OOTP 6.5 Expansion Pack Announced

[Ben E Lou]

The OOTP 6.5 Expansion Pack Available mid June for just $9.95!

Welcome to the Out of the Park Baseball 6.5 Expansion Pack! The Expansion Pack offers new features, extensive tweaks and modifications, resulting in the most realistic and enjoyable version of OOTP ever. It will be available for $9.95 in mid June and requires a valid license of OOTP 6 installed in order to work. OOTP 6.5 is backwards compatible, meaning that OOTP 6.12 league files automatically convert to 6.5 format when loading. League files created in 6.5 work with OOTP 6.12 as well. However, team exports from 6.5 are not compatible with OOTP 6.12, so online leagues require all members to run the same version. Let's get into the details of the Expansion Pack. Here are the new features and tweaks of 6.5, explained a little bit deeper.

AI-related features

New player evaluation algorythms The core of the AI in a baseball game is it's player evaluation algorythm. We have used modern reasearch and player evaluation concepts (i.e. value over replacement players) in order to rework the player evaluation in OOTP 6.5, resulting in smarter AI throughout the game. This influences trades, signings and basic roster AI, for example lineups or pitching staff settings. Smarter roster handling AI The new roster handling AI does not only benefit from the new player evaluation, it was almost completely reworked and now feels more realistic, resulting in less waiver moves and a better understanding of the roster structure. New team focus In previous versions, teams did not really understand their position in the league and therefore did not adjust their free agent signings or trades to the state of the organization. Now teams have a focus, which is either 'normal', 'win now' or 'rebuild'. This focus influences the trading as well as roster AI. Teams which are rebuilding may give their rookies more playing time and may trade ageing players when they are out of the pennant race early in the season. 'Win now'-teams may trade a prospect or two in order to get an established player for the final push for the playoffs. Player popularity Players now have a national and local popularity rating, which has impact on the team if the player leaves or gets added to it. If you sign a very popular superstar, your fan interest may get a boost. But if you trade one of your most popular local players, fans may may be upset and stay home. Modified player development algorythms Player development is also one of the most important parts of a career baseball game. We have further enhanced the algorythms of OOTP so that the game now offers even more variation in career curves and more realism overall.

Online league features

7-day lineup screen Users now have the chance to set their lineups for the following 7 days. This is especially useful for online leagues play but also offers a new way to handle lineups/depth charts for solo players. The screen displays the projected opposing starting pitchers and offers some options, for example you may allow the AI to insert utility starters into your lineups. The 7-day lineups are included in the team export files used for online leagues.

Trading of draft picks It is now possible for a league in online league mode to allow the trading of draft picks. Picks received via trades may be traded again.

Historical league features

Base talent ratings on peak seasons So far the game only allowed you to base player talent ratings on the entire career or the remaining career when you imported players/seasons from the Lahman Database. OOTP 6.5 allows you to base the talent ratings on peak seasons of the player's career, resulting in more realistic career curves. Fielding ratings may be based on career fielding stats The subject says it all, you can now use the career fielding statistics of a player as the base for his fielding ratings.

Game management features

Visit the mound option Instead of a pitcher turning immediately red when tiring, you may now visit the mound and ask the pitcher how he feels. We reworked the in-game fatigue system for this feature so that the performance drop due to fatigue is more realistic. Option to reduce foul balls in the PbP A lot of OOTP users have been complaining for the amount of foul balls that get mentioned in the play-by-play. We have now added the option to only display the foul balls where close plays are involved. Enhanced play-by-play We have added some more basic plays to the game engine, for example errors on dropped foul balls or players colliding in the field. Better pinch-hitting and pitcher change AI The quest for the perfect in-game AI continues, as we have improved the pinch-hitting and pitching change AI.

New Screens

Milestone Watch screen Ever wondered who in your league is close to a milestone? The new screen lists all players who are close to an important mile stone - for example his 500th career homerun or win number 200!

Projected Stats screen This new screen lists the leaders of projected season total stats in several categories. It's the perfect place to check if someone in the league is on pace to breaking a record or a personal career high, like 200 hits in a season.

Other new features or enhancements

Added the option to prevent computer teams to adjust their own strategy setting (interesting for historical leagues) Players now have projected stats listed in their player stats page Added projected stats and milestone watch reports to league website Relievers may win the pitching award in rare cases The MVP selecting algorythm has been redesigned Japanese and defected Cuban players entering the league before free-agency In-Season retirements now happen from time to time Players now sometimes come out of retirement and start a comeback Off-season and spring training injuries have been added A complete new skin is also included, as well as a fictional data update We believe these enhancements truly improve the gaming experience of Out of the Park Baseball! Markus Heinsohn CEO Out of the Park Developments

[Ben E Lou]

I've been helping with some beta versions of the expansion. It is quite nice so far.

[Crapshoot]

Blimey. Any thoughts on the development algorithms (assuming you've run your test leagues already .. )

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Blimey. Any thoughts on the development algorithms (assuming you've run your test leagues already .. )

Things are looking better and better. Hopefully, by the time it is released, I won't be using any development modifiers in order to get a good league. I've definitely noticed more varied development. Plus, stuff like this is just danged cool:

areer Pitching Stats

Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER HR BB K CG SHO WHIP Teams 2005 37 37 14 11 0 3.43 223.0 164 90 85 18 89 312 0 0 1.13 OAK 2006 36 36 14 8 0 2.98 229.1 154 79 76 22 105 331 2 2 1.13 OAK 2007 37 37 21 7 0 2.54 244.2 164 77 69 21 91 350 0 0 1.04 OAK,L1 2008 31 31 8 10 0 2.84 199.2 132 76 63 16 73 267 1 0 1.03 OAK 2009 37 37 19 9 0 3.38 242.2 187 94 91 29 89 319 0 0 1.14 OAK,L1 2010 31 31 15 6 0 3.34 202.0 145 79 75 22 91 263 0 0 1.17 OAK 2011 37 37 20 7 0 2.97 242.1 159 83 80 23 96 310 1 1 1.05 OAK 2012 36 36 15 8 0 3.23 236.2 180 88 85 20 79 296 0 0 1.09 OAK,L1 2013 32 32 12 7 0 3.36 193.0 158 84 72 21 80 252 0 0 1.23 OAK 2014 36 36 14 16 0 4.51 221.2 201 120 111 27 103 258 0 0 1.37 OAK 2015 32 32 10 12 0 5.71 190.2 182 126 121 37 94 245 0 0 1.45 OAK 2016 29 29 6 17 0 5.69 159.2 157 106 101 27 77 201 0 0 1.47 OAK 2019 18 18 8 4 0 4.47 98.2 83 55 49 24 52 104 0 0 1.37 NY Total 429 429 176 122 0 3.61 2684.0 2066 1157 1078 307 1119 3508 4 3 1.19

Career Minor League Pitching Stats

Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO 2019, AAA 6 6 0 5 0 5.82 34.0 33 22 22 17 52 0 0 2020, AAA 21 21 5 7 0 4.64 130.0 112 68 67 56 176 0 0

Career Postseason Pitching Stats

Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO 2006 4 4 0 3 0 5.82 21.2 20 14 14 10 32 0 0 2007 3 3 1 1 0 1.33 20.1 8 4 3 5 32 0 0 2008 2 2 1 1 0 2.31 11.2 7 3 3 6 15 0 0 2009 3 3 1 0 0 3.12 17.1 13 6 6 8 27 0 0 2010 1 1 0 1 0 3.00 6.0 5 3 2 4 8 0 0 2011 1 1 0 1 0 0.00 5.1 2 1 0 4 9 0 0 Total 14 14 3 7 0 3.06 82.1 55 31 28 37 123 0 0

Career Batting Stats

Year G AB H 2B 3B HR RBI R BB K SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS Teams 2005 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2006 36 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2007 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK,L1 2008 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2009 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK,L1 2010 31 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2011 37 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2012 36 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK,L1 2013 32 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2014 36 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2015 32 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2016 29 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 .000 .000 .000 .000 OAK 2019 18 33 3 2 0 0 2 1 2 13 0 0 .091 .143 .152 .294 NY Total 429 33 3 2 0 0 2 1 2 13 0 0 .091 .143 .152 .294

Fielding Stats 2021

Position G GS PO A DP TC E PCT INN RANGE PB RSTA RTO RTO%

Player History

Drafted in 1st round, 12th overall pick, by Oakland in 2005... Earned first career win on 4/1/2005... Struck out 15 batters against Cleveland on 7/26/2005... Struck out 16 batters against Toronto on 6/8/2006... 8/1/2006: Signed a contract extension with Oakland, $9,610,000 per year, for 6 years. Pitched NO-HITTER against Chicago (A) on 10/5/2006, striking out 7... Struck out 15 batters against Baltimore on 4/21/2007... Was selected to the 2007 Allstar game... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 10/1/2007, going 3-0, 0.53... Won Outstanding Pitcher in 2007, going 21-7, 2.54 ERA... Injured on 6/7/2008 with a Torn Tricep Muscle, out for 5 weeks... Was selected to the 2009 Allstar game... Struck out 16 batters against Baltimore on 6/13/2010... Injured on 6/19/2010 with a Bone Chips Elbow, out for 5 weeks... Struck out 15 batters against Baltimore on 5/14/2012... Won Pitcher of the Month award on 6/1/2012, going 3-1, 1.24... Was selected to the 2012 Allstar game... 8/1/2012: Signed a contract extension with Oakland, $12,450,000 per year, for 4 years. Won Pitcher of the Month award on 9/1/2013, going 4-0, 0.59... 8/1/2016: Signed a contract extension with Oakland, $510,000 per year, for 2 years. Retired in 2017. Returns from retirement in 2019. Signed as a free agent by New York (N) on 2/10/2019 to a 2-year deal worth $2,273,600 per year... Had first career hit (double) on 4/9/2019, off Kory Agee (ATL)... Injured on 7/5/2019 with a Inflamed Elbow Ligament, out for one week... Injured on 8/19/2019 with a Herniated Disc Back, out for 6 weeks... Released by New York (N) on 4/19/2020... Signed as a free agent by Chicago (A) on 4/26/2020 to a minor league contract... Released by Chicago (A) on 8/9/2020... Retired in 2021.

[miked]

Why bring back a player after 2 seasons when he's obviously crapped out in 2017. Do their ratings stay the same or do they get bumped back up. Seems like an odd option.

[NoMyths]

Bah. This isn't an expansion, it's a patch that they're charging ten bucks for. Bastards all.

[kcchief19]

Looks like he was faring better in his comeback until the injury. I like that option if it's very limited in application. Now if we could just get rid of CEI and turn them into 12-24 month injuries ... CEI are so rare these days.

SD -- out of curiousity, how old was this guy when he retired and made his comeback? Was he a rookie in 2005 and pitched that well out of the box or was this a draft league?

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Bah. This isn't an expansion, it's a patch that they're charging ten bucks for. Bastards all.

I have a feeling that might be a common refrain.

[ThunderingHERD]

Does this mean not to expect OOTP7 any time soon?

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Bah. This isn't an expansion, it's a patch that they're charging ten bucks for. Bastards all.

If the features work as advertised, I'll gladly pay an extra $10 for all the enhancements. This goes well beyond a patch. Some companies would have changed the color scheme of the interface, called this a new version and charged $30 for it.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Things are looking better and better. Hopefully, by the time it is released, I won't be using any development modifiers in order to get a good league. I've definitely noticed more varied development. Plus, stuff like this is just danged cool:

I'm not sure - the idea that a pitcher could strike out so many in 245 in 190 innings and 201 in 159 innings and still have an ERA of 5.71 is pretty ridiculous - especially since his BB rate is not too high. He's prone to the HR, but that's a K/9 rate of greater than 11. The returning bit is cool, no doubt - but those numbers are worrysome. I don't know if you've been tracking the example of some of the issues with the way OOTP develops players- for example, test leagues have seen that 2b have on average, the same offensive performance as LF. More so, you see extreme groundballers who lead the league in HR, and what not. Do you know how much the DIPS engine was tweaked ?

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by ThunderingHERD

Does this mean not to expect OOTP7 any time soon?

Delayed until the Spring.

[MizzouRah]

Well, I'm thrilled. "If" these features are implemented well, it'll be like a new game to me. I'm really interested to hear from Skydog as he's testing things out. I don't want 6.5a, 6.5b, 6.5c, etc.. A good working 6.5 that has been tested and tested again and with the beta testers he has, I think it will be.

At least if something is goofy, SD will let us know. I'm totally enthralled with a fictional baseball universe now, so I hope we won't need any modifiers when creating an MLB style league. Heck, just a waivers system that works is worth $10.

I would like to know that on defaults, in 30 years everything is still believeable. The only thing I would change is the park factors from the default to the real ones used in the MLB.


Todd

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I'm not sure - the idea that a pitcher could strike out so many in 245 in 190 innings and 201 in 159 innings and still have an ERA of 5.71 is pretty ridiculous - especially since his BB rate is not too high. He's prone to the HR, but that's a K/9 rate of greater than 11. The returning bit is cool, no doubt - but those numbers are worrysome. I don't know if you've been tracking the example of some of the issues with the way OOTP develops players- for example, test leagues have seen that 2b have on average, the same offensive performance as LF. More so, you see extreme groundballers who lead the league in HR, and what not. Do you know how much the DIPS engine was tweaked ?

I don't care terribly much at this point about stats. Markus tweaks those very, very easily. This particular guy, fyi, was highly ununusual in that his stuff was in th 80's, but control and movement were in the 30's. Just a matter of reminding him to make those guys more rare, which, I've learned, is one of the easier things for him to do.

[Marmel]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Bah. This isn't an expansion, it's a patch that they're charging ten bucks for. Bastards all.

That was my initial reaction too, but I think there is enough new stuff rather than fixes to justify the price. But with the game going for what...30 bucks? a 33% price tag of $10 seems a little high.

[stevew]

Version 6 wasn't that dramatic of an upgrade from 5, at least to me. Good to see that they are continuing the trend, and still charging. Since the game is still useless for solo play to me, ill only buy this if the league im in upgrades.

[stevew]

Draft pick trading is a welcome feature tho. Too bad free agent compensation didnt make it in.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I'm not sure - the idea that a pitcher could strike out so many in 245 in 190 innings and 201 in 159 innings and still have an ERA of 5.71 is pretty ridiculous - especially since his BB rate is not too high. He's prone to the HR, but that's a K/9 rate of greater than 11. The returning bit is cool, no doubt - but those numbers are worrysome. I don't know if you've been tracking the example of some of the issues with the way OOTP develops players- for example, test leagues have seen that 2b have on average, the same offensive performance as LF. More so, you see extreme groundballers who lead the league in HR, and what not. Do you know how much the DIPS engine was tweaked ?

I agree this is pretty bad. His 2015 BABIP is really freakin high at .308. It seems like the game may abandon the DIPS model for players at the end of the career. Instead of a decrease in K's, a decrease in IP's (due to injury), increase in BB's, or an increase in HR's, it just cranks up the BABIP. Hopefully, the player above is the extreme anamoly (but he did repeat the high BABIP for 2016 which makes me think the design is intentional). If he isn't, then I think this is another reason I won't give OOTP another shot.

SD expresses optimism that Markus can just tweak the stats, but after years of OOTP, I know that is one thing that his "tweaks" never seem to fix right.

Baseball Mogul may not get everything right, but at least it is "fun" to play. OOTP has a horrible interface, inefficient access of information, and strange design decisions. For the single player experience, I've just found it lacking year in and year out. I'm hopeful the merger with SI will help (although I find the CM interface pretty clunky too), but I don't think I'll be paying $10 for this patch/update.

[Coffee Warlord]

Originally Posted by stevew

Since the game is still useless for solo play to me

I haven't followed OOTP6 in awhile. Kindly (re)explain.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Marmel

That was my initial reaction too, but I think there is enough new stuff rather than fixes to justify the price. But with the game going for what...30 bucks? a 33% price tag of $10 seems a little high.

I just bought it for $19.95, so it's actually a 50% price tag. As long as it will let me sign free agents without crashing in the DKBL, I'm more than willing to bring my total cost up to $30.

[Zippo]

Originally Posted by stevew

Version 6 wasn't that dramatic of an upgrade from 5, at least to me. Good to see that they are continuing the trend, and still charging. Since the game is still useless for solo play to me, ill only buy this if the league im in upgrades.

agreed.

[MizzouRah]

Baseball Mogul may not get everything right, but at least it is "fun" to play. OOTP has a horrible interface, inefficient access of information, and strange design decisions. For the single player experience, I've just found it lacking year in and year out. I'm hopeful the merger with SI will help (although I find the CM interface pretty clunky too), but I don't think I'll be paying $10 for this patch/update.

To each his own, but bbmogul isn't even close on ANY account, let alone mentioning it in the same breath as ootp - my opinion of course. I guess I'm used to the interface in OOTP, but I'm worried going to the SI interface because I just can't get used to it thus far with games like EHM.


Todd

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I don't care terribly much at this point about stats. Markus tweaks those very, very easily. This particular guy, fyi, was highly ununusual in that his stuff was in th 80's, but control and movement were in the 30's. Just a matter of reminding him to make those guys more rare, which, I've learned, is one of the easier things for him to do.

Yeah, I guess my issue is more along the lines with how those are generated - while yours are with the end results seeming logical. OOTP tends to generate a lot of high power low doubles hitters, and pitchers like this- which really don't exist. My worry is the development algorithm does not take into account that things go together. In fact, now that I think, I would hard pressed to think of a major league comp for those last two years.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by stevew

Version 6 wasn't that dramatic of an upgrade from 5, at least to me. Good to see that they are continuing the trend, and still charging. Since the game is still useless for solo play to me, ill only buy this if the league im in upgrades.

Meh- the DIPS engine was the shift that in theory at least finally moved OOTP to real baseball - biggest shift in the OOTP iterations, in total. Huge, huge upgrade.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Meh- the DIPS engine was the shift that in theory at least finally moved OOTP to real baseball - biggest shift in the OOTP iterations, in total. Huge, huge upgrade.

Yes, but does it work. It still seems irrational, for the reasons you mentioned, lack of doubles, etc. And still how you can have players with extreme K to BB ratios who hit for a high average. Stuff like that.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yes, but does it work. It still seems irrational, for the reasons you mentioned, lack of doubles, etc. And still how you can have players with extreme K to BB ratios who hit for a high average. Stuff like that.

That's an entirely reasonable complaint, which is why the player SkyDog cited bothers me so much. I truthfully would be happy if 7 just had a fixed engine, and had all the features from 6 fixed - before trying to introduce new ones that cause their own problems (waivers, or waiver trading after July 31 anyone ? ) ?

[Zippo]

Did anybody realize that even though there are numerous added new features, we are still required to pay for the tweaks and fixes for version 6. I don't really care for the new features, I can wait for all that in version 7, I just want the fixes for version 6 right now. Not that it's a big deal, it is only 10 bucks but I had to vent.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

To each his own, but bbmogul isn't even close on ANY account, let alone mentioning it in the same breath as ootp - my opinion of course. I guess I'm used to the interface in OOTP, but I'm worried going to the SI interface because I just can't get used to it thus far with games like EHM.


Todd

The new version of BM seems to be better at player development, most stat categories, and aging. I gave up on BM a while ago (after loving the first couple versions), so hopefully OOTP will surprise me one day too. For now, though, it seems to keep repeating the same bad things while adding a few neat bells and whistles. And that is frustrating.

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

If the features work as advertised, I'll gladly pay an extra $10 for all the enhancements. This goes well beyond a patch. Some companies would have changed the color scheme of the interface, called this a new version and charged $30 for it.

i'm such an ootp fanboy, i'd pay $10 for even just a minor patch.

[Schmidty]

Man, people will bitch and complain about anything.

I think the expansion sounds cool. I spent more on pizza last night, so $10 for this seems worth it to me.

[maximus]

This is awesome. Great news.

[Radii]

There are AI improvements mentioned and I really believe those should go in a free 6.x patch and no one should be required to pay for them.

Some of the other enhancements sound like they could be real nice though and I have no problem paying $10 for them, but will only do so if any of the leagues i'm in upgrade.

[maximus]

Has it been mentioed if OOTP6 leagues will work with 6.5? (sorry if I missed it).

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Man, people will bitch and complain about anything.

I agree. I mean, you just bitched and complained about some folks saying a product wasn't worth its price.

If this patch had been released gratis, you wouldn't have seen the same concerns.

[GoldenEagle]

This goes to show why I will continue to support Jim Gindin. He updates not one, but two games. He does not charge a dime. OOTP updates the product and charges $10. I am not saying I am not going to buy it. I am just pointing that out. If I only had money to buy a new product from either company, it would be a no brainer.

[Eaglesfan27]

I agree with Todd (and a few others) if these features work as promised, this will reinvigorate this game for me. I don't have a problem with 10 dollars being charged for signifcant upgrades to the AI which I suspect took a fair amount of time to implement. However, I'll be quite annoyed if these features don't work and/or don't get supported to work very well after I've paid my 10 additional dollars.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by maximus

Has it been mentioed if OOTP6 leagues will work with 6.5? (sorry if I missed it).

Yes

Originally Posted by Skydog

OOTP 6.5 is backwards compatible, meaning that OOTP 6.12 league files automatically convert to 6.5 format when loading. League files created in 6.5 work with OOTP 6.12 as well. However, team exports from 6.5 are not compatible with OOTP 6.12, so online leagues require all members to run the same version.

[maximus]

DOH! Thanks. Reading to fast never helps.

[jbmagic]

i hope the beta tester are testing the hell out of 6.5. they really need us FOFC members to test it and give our opinions. at least FOFC members are not fanboys and will give there fair opinion.

i hope markus support 6.5 with future patches.

i remember him saying that 6.12 was the last patch because he wanted to concentrate on ootp 7. so that my concern if he will do future patches for 6.5

[Zippo]

Originally Posted by Markus Heinsohn
Some random thoughts:
- OOTP 6.5 is basically the new OOTP version for 2005, but got called an expansion pack because I felt charging $29.95 for it (like we would have if we had released it in April) wasn't really appropriate. Other companies charge you $40 for a new version that only offers half the amount of new features that OOTP 6.5 has. At least I often get that feeling
- OOTP:SI got pushed back because we all (finally) felt it would make absolutely no sense to release a baseball game when the season has just finished. This move also gave me time to a) finish 6.5 and b) make OOTP 7 even better.
- OOTP 6.5 will be treated like any other release, meaning that it will be supported and patched.
- I am looking into the possibility of using 6.12 team exports in a 6.5 online league. Maybe I can pull it off.

That makes sense to me, I will stop my bitching now.

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yes, but does it work. It still seems irrational, for the reasons you mentioned, lack of doubles, etc. And still how you can have players with extreme K to BB ratios who hit for a high average. Stuff like that.

I can vouch for Markus that the DIPS engine is dead-on. The issue you and others may have is within the player creation engine.

Also - players with extreme K to BB ratios who hit for high average occurs much more often than you think. Intuitively, you would think that batters behave just like pitchers (high K to BB = low average) but it's just not the case.

[Subby]

As long as the CLUTCH rating is still in there, it's ALL GOOD!!!!!!

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I can vouch for Markus that the DIPS engine is dead-on. The issue you and others may have is within the player creation engine.

Also - players with extreme K to BB ratios who hit for high average occurs much more often than you think. Intuitively, you would think that batters behave just like pitchers (high K to BB = low average) but it's just not the case.

Hey Craig, what do you think of the player SD posted earlier (and my reply)? It seems to me, if that player is at all normal), Markus is aging pitchers by removing DIPS (and ridiculously inflating their BABIP). The K, HR, and BB rates stay the same, but pitchers become bad because of BABIP. I remembered that from 6 and it seems to still be a problem in 6.5

[CraigSca]

Actually, looking at that admittedly small data sample, the pitcher's K/PA ratio decreased as he got older and his HR/PA ratio almost doubled during his last three years. While I admit that the pitcher's BABIP is above .300 those final years, I'm not sure if that's intentional or if it's purely random.

I know the framework of the decision-making surrounding player development, but I was never privy to the exact process - what's effected/what timeframe, etc.

Personally, considering the limited data at the time (and I may have mentioned this to Markus, I forget) I had kept BABIP in the .290 range for pitchers (I think that was the exact number - I'd have to check my notes) and from what I remember it he kept that figure as a static as well. The only things that would change over the course of a player's career would be his K, W, HR ratios.

This is over a year ago, so this is admittedly foggy, and our conversations were pretty much all over the place trying to get in as much as he could before release day.

IMHO, I would keep a pitcher's BABIP pretty static over his career (with VERY slight differentiation for each pitcher for some added randomness) - but I THINK that's what OOTP does.

[sabotai]

Just to throw this out, I LOVE those Milestone Watch and Projected Stats screens. I might restart my historic recreation after this is released.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by CraigSca

I can vouch for Markus that the DIPS engine is dead-on. The issue you and others may have is within the player creation engine.

Also - players with extreme K to BB ratios who hit for high average occurs much more often than you think. Intuitively, you would think that batters behave just like pitchers (high K to BB = low average) but it's just not the case.

I beg to differ- by his own admission, Markus had said that GB/FB ratios are not linked in anyway to HR allowed, which is patently ridiculous - there's a fairly clear relationship there. One of the things that bothers me is that this wasn't even addressed or discussed in this patch.

[jbmagic]

here one guy opinion on 6.5 Expansion at OOTP forum

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...&postcount=240

[CraigSca]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I beg to differ- by his own admission, Markus had said that GB/FB ratios are not linked in anyway to HR allowed, which is patently ridiculous - there's a fairly clear relationship there. One of the things that bothers me is that this wasn't even addressed or discussed in this patch.

Correct - but that wasn't part of the DIPS implementation. The change in the engine focused on taking these supposedly disparate attributes (HA, BA Against, W, K, HR) and making sense of them. Really, DIPS was all about making pitching statistics correct at a micro level (as opposed to the previous macro level)

I'm hoping in the new version GB/FB ratios are taken into account more often in the game engine. In fact, I believe it will. Sometimes there are decisions made early in a process (OOTP 1) that force new research to be retrofitted (or tacked on) when the engine itself and the data structures surrounding them really need to be started from scratch. I'm hopeful that the complete re-write process for OOTP 7 will allow Markus to do just that.

[jbmagic]

wasnt ootp 6 a new engine too ?

[lighthousekeeper]

Originally Posted by jbmagic

here one guy opinion on 6.5 Expansion at OOTP forum

http://www.ootpdevelopments.com/boar...&postcount=240

Quote from this guy's post:
Yet an "expansion" is now slated to be released that has to be paid for and we say this is fine?


I love this line, as if Markus put code in 6.12 to have it self-destruct if people didn't purchas the upgrade.