Star Wars I: Phantom Menace - WTF?

[Dutch]

I watched it again last night for the first time since it game out....and I enjoyed it??? What's up with that? I hated that movie. Does that mean there is something wrong with me?

Jar-Jar was still goofy, to be sure, but not nearly as annoying as when watching it at the movies. I didn't want to reach through the screen and strangle him this time.

And Darth Maul was much spookier than I remember and cooler, maybe because he wasn't on the side of every single fast food drink cup for months prior to the last showing I watched.

I don't know, but it was a much better movie this time. I know that is a dissapointment for some people to hear, and I'm sort of freaked out that I liked it.

Strange.

[Suicane75]

Get the fuck out of my house mister!@!@@!!!!

[cthomer5000]

were you on any unauthrozied prescription medications?

[Tigercat]

I recently bought both prequels to watch before Sith, didn't like PM after watching it only once in the theatres but liked AOTCs enough. Anyway, I had the same reaction after watching PM again after 6 years, I actually enjoyed it this go around. I find Maul kind of interesting as a Sith, he seems almost too loyal for a Sith. Maybe he hasn't been an apprentice long enough to be ready to start disobeying his master.

[Suicane75]

6 years? Holy crap does time fly. That just threw me for a loop.

[Celeval]

What utterly ruined the movie for me was things like "Ooooh, no matter what system (galaxy?) you're from, that's gotta hurt!".

*sigh*

[Easy Mac]

meesuh think yousen guys es crazzzzzzzzzyyyyyyy

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

meesuh think yousen guys es crazzzzzzzzzyyyyyyy

I wish fozie was here to Keeel you now.

[Easy Mac]

So, does anyone know what happened to the dual-edged light saber? I know DM's was destroyed, but surely in the 35-40 years between 1 and 6, someone whould have thought to make another one. Or am I just thinking too much about a series that prominently involved small furry Shorty's?

[Buzzbee]

You probably liked the Phantom Menace more because you have now seen Attack of the Clones and can compare PM to total crap, making PM look better than it really is.

[Tigercat]

Well according to KOTOR, double bladers are almost exclusively used by the Sith because to use one requires more chaotic techniques of fighting and battle. To illustrate the difference between that just look at when Qui Gon(sp?) and Maul are facing off seperated by the force field. Maul with intensity and aggression on his face towards his opponent and Qui Gon meditating and focusing inward. Apparently its much easier to focus inward on technique with one blade than when you have two blades sticking out. So perhaps if there were more Sith around one would see more double bladers, because supposedly they have been around for forever as well. Of course the real explanation is they are only needed when you want to make an character bad-ass.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I watched it again last night for the first time since it game out....and I enjoyed it??? What's up with that? I hated that movie. Does that mean there is something wrong with me?

Well, I think you know what my answer would be.

Yeah, that film is an absolute steaming pantload.

[ice4277]

Maybe they just couldn't find a way to do properly do the double-sided lightsabaer effect in IV-VI?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I watched it again last night for the first time since it game out....and I enjoyed it??? What's up with that? I hated that movie. Does that mean there is something wrong with me?

Jar-Jar was still goofy, to be sure, but not nearly as annoying as when watching it at the movies. I didn't want to reach through the screen and strangle him this time.

And Darth Maul was much spookier than I remember and cooler, maybe because he wasn't on the side of every single fast food drink cup for months prior to the last showing I watched.

I don't know, but it was a much better movie this time. I know that is a dissapointment for some people to hear, and I'm sort of freaked out that I liked it.

Strange.

This is what I have been saying for years. If you go into the 2nd or 3rd time watching it with an open mind it is actually a pretty good moving. ATOC was the only movie that got worse the more I watched it.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

This is what I have been saying for years. If you go into the 2nd or 3rd time watching it with an open mind it is actually a pretty good moving. ATOC was the only movie that got worse the more I watched it.

The only time I've seen it is on video, twice, and I disagree. Horrible wooden acting, written for 8 year olds, overreliance on special effects, I could go on and on. None of that gets better with age. If the title wasn't "Star Wars," it would be just another two star action movie on TNT that no one remembers.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The only time I've seen it is on video, twice, and I disagree. Horrible wooden acting, written for 8 year olds, overreliance on special effects, I could go on and on. None of that gets better with age. If the title wasn't "Star Wars," it would be just another two star action movie on TNT that no one remembers.

OK, aside from Portman, who could have been replaced by a board, who gave a poor performance? I thought if anything some of the actors seemed snooty, which fits into my idea of the people in a failing Republic or Empire.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

OK, aside from Portman, who could have been replaced by a board, who gave a poor performance? I thought if anything some of the actors seemed snooty, which fits into my idea of the people in a failing Republic or Empire.

Anakin's wooden mom, Samuel "Wooden" Jackson, the wooden kid playing Anakin, all of the wooden Naboo guards and maids. Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor were okay, probably a victim of their lines, but you never felt like they were taking anything seriously. Like it was all one big joke, ruining the atmosphere for me. Maybe that's bad directing, versus bad acting. It's like oh, here's a bunch of robots we have to kill, let's drop one liners and smile the whole time. They tried to replicate the humor from the first trilogy, but missed the mark.

A better question would be, "who was a good actor in the movie?" I'd say the Senator, and that's it.

[Pyser]

thats star wars in a nutshell. any episode. it seems kind of pointless to start complaining about the acting now.

[Desnudo]

I liked the acting, for the most part, in the first trilogy.

[bigphesta]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The only time I've seen it is on video, twice, and I disagree. Horrible wooden acting, written for 8 year olds, overreliance on special effects, I could go on and on. None of that gets better with age. If the title wasn't "Star Wars," it would be just another two star action movie on TNT that no one remembers.

Obviously you don't get it as that is EXACTLY what your parents said 20 years ago when you watched ANH for the first time. The movie is made to suck in 8 year olds, not 20 yr olds - cause your parents are not shelling out 7.99 per action figure and you don't need to have them all - but my brother is shelling out that for each one of the new trilogy figures because EIGHT YEAR OLDS LOVE IT.

[MJ4H]

The soundtrack from phantom menace is so much better than the soundtrack from att ack of the clones, it is quite surprising. Not that this has anything to do with anything, but I thought I would mention it. I absolutely love the soundtrack from PM. AOTC has one good new theme, and the rest is just filler or rehashed old stuff. PM has probably 10 good new themes, maybe more.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by bigphesta

Obviously you don't get it as that is EXACTLY what your parents said 20 years ago when you watched ANH for the first time. The movie is made to suck in 8 year olds, not 20 yr olds - cause your parents are not shelling out 7.99 per action figure and you don't need to have them all - but my brother is shelling out that for each one of the new trilogy figures because EIGHT YEAR OLDS LOVE IT.

A gross oversimplification. Mark Hamill isn't a great actor, but he was far more tolerable as a pouting teenager in A New Hope than Hayden Christensen in Attack Of The Clones. Harrison Ford was perfect as the cynical, wise-cracking Han Solo. Alec Guiness was outstanding as always. Carrie Fisher brought a lot more spunk and life to her character than Natalie Portman.

In addition, the script and story are superior in A New Hope and Empire Strikes Back than either of the 2 prequels. And there was nothing as grating in the first 3 movies as the stupid announcers in the race sequence.

Giving a physical description of the Force and how it works was a horrible decision; the storyline for Phantom Menace was nowhere near as compelling as the first 3 movies; the borderline racially offensive characters like Jar-Jar and Watto were poor decisions; etc.

Yes, both sets of movies were aimed at being crowd-pleasers and appealing to 8-year olds and the 8-year old in all of us, but one set did it much better.

I should note that the downturn really was Return Of The Jedi - that was a big letdown from A New Hope and The Empire Strikes Back.

As for the original post, I guess my reaction would be that it's a great example of how expectations affect perception of quality. Going in to that movie originally, we all had very high expectations. Now, after so many years and so much criticism of it, your expectations were likely far lower, and thus easier to surpass. It's not a horrible movie per se - it's just that it doesn't live up to the originals.

[Coop]

I met Darth Maul (Ray Park), he was a nice guy. BTW all of the star wars movies were garbage besides ESB

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

The soundtrack from phantom menace is so much better than the soundtrack from att ack of the clones, it is quite surprising. Not that this has anything to do with anything, but I thought I would mention it. I absolutely love the soundtrack from PM. AOTC has one good new theme, and the rest is just filler or rehashed old stuff. PM has probably 10 good new themes, maybe more.

Hmm. MJ4H, what's your opinion of the soundtracks from ANH -> ESB -> RotJ? I wonder if there isn't some likelihood, that your opinion would be the same on the three soundtracks..

[cthomer5000]

Once again, those who claim these are on par with the original trilogy are full of shit.

Jedi has some issues, but even being the worst of the original 3, it's light years better than these recent steaming piles of crap.

[Neuqua]

I never minded the first two Star Wars movies because I figured that honestly no matter how good they were there were going to be there was no way they'd live up to the hype. If you go in to the theater expecting just to relax for a few hours n watch a 6 part story slowly be put together, it's a more enjoyable experience.

Darth Maul is actually my favorite villain from the series. Watching him fight with the dual light sabers was as exciting as it can get for a Star Wars fan.

[Dutch]

Okay, thanks to everybody that verified my lack of sanity. I was just making sure.

I think the lack of hype definately allowed me to see the movie in a different light.

Also, Darth Maul was definately a great SW villian and very good with that double edge saber. Vader still takes the cake however because he has (had?) the James Earl Jones voice and the heavy breathing thing down to a science.

I know the commercialism of SWIII is through the roof right now and I am trying as hard as I can to ignore it so I can just go in and watch the movie without too much overdose on Vader before hand.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Suicane75

6 years? Holy crap does time fly. That just threw me for a loop.

That was one of the last movies my wife and I saw before we had kids and never returned to a theater (by ourselves, anyway), so that would be about right.

[JeffR]

Originally Posted by Dutch

Also, Darth Maul was definately a great SW villian

Darth Vader is a great villain. You know that a half-hour into ANH; he's so bad he strangles other bad guys with his mind, and then he blows up an entire planet. And he only gets more interesting as Episodes 4-6 progress.

Darth Maul is eye-candy. He looks cool, and has a couple of neat fight sequences, but he contributes nothing to the story. He's the evil version of an ewok, just there for the merchandise possibilities.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by JeffR

Darth Vader is a great villain. You know that a half-hour into ANH; he's so bad he strangles other bad guys with his mind, and then he blows up an entire planet. And he only gets more interesting as Episodes 4-6 progress.

Darth Maul is eye-candy. He looks cool, and has a couple of neat fight sequences, but he contributes nothing to the story. He's the evil version of an ewok, just there for the merchandise possibilities.

Agreed. Darth Maul had two lines.

[Neuqua]

Well obviously Vader is the premiere villain in arguably any movie, I just enjoyed watching Maul's pure aggresion and quickness in his lightsaber duels. I kind of wish that he had more screen time. Dooku was a bore.

[MJ4H]

Originally Posted by finkenst

Hmm. MJ4H, what's your opinion of the soundtracks from ANH -> ESB -> RotJ? I wonder if there isn't some likelihood, that your opinion would be the same on the three soundtracks..

ANH soundtrack was great obviously. ESB and RotJ contribute a lot of new themes and are outstanding in their own right. They do not suffer the same drop in quality as the one from PM to AoTC. AoTC by far the worst in the whole series, in my opinion (which differs from some critics' opinions, as I've read some startingly good reviews from people I otherwise normally agree with).

[Easy Mac]

So is Dooku a Sith as well?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Dutch

I think the lack of hype definately allowed me to see the movie in a different light.

Yep... lack of positive pre-movie hype and lack of negative fandriven hype. I know people who say TPM said it was ok and then later, after all the bashing, started saying it was the worst movie ever... WTF?

If you take all the good and bad hype out of it and just watch it without preconception, it isn't a culture destroying film as portrayed to be.

And you find all the complaints about how horrid the acting is to be assinine, especially if you watch them after watching the Star Wars DVDs. The same crap acting is in the first three.

[Easy Mac]

I'd say the writing was a little better in the first trilogy. It had a little more snappiness to it. Add poor writing with poor acting, and its just poor. That, and having George Lucas tell you that the force is really just a bunch of little molecules kind of takes the fun out of it.

[Schmidty]

If PM and ATOC had been written in the same way that the "Silmarillion" was - as history, then it might have been more interesting. Jake What's-his-face is the WORST child actor ever and totally ruined the movie for me. The only people I liked in PM were Liam Neeson, Ian McDiarmid, and Frank Oz (he's pure). Everyone else was horrid. Terribly long pauses before interruptions, unexpressive faces, lack of real earthy humor.........yuck. Just awful.

But i still hold out hope for RotS.

[Chubby]

the problem with the prequels is you already knew what would happen. any twists would be (and are) lame. Fans have been waiting for III all along, not a pod racing 8 yr old or a love story.

personally, I and II should have been I. Sith should have been II and III should have been about the Jedi Purge which would have led into IV more naturally IMO.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And you find all the complaints about how horrid the acting is to be assinine, especially if you watch them after watching the Star Wars DVDs. The same crap acting is in the first three.

I totally disgree. I just watched the trilogy last week, and I found the acting to be campy, but good and fun (Harrison Ford, James Earl Jones, Carrie Fisher, etc.). Those movies were fun and breezy, but the new movies seems contrived and horribly forced. This is from a guy who likes movies that critics bash, such as "National Treasure". I NEVER trust critics and certainly never "follow" the crowd. Hell, I didn't even have internet access until 2001.

[CHEMICAL SOLDIER]

You brought this into my house?, Youre gonna go blind.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Anakin's wooden mom, Samuel "Wooden" Jackson, the wooden kid playing Anakin, all of the wooden Naboo guards and maids. Liam Neeson and Ewan McGregor were okay, probably a victim of their lines, but you never felt like they were taking anything seriously. Like it was all one big joke, ruining the atmosphere for me. Maybe that's bad directing, versus bad acting. It's like oh, here's a bunch of robots we have to kill, let's drop one liners and smile the whole time. They tried to replicate the humor from the first trilogy, but missed the mark.

A better question would be, "who was a good actor in the movie?" I'd say the Senator, and that's it.

I'm coming in late to the party, but I think the semi-seriousness of Neeson and McGregor is very intentional. At this point in the movie, everything is going great for the good guys. The galaxy has been pretty peaceful, the Jedi are the ultimate power, and life is good. There is no sense of struggle because there is no struggle. Any scrape the Jedi get into is a joke because there is nothing they can't handle. As the movies go on, everybody realizes that they aren't as well off as they think.

[Suicane75]

Originally Posted by Chubby

the problem with the prequels is you already knew what would happen. any twists would be (and are) lame. Fans have been waiting for III all along, not a pod racing 8 yr old or a love story.

personally, I and II should have been I. Sith should have been II and III should have been about the Jedi Purge which would have led into IV more naturally IMO.

I very much agree that the movies should of been condensed when it came to the stories covered in the first 2 and elongated in the story of EP 3.

In my opinion you could have covered the first 2 movies in 1 by eliminating the fluff and crap, and the final battle, which looks amazing, stretched out over the final 2 installments.

[Pyser]

i found the lucas interview in entertainment weekly amazing.

he basically says that he had stuff vaguel sketched out in his mind for the prequels...and of that, 60% was for episode 3. meaning he had only 40% of a story left for episodes 1 and 2, or 20% each.

that, to me, is incredibly telling. he says he filled up the rest with stuff he just thought was cool.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

That was one of the last movies my wife and I saw before we had kids and never returned to a theater (by ourselves, anyway), so that would be about right.

You know, I think that may have been the last movie my wife and I saw by ourselves too.

(still haven't seen AoTC)

[finkenst]

Originally Posted by Chubby

the problem with the prequels is you already knew what would happen. any twists would be (and are) lame. Fans have been waiting for III all along, not a pod racing 8 yr old or a love story.

personally, I and II should have been I. Sith should have been II and III should have been about the Jedi Purge which would have led into IV more naturally IMO.

with an interlude of 16-22 years (however old the twins were)...

also, it would seem that the empire had it great and things were wonderful for them until the twins matured...

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I'm coming in late to the party, but I think the semi-seriousness of Neeson and McGregor is very intentional. At this point in the movie, everything is going great for the good guys. The galaxy has been pretty peaceful, the Jedi are the ultimate power, and life is good. There is no sense of struggle because there is no struggle. Any scrape the Jedi get into is a joke because there is nothing they can't handle. As the movies go on, everybody realizes that they aren't as well off as they think.

I think you're seeing what you want to see there. I just saw either bad acting, bad lines, or both.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I totally disgree. I just watched the trilogy last week, and I found the acting to be campy, but good and fun (Harrison Ford, James Earl Jones, Carrie Fisher, etc.). Those movies were fun and breezy, but the new movies seems contrived and horribly forced. This is from a guy who likes movies that critics bash, such as "National Treasure". I NEVER trust critics and certainly never "follow" the crowd. Hell, I didn't even have internet access until 2001.

The difference for me has always been that I felt like I was watching Han Solo, or Princess Leia, or whoever. In the second set, I felt like was watching actors playing the role of the various characters. Like I think of Princess Leia as Princess Leia, but I think of Princess Amald... as Natalie Portman, when watching the movies.

[Sharpieman]

I'm watchign it right now...its not as bad as when I first saw it, but still bad.

[Neuqua]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The difference for me has always been that I felt like I was watching Han Solo, or Princess Leia, or whoever. In the second set, I felt like was watching actors playing the role of the various characters. Like I think of Princess Leia as Princess Leia, but I think of Princess Amald... as Natalie Portman, when watching the movies.

Well, how old were you when you first watched the originals? It's easier to think what you are watching on the screen is really happening when you are young and your imaginations are running wild. You know better when you are an adult though.

[sabotai]

The two things that really annoy me about TPM are Jar Jar and the Droids. I mean, the droids are like mechanical Jar Jars. "Roger Roger!". WTF!? Every wsingel driod giving out orders is named Roger!?

Lucas was trying way too hard in TPM to draw in the younger audience and just annoyed the older audience.

However, armed with the ability to tune that stuff out, I don't find TPM to be all that bad. I also think AOTC was better (armed with the ability to tune out Anakin's super cheesy pick up lines).

I'm only talking about the entertainment value of the movies. Lucas, however, has destroyed my interest in the Star Wars universe with his constant "tieing in"s. (Anakin built C-3P0, Anakin had R2D2 in his ship when fighting, Anakin meets the people that Obi-Wan hides Luke with.....Anakin must have smoked a lot of doped to not remember the droids or people he has met and BUILT HIMSELF!....*sigh*)

[Coder]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I'm only talking about the entertainment value of the movies. Lucas, however, has destroyed my interest in the Star Wars universe with his constant "tieing in"s. (Anakin built C-3P0, Anakin had R2D2 in his ship when fighting, Anakin meets the people that Obi-Wan hides Luke with.....Anakin must have smoked a lot of doped to not remember the droids or people he has met and BUILT HIMSELF!....*sigh*)

See.. i was sitting here, reading this thread, actually started thinking that "hey, maybe I should give the movie another shot".. then you reminded me.. thanks Sab... I almost went out and bought TPM, but you saved me. I HATE THE TIE-INS. I also can't stand movies where little kids are the central characters.. out with them.. throw them in the garbage.