Rod Gardner to Panthers

Easy Mac · 07-27-2005, 07:52 PM

Didn't see this one coming.
Roundup

Redskins send wideout Gardner to Panthers for pick

Posted: Wednesday July 27, 2005 8:33PM; Updated: Wednesday July 27, 2005 8:33PM

CHARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- The Carolina Panthers may have found a replacement for Muhsin Muhammad on Wednesday, acquiring wide receiver Rod Gardner from the Washington Redskins.

The deal is contingent upon Gardner passing a physical Thursday in Charlotte, Panthers general manager Marty Hurney said.

Carolina did not say what it traded for Gardner.

Gardner, 27, started all 16 games in each of his four seasons in Washington, making 227 receptions for 2,997 yards and 22 touchdowns. His best season came in 2002 with 71 receptions for 1,006 yards and eight touchdowns.

But Gardner's four seasons have been marked by inconsistency. He had a habit of following big games with many small ones. For example, after catching 10 passes for 167 yards in a game against Dallas early in 2004, he did not surpass 100 yards for another 11 games.

The 6-foot-2, 213-pound Gardner didn't like his role in the offense and he caught only 51 passes for 650 yards and five touchdowns in 2004. Washington's coaches did not seem to fight Gardner's request for a trade.

The Redskins were expected to release Gardner anyway to free up more than $2.1 million in cap money.

If Gardner passes his physical, it would give the Panthers more depth at wide receiver. Earlier this offseason the Panthers lost Muhammad, the NFL's leader in yards receiving and touchdown catches in 2004, to the Chicago Bears as a free agent.

Gardner could compete with second-year receiver Keary Colbert for a starting spot.

"He's looking forward to coming in and competing," said Gardner's agent, Joel Segal.

Gardner, a former Clemson star, was Washington's first-round draft choice in 2001, but the Redskins granted Segal permission to seek a trade for his client this year. Gardner also was excused from all of Washington's offseason workouts.

Gardner would be the second starting Redskins receiver traded this offseason. Washington sent Laveranues Coles to the New York Jets in exchange for receiver Santana Moss after Coles also expressed displeasure with the offense.

The Panthers also agreed on a four-year contract with fourth-round draft pick Stefan LeFors, a quarterback from Louisville, according to LeFors' agent, Jerrold Colton. LeFors should sign the contract Thursday.

Peregrine · 07-27-2005, 07:56 PM

It's a good pickup for the Panthers I think. I had lost faith with Gardner with the Redskins anyway, maybe he needs a new locale to improve his play. The Panthers will have Steve Smith but he does well when able to play off of another solid receiver.

WSUCougar · 07-27-2005, 07:57 PM

I like it. Good move for the black cats.

gstelmack · 07-27-2005, 08:11 PM

[quote=Peregrine]maybe he needs a new locale to improve his play.[quote=Peregrine]

Or a real QB for once...

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

The Panthers will have Steve Smith but he does well when able to play off of another solid receiver.

After Smith's injury last year (and the devestation among the RBs), this just adds insurance for the Panthers. Colbert played very well, and this gives them 3 solid receivers in the lineup. Good for Carolina.

Easy Mac · 07-27-2005, 08:13 PM

I think this has to make them the favorites over the Falcons for the NFC crown. They have 2 very good receivers (plus Colbert, who is young but talented), 2 very good running backs, a very good QB, A great D-line, Very good linebackers, and some very good young corners. Their only questions are on the O-line and depth.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-27-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

I think this has to make them the favorites over the Falcons for the NFC crown. They have 2 very good receivers (plus Colbert, who is young but talented), 2 very good running backs, a very good QB, A great D-line, Very good linebackers, and some very good young corners. Their only questions are on the O-line and depth.

Someone forgetting about the Eagles?

Easy Mac · 07-27-2005, 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Someone forgetting about the Eagles?

No, I'm not.

jbmagic · 07-27-2005, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

Someone forgetting about the Eagles?

there favorite if TO plays

HomerJSimpson · 07-27-2005, 10:36 PM

As a Falcon fan, all I have to say is:

BOOOOOOOO!!!!

HomerJSimpson · 07-27-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jbmagic

there favorite if TO plays

Honestly, the Eagles are the team to beat whether TO plays or not (which he will play).

Havok · 07-28-2005, 02:45 AM

you guys are giving Gardner to much credit.... when he disappears for 5 weeks in a row you'll see the light

Peregrine · 07-28-2005, 02:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havok

you guys are giving Gardner to much credit.... when he disappears for 5 weeks in a row you'll see the light

Yeah that's always the problem with Gardner but I'm hoping changing teams will spark something in him. The Redskins are my favorite team but the Panthers are my second favorite, so hopefully it will end up win/win!

Easy Mac · 07-28-2005, 06:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havok

you guys are giving Gardner to much credit.... when he disappears for 5 weeks in a row you'll see the light

Well, its easy to disappear when no one can throw a ball to you.

wade moore · 07-28-2005, 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Well, its easy to disappear when no one can throw a ball to you.

Umm.... Do you watch Redskins games?

Granted the Skins have not had the best QBing, but Gardner is the biggest pass-dropping starting WR outside of Koren Robinson I have ever seen...

Blackadar · 07-28-2005, 07:26 AM

It gives the Panthers a big target in the middle of the field. Good pickup.

gottimd · 07-28-2005, 07:48 AM

He will have the same success in Carolina as he did in Washington. He will drop passes, and not pose a threat. He still has a mediocre QB throwing to him. Being surrounded by Skins fans, I have heard no disappointments over this trade.

QuikSand · 07-28-2005, 07:52 AM

This feels like a draft day analysis -- you know, we hear the player's name called, we see the highlight reel of him flying past a bunch of guys from Wake Forest, and then we start to muse about how he's going to change everything for his new team.

I don't think this is a bad acquisition -- but I can't stretch my imagination enough to find any argument that Rod Gardner makes any impact on the balance of power in the NFC. If this guy weren't a former first round pick, I suspect this would be a signing of about the same magnitude as... oh, I dunno... David Patten. :snickers:

rkmsuf · 07-28-2005, 07:58 AM

that David Patten signing was classic.

gottimd · 07-28-2005, 08:05 AM

Wherever Rod Gardner went, the Lombardi trophy was destined to follow.

He is a worthless piece of crap....SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!!

wade moore · 07-28-2005, 08:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

This feels like a draft day analysis -- you know, we hear the player's name called, we see the highlight reel of him flying past a bunch of guys from Wake Forest, and then we start to muse about how he's going to change everything for his new team.

I don't think this is a bad acquisition -- but I can't stretch my imagination enough to find any argument that Rod Gardner makes any impact on the balance of power in the NFC. If this guy weren't a former first round pick, I suspect this would be a signing of about the same magnitude as... oh, I dunno... David Patten. :snickers:

Exactly...

I don't feel like Gardner can't be a productive NFL QB, but he is not a game changer by any stretch of the means.. as a #3, he'd be a great fit (big, can get position for short routes... not a burner by any means... needs to work on his hands...).

Radii · 07-28-2005, 08:33 AM

good pickup, go panthers!!

moriarty · 07-28-2005, 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Easy Mac

Didn't see this one coming.

I assume you mean you didn't see him going to NC. Washington has been trying to offload him the entire summer to no avail - they haven't been able to get any interest. The fact that he went for a 6th round pick should tell you something.

I find the comments funny that everyone south of DC is saying good pick, and everyone in DC is saying ... at least we got a 6th rounder for that piece of crap. Hopefully for NC fans he's more productive down there than he was for the Deadskins.

Bee · 07-28-2005, 10:33 AM

Carolina got a nice #3 receiver for a 6th rounder and the Redskins got rid of one of their half-dozen #3 receivers. Good news all around.

Eaglesfan27 · 07-28-2005, 12:05 PM

Exactly, Bee. I don't see Gardner as an impact WR. I also don't see Delhomme as "very good QB." I wouldn't say he is mediocre, but I wouldn't put him the "very good range" either.

gstelmack · 07-28-2005, 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

I also don't see Delhomme as "very good QB." I wouldn't say he is mediocre, but I wouldn't put him the "very good range" either.

I would. All he does is win games.

WSUCougar · 07-28-2005, 12:36 PM

Gardner helps ease the loss of - but does not replace - Muhammed. Expectations will be low, so I think he'll do better.

Delhomme is Tom Brady Lite.

pennywisesb · 07-28-2005, 01:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I would. All he does is win games.

As shown by their stellar season last year. Oh wait a minute.....

IMHO, he throws too many picks, he needs to cut down on his INTs and then I think he'll join the ranks of the good to great QBs.

gstelmack · 07-28-2005, 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

As shown by their stellar season last year. Oh wait a minute.....

7-9 with your 2 star RBs and your #1 WR out with injuries? They had a pretty remarkable year, actually.

Quote:

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

IMHO, he throws too many picks, he needs to cut down on his INTs and then I think he'll join the ranks of the good to great QBs.

Possibly, but when you put the game on his shoulders, he delivers. I'm not putting him up in the elite group, but I'd definitely list him as "very good".

Radii · 07-28-2005, 01:20 PM

I think Delhomme is a very good QB to have in a system that needs a competant passing game, but whose greatness(or lack thereof) will be primarily be determined based on its defense and running game. I'm not comparing him to Dilfer here though. Delhomme to Steve Smith can be a deadly combination and the long ball is a definite threat, but it's not the primary threat.

rkmsuf · 07-28-2005, 01:24 PM

Delhomme is solid. I can see him really coming into his own. He has "it", whatever intangible you want to call it. He has really shown flashes of greatness in close games and played a dynamite superbowl.

Havok · 07-28-2005, 01:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bee

Carolina got a nice #3 receiver for a 6th rounder and the Redskins got rid of one of their half-dozen #3 receivers. Good news all around.

^^ thats more like it... agreed.

BigJohn&TheLions · 07-28-2005, 03:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

I don't feel like Gardner can't be a productive NFL QB, but he is not a game changer by any stretch of the means.. .

I agree, but the Panthers need him to play WR, which should suit him much better...

wade moore · 07-28-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

I agree, but the Panthers need him to play WR, which should suit him much better...

oops...

BigJohn&TheLions · 07-28-2005, 03:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wade moore

oops...

Samdari · 07-28-2005, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gstelmack

7-9 with your 2 star RBs and your #1 WR out with injuries? They had a pretty remarkable year, actually.

And the best DT in the game, and several more traumatic injuries. Most people regard last year's Panthers as hard as any NFL team has been hit by injuries. 7-9 was a Hall of Fame coahcing job by John Fox.

Wolfpack · 07-28-2005, 04:54 PM

True. Nick-freaking-Goings is starting RB and they were still able to run well enough to get from 1-7 to 7-9. Fox was definitely drawing blood from stones in that case. Oddly enough, when it seemed like they had the best chance to actually get a playoff spot, they blew it. If they had held off Atlanta or bothered to show up against New Orleans, they'd have made it.

Vinatieri for Prez · 08-02-2005, 01:50 AM

Originally Posted by Bee
Carolina got a nice #3 receiver for a 6th rounder and the Redskins got rid of one of their half-dozen #3 receivers. Good news all around.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Havok

^^ thats more like it... agreed.

Havok,

I am glad you showed up on this thread. It is good you finally saw the light that went on many months ago. Let me refresh your memory.

(1) Go here: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru...hlight=gardner

(2) Read posts 23-29

I believe you said he was a solid 2nd WR and a 1st WR on some teams. Easily worth a 3rd or 4th round pick (claiming that anyone who thought differently was being ridiculous). Now you admit he is a 3 WR and a good deal at getting a 6th rounder in return. How time changes things.

I think you owe me an apology. Next time, you should do the research before claiming others do not. How's that mid-round pick treating you? A sixth rounder -- that's almost the same as being cut in my books when you've been shopped around for months and go to a team desperate for any WR they can get their hands on. And I stand vindicated -- not much interested generated in the league on that one.

Samdari · 08-02-2005, 07:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Originally Posted by Bee
Carolina got a nice #3 receiver for a 6th rounder and the Redskins got rid of one of their half-dozen #3 receivers. Good news all around.

Havok,

I am glad you showed up on this thread. It is good you finally saw the light that went on many months ago. Let me refresh your memory.

(1) Go here: http://dynamic.gamespy.com/~fof/foru...hlight=gardner

(2) Read posts 23-29

I believe you said he was a solid 2nd WR and a 1st WR on some teams. Easily worth a 3rd or 4th round pick (claiming that anyone who thought differently was being ridiculous). Now you admit he is a 3 WR and a good deal at getting a 6th rounder in return. How time changes things.

I think you owe me an apology. Next time, you should do the research before claiming others do not. How's that mid-round pick treating you? A sixth rounder -- that's almost the same as being cut in my books when you've been shopped around for months and go to a team desperate for any WR they can get their hands on. And I stand vindicated -- not much interested generated in the league on that one.

To be fair, the Redskins got less than true market value for him, because they announced in February that he would be cut if he was not traded. That makes teams less likely to offer anything for him, as teams would prefer to simply wait until he was released. The fact that they had to wait until June 1 to trade him for cap reasons lowered his value as well. They probably could have gotten a 4th for him had they been willing to trade him just before or during the draft. Heck they drove the price down themselves by insisting on a 3rd rounder for so long. The fact that they got anything back in trade at all days before the Redskins were going to be forced to release him (they could not withhold him from TC) shows that he did indeed have value.

Subby · 08-02-2005, 07:35 AM

Mayb he owes you an apology, but you look like a dick dredging this 4-day-old post up and asking for one...

Raiders Army · 08-02-2005, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Mayb he owes you an apology, but you look like a dick dredging this 4-day-old post up and asking for one...

I disagree. It was over five months ago Havok posted that, and I don't think he looks like a dick.

Subby · 08-02-2005, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I disagree. It was over five months ago Havok posted that, and I don't think he looks like a dick.

I don't even know what you mean.

Raiders Army · 08-02-2005, 10:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

I don't even know what you mean.

NM. I sit corrected. I know what you mean by 4-day old post now. My misunderstanding. Yes. I agree, he does look like a dick bringing it up.

Vinatieri for Prez · 08-02-2005, 10:47 PM

Uh, Havok is the one that essentially ripped me one in the old thread, ranting that people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't even post on a subject. Ordinarily, I wouldn't dredge it up, but he deserved it. Especially when in putting down my football knowledge he claims the guy is a #1 or #2 receiver, then months later admits the guy is a #3.

Sam, I never said the guy didn't have value, I said there wouldn't be many interested in "trading for him" especially knowing he was likely to be cut. As it turns out, I was right.

Vinatieri for Prez · 08-02-2005, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Mayb he owes you an apology, but you look like a dick dredging this 4-day-old post up and asking for one...

Sorry, I don't sit at the computer 8 hours every day checking posts.

cthomer5000 · 08-03-2005, 12:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Sorry, I don't sit at the computer 8 hours every day checking posts.

But you do have the time to check back on old threads four days later, and dig up another post months old as part of your argument?

Vinatieri for Prez · 08-03-2005, 01:05 AM

Ah yeah. When I eventually sit down, I scroll through about the first 4 or 5 pages for interesting topics. When I saw Gardner traded it sparked my memory. It really only took about 30 seconds to find the prior thread and put a link to it. My point is I don't necessarily check everyday, and sometimes many days pass in between. But when I am finally on I may spend a bit of time. I'd imagine this how most people use the board. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyways, I'm moving on.

Bee · 12-20-2005, 06:35 AM

Guess that didn't work out...Green Bay here he comes...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2265650

Wolfpack · 12-21-2005, 10:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BigJohn&TheLions

I agree, but the Panthers need him to play WR, which should suit him much better...

Not when they apparently have Steve Smith lined up at all the receiver positions on the field at all times. I admit that it's a little disappointing Gardner didn't work out, but Smith has pretty much made the entire receiver corps of the Panthers expendable the way he's played this year. Definitely worth the money he's getting.

07-28-2005, 02:45 AM	#11
Havok College Starter Join Date: Mar 2003 Location: Florida	you guys are giving Gardner to much credit.... when he disappears for 5 weeks in a row you'll see the light __________________ Maniacal Misfitz - We're better than you and we know it!

07-28-2005, 07:48 AM	#16
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	He will have the same success in Carolina as he did in Washington. He will drop passes, and not pose a threat. He still has a mediocre QB throwing to him. Being surrounded by Skins fans, I have heard no disappointments over this trade. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

07-28-2005, 07:58 AM	#18
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	that David Patten signing was classic. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

07-28-2005, 08:05 AM	#19
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	Wherever Rod Gardner went, the Lombardi trophy was destined to follow. He is a worthless piece of crap....SHOW ME THE MONEY!!!! __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

07-28-2005, 12:05 PM	#24
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Exactly, Bee. I don't see Gardner as an impact WR. I also don't see Delhomme as "very good QB." I wouldn't say he is mediocre, but I wouldn't put him the "very good range" either. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

07-27-2005, 07:56 PM	#2
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	It's a good pickup for the Panthers I think. I had lost faith with Gardner with the Redskins anyway, maybe he needs a new locale to improve his play. The Panthers will have Steve Smith but he does well when able to play off of another solid receiver.

07-27-2005, 07:57 PM	#3
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	I like it. Good move for the black cats. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

07-27-2005, 08:13 PM	#5
Easy Mac Registered User Join Date: Nov 2001 Location: Here	I think this has to make them the favorites over the Falcons for the NFC crown. They have 2 very good receivers (plus Colbert, who is young but talented), 2 very good running backs, a very good QB, A great D-line, Very good linebackers, and some very good young corners. Their only questions are on the O-line and depth.

07-27-2005, 10:36 PM	#9
HomerJSimpson College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2005 Location: Springfield, USA	As a Falcon fan, all I have to say is: BOOOOOOOO!!!!

07-28-2005, 07:26 AM	#15
Blackadar Retired Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fantasyland	It gives the Panthers a big target in the middle of the field. Good pickup.

07-28-2005, 07:52 AM	#17
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	This feels like a draft day analysis -- you know, we hear the player's name called, we see the highlight reel of him flying past a bunch of guys from Wake Forest, and then we start to muse about how he's going to change everything for his new team. I don't think this is a bad acquisition -- but I can't stretch my imagination enough to find any argument that Rod Gardner makes any impact on the balance of power in the NFC. If this guy weren't a former first round pick, I suspect this would be a signing of about the same magnitude as... oh, I dunno... David Patten. :snickers:

07-28-2005, 08:33 AM	#21
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	good pickup, go panthers!!

07-28-2005, 10:33 AM	#23
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Carolina got a nice #3 receiver for a 6th rounder and the Redskins got rid of one of their half-dozen #3 receivers. Good news all around.

07-28-2005, 12:36 PM	#26
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Gardner helps ease the loss of - but does not replace - Muhammed. Expectations will be low, so I think he'll do better. Delhomme is Tom Brady Lite. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

07-28-2005, 01:20 PM	#29
Radii Head Coach Join Date: Jul 2001	I think Delhomme is a very good QB to have in a system that needs a competant passing game, but whose greatness(or lack thereof) will be primarily be determined based on its defense and running game. I'm not comparing him to Dilfer here though. Delhomme to Steve Smith can be a deadly combination and the long ball is a definite threat, but it's not the primary threat.

07-28-2005, 01:24 PM	#30
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Delhomme is solid. I can see him really coming into his own. He has "it", whatever intangible you want to call it. He has really shown flashes of greatness in close games and played a dynamite superbowl. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

07-28-2005, 04:54 PM	#36
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	True. Nick-freaking-Goings is starting RB and they were still able to run well enough to get from 1-7 to 7-9. Fox was definitely drawing blood from stones in that case. Oddly enough, when it seemed like they had the best chance to actually get a playoff spot, they blew it. If they had held off Atlanta or bothered to show up against New Orleans, they'd have made it.

08-02-2005, 07:35 AM	#39
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Mayb he owes you an apology, but you look like a dick dredging this 4-day-old post up and asking for one... __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

08-02-2005, 10:47 PM	#43
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Uh, Havok is the one that essentially ripped me one in the old thread, ranting that people who don't know what they're talking about shouldn't even post on a subject. Ordinarily, I wouldn't dredge it up, but he deserved it. Especially when in putting down my football knowledge he claims the guy is a #1 or #2 receiver, then months later admits the guy is a #3. Sam, I never said the guy didn't have value, I said there wouldn't be many interested in "trading for him" especially knowing he was likely to be cut. As it turns out, I was right. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 08-02-2005 at 10:52 PM.

08-03-2005, 01:05 AM	#46
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Ah yeah. When I eventually sit down, I scroll through about the first 4 or 5 pages for interesting topics. When I saw Gardner traded it sparked my memory. It really only took about 30 seconds to find the prior thread and put a link to it. My point is I don't necessarily check everyday, and sometimes many days pass in between. But when I am finally on I may spend a bit of time. I'd imagine this how most people use the board. Maybe I'm wrong. Anyways, I'm moving on.

12-20-2005, 06:35 AM	#47
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	Guess that didn't work out...Green Bay here he comes... http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2265650 Last edited by Bee : 12-20-2005 at 06:37 AM.

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