4-3 v.s. 3-4

jshipman2 · 08-27-2005, 01:42 PM

What are the advantages/disadvantages of each type of defense? When is it better to play one over the other?

mhass · 08-29-2005, 06:16 PM

I'll tell you the #1 reason I use the 3-4 when I choose it: it's cheaper. Linebackers are far cheaper than tackles.

Strategically, the 4-3 is considered more of a run defense.

PackerFanatic · 08-29-2005, 06:43 PM

Dependers on your linebackers too...you need backers that can defend the run decently otherwise backs will shred you for big gains.

Icy · 08-30-2005, 03:39 AM

When is the best time to switch systems? i tried midseason (after long time injuries on my tackles) and it was a disaster when i had the personal so i think i was penalized on some way for changing midseason, or maybe it was just bad luck.

Warhammer · 08-30-2005, 09:57 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Icy

When is the best time to switch systems? i tried midseason (after long time injuries on my tackles) and it was a disaster when i had the personal so i think i was penalized on some way for changing midseason, or maybe it was just bad luck.

You need to change a lot of your blitz settings to get the 3-4 to work well. You can just change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 leave all other settings the same and have it work well.

flere-imsaho · 08-30-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer

You need to change a lot of your blitz settings to get the 3-4 to work well. You can just change from a 4-3 to a 3-4 leave all other settings the same and have it work well.

I think you mean "You can't just change...."

I'll echo the cost thing. LBs, especially ILBs, are cheaper than DTs.

One warning, though: in the 3-4, your WLB is even more vulnerable to the run. Make sure he's at least decent at defending the run, or you'll get burnt repeatedly for long gains on the weakside.

Leonidas · 08-30-2005, 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhass

Strategically, the 4-3 is considered more of a run defense.

Which is something Jim needs to re-think because in the NFL it's the opposite. LBs are more suited for stopping fleet runners then pass rushing linemen. I like the 4-3 because I think I get a better pass rush from the line. In FOF I've never had much success blitzing with the LB's so I've always made sure to have good pass rushing linemen.

Warhammer · 08-30-2005, 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Which is something Jim needs to re-think because in the NFL it's the opposite. LBs are more suited for stopping fleet runners then pass rushing linemen. I like the 4-3 because I think I get a better pass rush from the line. In FOF I've never had much success blitzing with the LB's so I've always made sure to have good pass rushing linemen.

I think you are right, but for the wrong reason. I think there has been a dearth of stellar outside linebackers in recent years. As a result, teams have gone to a 4-3 to get a bigger push, while also maintaining a strong run D.

A 3-4 you ALWAYS have the option of dropping more players into coverage. Would you rather have an OLB in coverage or a DE?

Samdari · 08-31-2005, 09:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Which is something Jim needs to re-think because in the NFL it's the opposite. LBs are more suited for stopping fleet runners then pass rushing linemen. I like the 4-3 because I think I get a better pass rush from the line. In FOF I've never had much success blitzing with the LB's so I've always made sure to have good pass rushing linemen.

Umm, in the NFL, the 4-3 is the run stopping defense. The best way to stop the run is to hold ground against blockers or better yet, push them back. This is best accomplished with big guys. If you are depending on speed to stop the run, you are generally pursuing and have already lost the play.

Calabaza · 08-31-2005, 07:29 PM

Pittsburgh and Baltimore always lead the league in Rush Defense and they are in the 3-4.

Leonidas · 08-31-2005, 08:01 PM

Interesting article on 3-4 vs 4-3
http://kffl.com/article.php/12406/303

Looks like the biggest difference is the 3-4 is very blitz oriented while the 4-3 relies on lineman to get to the QB. No real discussion here on aspects of the run defense, but I always thought it was pretty well implied the 3-4 was big in the 70's to stop the run and it's a good runstopper today, assuming you have the right personnel to run it. My personal experience in FOF is a 4-3 with good ends gets much better presuure on a QB than a 3-4 with good ends or good anything else. I've never thought much of a blitzing style in FOF or seen it work well at all. Most I've ever seen an LB get is maybe 12 sacks, but every season at least one DE from a 4-3 get 20.

Buzzbee · 08-31-2005, 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Leonidas

Interesting article on 3-4 vs 4-3
http://kffl.com/article.php/12406/303

Looks like the biggest difference is the 3-4 is very blitz oriented while the 4-3 relies on lineman to get to the QB. No real discussion here on aspects of the run defense, but I always thought it was pretty well implied the 3-4 was big in the 70's to stop the run and it's a good runstopper today, assuming you have the right personnel to run it. My personal experience in FOF is a 4-3 with good ends gets much better presuure on a QB than a 3-4 with good ends or good anything else. I've never thought much of a blitzing style in FOF or seen it work well at all. Most I've ever seen an LB get is maybe 12 sacks, but every season at least one DE from a 4-3 get 20.

Prior to the latest patch there was a LB in the IHOF that amassed 28 sacks in a season. Granted that was in a 3-4 and he was blitzing all the time. Post patch the effectiveness of LBs is significantly diminished, based on the reduction of sacks by LBs in the IHOF.

WrongWay · 09-08-2005, 12:30 AM

Has the latest patch of FOF2004 5.1d made the 3-4 defense worthless?

As a huge 3-4 fan in real life I find myself post "D" patch immediately switching my FOF teams to a 4-3 defense as fast as I can. A 3-4 defense that can't put pressure on a QB with it's LBs is basically worthless.

BTW-- The 3-4 defense is a run stopping defense in real life. Want proof; just check out what position leads the league, or your team in tackles. If you want to stop the run you put another LB on the field.

mhass · 09-08-2005, 07:30 AM

The 4-3 plugs the 1,3,2 and 4 gaps in the offensive line which makes it harder to make it to the next level where a running back can use speed or elusiveness to avoid tacklers. The fact that linebackers make more tackles is a function of the fact that they aren't blocked right at the snap.

WrongWay · 09-08-2005, 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mhass

The 4-3 plugs the 1,3,2 and 4 gaps in the offensive line which makes it harder to make it to the next level where a running back can use speed or elusiveness to avoid tacklers. The fact that linebackers make more tackles is a function of the fact that they aren't blocked right at the snap.

This is why the 3-4 is not considered a good Goal Line formation. But, it will prevent teams from running outside the tackles.

In a 3-4 your Defensive lineman are basically Cannon Fodder. Their main job is to keep the Offensive Lineman from engaging the LBs. The LineBackers run Parallel to the line of scrimage waiting for the play to develop and then they make their move and meet the RB at the line of scrimage. Also, with 2 LineBackers sitting outside the tackles it makes it very hard for the offense to run those Sweeps.

MrBigglesworth · 09-10-2005, 11:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Calabaza

Pittsburgh and Baltimore always lead the league in Rush Defense and they are in the 3-4.

I don't know what they run today, but the year they won the Super Bowl (and had that sick defense) the Ravens played a 4-3, with huge tackles Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa taking up blockers which let Ray Lewis roam the field unblocked.

Kozure · 09-15-2005, 07:53 PM

Wrong way is right, but Linebackers have their KEYS which is essentially gap control. They fill gaps as they develop, but if two linebackers mess up and fill the same gap, problems happen.

In the game, if you switch from 4-3 to 3-4, linemen don't adjust their roles, which as stated above is to keep linemen off of linebackers. That doesn't mean the 3-4 defense is any better or worse, but it does mean it isn't like how it is done in the NFL.

One last thing, in the 3-4, defenses have more flexibility in pass coverage. They can more easily put an extra player into coverage. That's why 3-4 defenses preach the use of athletic linebackers who have good cover skills. At least, the Steelers always do.

Kozure · 09-15-2005, 07:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

I don't know what they run today, but the year they won the Super Bowl (and had that sick defense) the Ravens played a 4-3, with huge tackles Sam Adams and Tony Siragusa taking up blockers which let Ray Lewis roam the field unblocked.

Ravens ran a 4-3, cover 2 defense when they won their super bowl. Then the two previous seasons, they ran a 3-4. This season, I don't know what to call thier defense -- 3-5-3?

stevew · 09-16-2005, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kozure

Ravens ran a 4-3, cover 2 defense when they won their super bowl. Then the two previous seasons, they ran a 3-4. This season, I don't know what to call thier defense -- 3-5-3?

Ineffective?

08-29-2005, 06:16 PM	#2
mhass High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here	I'll tell you the #1 reason I use the 3-4 when I choose it: it's cheaper. Linebackers are far cheaper than tackles. Strategically, the 4-3 is considered more of a run defense. __________________ Now while I wasn't able to cut everyone I wanted to, I have cut a lot of you. - H.J.S.

08-29-2005, 06:43 PM	#3
PackerFanatic Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2005 Location: Appleton, WI	Dependers on your linebackers too...you need backers that can defend the run decently otherwise backs will shred you for big gains. __________________ Commissioner of the RNFL

08-30-2005, 03:39 AM	#4
Icy Pro Starter Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Toledo - Spain	When is the best time to switch systems? i tried midseason (after long time injuries on my tackles) and it was a disaster when i had the personal so i think i was penalized on some way for changing midseason, or maybe it was just bad luck. Last edited by Icy : 08-30-2005 at 03:41 AM.

08-31-2005, 08:01 PM	#11
Leonidas College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jan 2003 Location: East Anglia	Interesting article on 3-4 vs 4-3 http://kffl.com/article.php/12406/303 Looks like the biggest difference is the 3-4 is very blitz oriented while the 4-3 relies on lineman to get to the QB. No real discussion here on aspects of the run defense, but I always thought it was pretty well implied the 3-4 was big in the 70's to stop the run and it's a good runstopper today, assuming you have the right personnel to run it. My personal experience in FOF is a 4-3 with good ends gets much better presuure on a QB than a 3-4 with good ends or good anything else. I've never thought much of a blitzing style in FOF or seen it work well at all. Most I've ever seen an LB get is maybe 12 sacks, but every season at least one DE from a 4-3 get 20. __________________ Molon labe

09-08-2005, 07:30 AM	#14
mhass High School Varsity Join Date: Jan 2004 Location: Here	The 4-3 plugs the 1,3,2 and 4 gaps in the offensive line which makes it harder to make it to the next level where a running back can use speed or elusiveness to avoid tacklers. The fact that linebackers make more tackles is a function of the fact that they aren't blocked right at the snap. __________________ Now while I wasn't able to cut everyone I wanted to, I have cut a lot of you. - H.J.S.

08-31-2005, 07:29 PM	#10
Calabaza n00b Join Date: May 2005	Pittsburgh and Baltimore always lead the league in Rush Defense and they are in the 3-4.

09-08-2005, 12:30 AM	#13
WrongWay Banned Join Date: Jan 2005	Has the latest patch of FOF2004 5.1d made the 3-4 defense worthless? As a huge 3-4 fan in real life I find myself post "D" patch immediately switching my FOF teams to a 4-3 defense as fast as I can. A 3-4 defense that can't put pressure on a QB with it's LBs is basically worthless. BTW-- The 3-4 defense is a run stopping defense in real life. Want proof; just check out what position leads the league, or your team in tackles. If you want to stop the run you put another LB on the field.

09-15-2005, 07:53 PM	#17
Kozure High School JV Join Date: Apr 2004	Wrong way is right, but Linebackers have their KEYS which is essentially gap control. They fill gaps as they develop, but if two linebackers mess up and fill the same gap, problems happen. In the game, if you switch from 4-3 to 3-4, linemen don't adjust their roles, which as stated above is to keep linemen off of linebackers. That doesn't mean the 3-4 defense is any better or worse, but it does mean it isn't like how it is done in the NFL. One last thing, in the 3-4, defenses have more flexibility in pass coverage. They can more easily put an extra player into coverage. That's why 3-4 defenses preach the use of athletic linebackers who have good cover skills. At least, the Steelers always do.

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