So, Yeah...Laminate Flooring

[Subby]

So my wife has this cocky and funny idea that we should tear up the carpet in our basement and install laminate flooring...OURSELVES. Despite having a degree from the "write the check" school of home improvement, I have decided that the cost savings from doing this ourselves is probably enough to make this worth tackling.

Anyway - the area in quesiton is a little less than half the basement - around 500 square feet. Aside from knowing we want glueless laminate - is there any other tips folks could pass on? Any other experiences? Tearing up the carpet looks pretty straightforward, but any tips there would be appreciated as well.

Thanks!

[Poli]

Do it yourself. Carpet companies are shady.

[Poli]

I should know, btw. My dad and brother are carpet guys.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Subby

Despite having a degree from the "write the check" school of home improvement

I went there, too...class of '98. Did you ever go to that strip joint right off campus? You know, the one called Melon Shakers?

Aside from knowing we want glueless laminate - is there any other tips folks could pass on?

Tip #1 - Try not to ruin your house.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Put that "degree" you mentioned to good use. Otherwise, my experience is that all you're going to end up doing is paying twice -- once to screw it up yourself & once to have someone do it right.

I will conceed that removing the carpet isn't likely to be any worse than what we encountered here some years back. It was a real bitch due to the overuse of nailstrips, but it was survivable overall. Maybe the answer is to split the difference - DIY the removal but leave the replacement to the professionals.

[Solecismic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Put that "degree" you mentioned to good use. Otherwise, my experience is that all you're going to end up doing is paying twice -- once to screw it up yourself & once to have someone do it right.

I will conceed that removing the carpet isn't likely to be any worse than what we encountered here some years back. It was a real bitch due to the overuse of nailstrips, but it was survivable overall. Maybe the answer is to split the difference - DIY the removal but leave the replacement to the professionals.

I think HA is going to puke when he sees this thread (and he'll share his reaction quite generously).

Removing carpet is very easy. Especially with one of those crowbars that includes a nail remover. You'll want to fill the nail holes with some sort of putty before you continue.

I haven't tried laying down laminate myself, but it is considered one of the easier home improvement projects with today's products. Just measure everything carefully before cutting anything, and make sure all your pieces fit before gluing anything.

I would not try laying down carpet myself. It needs to be stretched properly, and that's not something that will ever look good if you make a tiny mistake. We had second-rate pros put carpet in the one room in our house that has it, and it looks terrible.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Subby

So my wife has this cocky and funny idea that we should tear up the carpet in our basement and install laminate flooring...OURSELVES. Despite having a degree from the "write the check" school of home improvement, I have decided that the cost savings from doing this ourselves is probably enough to make this worth tackling.

Anyway - the area in quesiton is a little less than half the basement - around 500 square feet. Aside from knowing we want glueless laminate - is there any other tips folks could pass on? Any other experiences? Tearing up the carpet looks pretty straightforward, but any tips there would be appreciated as well.

Thanks!

Despite my wife and I doing a masters from the "write the check" school of home improvement, we decided to keep the installation of laminate flooring on the whole second floor of our brand new house for ourselves. That was four years ago and we survived

Seriously, no glue goes without saying. Other than that, make sure you buy a relatively good quality flooring. Here they're talking in milimeters and they usually recommend at least 8mm. As you said, tearing the carpet should be pretty straighforward, then you'd only have to make sure the floor is about even and you have the right kind of undermat (whatever they call what goes under the flooring) especially if this goes on a concrete floor in a basement. In that case, you may need one that has one insulated side...

Other than that, it's quite easy to install...

FM

[Poli]

I'm a second rate pro now. I would install with my dad and brother around the winter time when business picked up. I didn't touch much laminate. What I did was about 9 years ago. I was never really into it. I just think the whole business is a little shady. When I go home on leave, I'll take a day to work with them. They don't pay me, though. Jerks.

[Poli]

Originally Posted by Solecismic

Removing carpet is very easy. Especially with one of those crowbars that includes a nail remover. You'll want to fill the nail holes with some sort of putty before you continue.

I find this almost as easy as laying the tackstrip and padding. Both are incredibly easy as well.

[Swaggs]

That is a fairly small area. I would at least get an estimate for how much it costs. Between how pissed off you will get at the tack strips, the time, the potential to screw up, and then having to dispose of all the waste, it may end up being worth it to you to just pay someone else to do it.

Another thing to consider is whether or not what you are using will be effected by moisture in your basement. You may need some sort of vapor seal if you are laying onto concrete.

[Subby]

There is actually asbestos tile under the carpet, so we have that going for us, which is nice.

[rkmsuf]

Trained monkeys could install that. Go for it chisel chest.

[Swaggs]

Originally Posted by Subby

There is actually asbestos tile under the carpet, so we have that going for us, which is nice.

You mean nice in an other than if it gets broken, you happen to inhale it, and it stays in your body the rest of your life-type of way?

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by Subby

There is actually asbestos tile under the carpet, so we have that going for us, which is nice.

I think that's the first time anyone has been happy to have asbestos in about 15 years...

[cubboyroy1826]

My experience was removing the carpet but a pain depending on whether the previous owners had pets. Go with a quality tile and stay away from the squares and go with the sheets. The squares are the biggest pain in the ass unless the room is perfectly square. Definitely get a quote because it might be worth it.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by cubboyroy1826

My experience was removing the carpet but a pain depending on whether the previous owners had pets. Go with a quality tile and stay away from the squares and go with the sheets. The squares are the biggest pain in the ass unless the room is perfectly square. Definitely get a quote because it might be worth it.

I am actually looking at tongue and groove laminate...like Pergo or Armstrong Swiftlock - we did the square linoleum stuff in one of our bathrooms and it was horrible.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Subby

I am actually looking at tongue and groove laminate...like Pergo or Armstrong Swiftlock - we did the square linoleum stuff in one of our bathrooms and it was horrible.

I wouldn't put Pergo in a basement if I were you. My friend has it, and it buckled when his dog peed on it.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by General Mike

I wouldn't put Pergo in a basement if I were you. My friend has it, and it buckled when his dog peed on it.

Nice. We are replacing the four year old carpet because it has every imaginable human and cat fluid on it. Not to mention food and drink and dirt stains that pwn the shit out of the steam cleaners that have come through there.

If dog pee can buckle pergo, I hate to see what my crew will do to it

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by Subby

Nice. We are replacing the four year old carpet because it has every imaginable human and cat fluid on it.

Hoyyy...I think my chicken strips from lunch are advancing back up my throat.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by Subby

Nice. We are replacing the four year old carpet because it has every imaginable human and cat fluid on it. Not to mention food and drink and dirt stains that pwn the shit out of the steam cleaners that have come through there.

If dog pee can buckle pergo, I hate to see what my crew will do to it

Well I don't know how many times his dog peed on it, but my brother and I are looking to put a new floor in an extra room we have (used to be the garage, has always been a spare room, will be a rec room), and we like the look of Pergo, but our friend said that you can't get it wet, so we are gonna go with honed tile.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Hoyyy...I think my chicken strips from lunch are advancing back up my throat.

Come on over and just deposit them on our carpet while you still can.

[mrsimperless]

I thought one of the advantages of laminate vs. hardwood was that you CAN get laminate wet. Aren't you supposed to be able to mop it?

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

I thought one of the advantages of laminate vs. hardwood was that you CAN get laminate wet. Aren't you supposed to be able to mop it?

who really knows. Just one big scam.

[mrsimperless]

I am now spiralling into a deep dark depression from the unfairness of the world.

Only TCY2 can save me now.

[Buzzbee]

My wife and I put down Armstrong Swiftlock in our living room, which included carpet removal. It really isn't bad at all. If you have a fairly square room without any fixtures (like pipes, cabinets, toilets, etc.) then it is pretty easy.

1) carpet removal - I have a truck, and our local dump takes just about any household waste up to 300 lbs for $7. Removing the nailstrips was a bit of a pain, but not horrible.

2) removing old linoleum - This probably isn't an issue for you, but we had linoleum under the carpet that we decided to pull up. This was the worst part of the project.

3) preparing the surface - We thought the padding would be thicker, much like carpet padding, but it isn't. It is more like the thin foam you might find around stereo components. Therefore make sure the floor is devoid of big bumps or dips. The padding won't compensate and it will make for kinda nasty suprise when laying the flooring.

4) Putting down the padding- Roll it out. Wow. Real difficult.

5) Putting down the laminate - A square room makes this much easier since you don't have to cut to fit, and you don't have to worry about the 'planks' ending up diagonal to your walls. At first it is a bit frustrating because the 'planks' have a tendency to move around, but if you get smart and put an unopen box of planks on one end to hold it down, it really makes things easier. The planks go together like a puzzle, and in a big area really go down quickly. Having to leave a 1/4 inch space around the edge makes cutting a little less nervewracking as you have a wee bit of tolerance to mess up.

Recommendation: If you do it yourself, invest in a saw blade made to cut laminate. Using one make for plywood will leave a very rough edge and make things look absolutely shitty. One cut with the blade that came on my circular saw taught me that.

[Buzzbee]

Oh, you CAN get the laminate wet. Home Depot does a class on putting down laminate. the first thing they do is take a small piece of laminate and put it in a glass of water. At the end of the class they take the piece out and it is pretty much unaffected. If you left it in water for a day or two, sure there would be problems, but occaisional contact with water for short periods of time is not an issue.


One other tip: I bought a little kit that cam with the 1/4 inch spacers and a tool to pull the planks together. It was worth it. I did learn to put a bit of duct tape on the tool to keep it from scratching or chipping the edge of the plank. It isn't very deep and it WILL slide off the edge eventually, which if done hard enough will chip the edge.

[mhass]

Don't put any of the engineered laminates in a basement. Water in the ground works through the concrete floor and will destroy it. The only safe way to do that would be to lay wood "sleepers" down over a heavy vapor barrier and that only works if you NEVER have standing water in the area being floored. Stick with sheet goods.

[mrsimperless]

Originally Posted by mhass

Don't put any of the engineered laminates in a basement. Water in the ground works through the concrete floor and will destroy it. The only safe way to do that would be to lay wood "sleepers" down over a heavy vapor barrier and that only works if you NEVER have standing water in the area being floored. Stick with sheet goods.

wow

You had me at heavy vapor barrier.

[jamesUMD]

Maybe the answer is to split the difference - DIY the removal but leave the replacement to the professionals.

I second this option. It doesn't take much skill to destroy or remove something, but putting it back together can be a bitch. I tore out 3 closets and a tile floor in my basement for the commencement of the 112" TV and was extremely happy that I had someone take care of the carpet and tile installation. The glue for the floor must have had adamantium in it (marvel comic reference). We rented a mechanical tile remover and still felt like we had just finished the Bataan Death March.

Besides if someone else does the job, and does it wrong, you can force them to come fix it. If you f**k it up, you just get mad at yourself for not having had someone do it right the first time.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Subby

If dog pee can buckle pergo, I hate to see what my crew will do to it

I have to step in and defend pergo here. My parent have a blind, deaf, stupid dog that should be put to sleep. The thing pisses all over the floor constantly, and the pergo floor shows ZERO sign of damage.

Perhaps it varies by type or brand (I believe pergo is a brand name, but im sure there are some alternate brands out there).

Also, I've dropped shit that i would completely have expected to at least dent the floor (huge can of tomates, from 5 foot height), then been amazed to see no damage at all.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by Buzzbee

Oh, you CAN get the laminate wet. Home Depot does a class on putting down laminate. the first thing they do is take a small piece of laminate and put it in a glass of water. At the end of the class they take the piece out and it is pretty much unaffected. If you left it in water for a day or two, sure there would be problems, but occaisional contact with water for short periods of time is not an issue.


One other tip: I bought a little kit that cam with the 1/4 inch spacers and a tool to pull the planks together. It was worth it. I did learn to put a bit of duct tape on the tool to keep it from scratching or chipping the edge of the plank. It isn't very deep and it WILL slide off the edge eventually, which if done hard enough will chip the edge.

You can get it wet, as the top surface will repel water. But, a if even a moderate amount of water seeps under (through the seams) and gets into the wood underneath, it will absorb the water and bow at said seams. You have to be MUCH more careful about it than with linoleum or even carpet. Had about 15 gallons of water on a 200 square foot floor for ~10 minutes (washer outlet hose broke) and it totally ruined the floor.

[Subby]

Thanks everyone. I went to Home Depot last night and was able to get 27 cases of snap and lock laminate, 500 sq ft of underlayment and two pairs of knee pads for uner $1000. Installation here would run us about $1500, so the money we save we'll probably end up using to have the sliding glass door to the basement replaced with freedom doors.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Trained monkeys could install that. Go for it chisel chest.

How much would the trained monkeys charge to install it?

[Icy]

I paid for it to be installed when i bought this new home last year, a friend told to do myself etc but i thought on it and for me it has more value the time i would lose doing it than the amount i would pay to pros. To start to put it room is not the problem, in fact it's very easy, the problem is when you reach the other side of the room, and you need to cut it properly, especially if the room is not a perfect rectangle. If you have columns in the middle of the room it can be a nightmare unless you have the skills to cut it. The worst part is not the floor anyway, but the pieces you put over the floor lying on the walls (don't know the English term for that). You need to cut them in the perfect angle to match each other etc.

The difference on price for me was:
Laminate price at the shop = 17€ per square meter.
Laminate price already put in my whole house = 30€ per square meter including all the endings around columns, walls, etc etc.

NOTE: 1€ = around $1.20

If you're bored, have extra time, or really need the money, do it yourself. If you have better things to do, pay for it to be done and expend that time working, enjoying with your wife or playing text sims, it doesn't worth the effort to me. I usually prefer to pay for the things to be done unless are stupidly expensive. A pro in something is a pro, they have the skills, tools and experience that you haven't.

[Bee]

I pretty much have the same philosophy as Icy. Unless it's somthing I enjoy doing or is ridiculously expensive for the work involved, I pay to have stuff done. I pay to have my house cleaned, my clothes washed, my yard mowed, etc. (Damn, I'm lazy...)

[BigJohn&TheLions]

When I had a house the best thing I ever did was rip up the old tiles off the basement floor. I then removed the adhesive using kerosene and a wire brush. Cleanup was done using a hose, dish detergent, large sponge and a scrub brush.

I then painted the floor using oil base paint. If you want to make it prettier, sponge paint over that.

The humidity in the basement went down measurably. Cleanup was a breeze.

[JonInMiddleGA]

What Bee said ... except that it isn't laziness, it's effective use of limited resources

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Bee

How much would the trained monkeys charge to install it?

Free if you can tolerate the feces throwing.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

What Bee said ... except that it isn't laziness, it's effective use of limited resources

Hmmm...I always assumed it was the overabundance of cheap, uneducated rural labor.

[Subby]

Just as a postscript...

We ended up spending $700 on 25 cases of laminate and $150 on the underlayment. Trim was about $150. I also went through about 6 power saw blades.

Tearing up the carpet was pretty easy - I used a wonder bar and hammer to get up the tack strip and a razor to cut the carpet and pad into three foot lengths. We took all the carpet, pad, tack strip, and two old couches we had down in the basement to the dump in two trips and paid $10 total to dispose of it.

The laminate went down really easy. Right down on top of the underlayment, which went right down on top of the tile underneath. The hardest part, obviously is cutting around corners and such.

The results are pretty stunning. Basement carpet just "holds" everything. They get dank and nasty and dirty. The difference in smell, air-quality, and asthetics are noticeable. We are also replacing the old sliding glass door with french doors and I bought a La-z-Boy rocker/recliner just because I am getting old and it is probably medically necessary.

Anyway - nothing wrong with paying someone to do it - but if it ever comes up for you, I highly recommend giving it a shot yourself.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Subby

Just as a postscript...

We ended up spending $700 on 25 cases of laminate and $150 on the underlayment. Trim was about $150. I also went through about 6 power saw blades.

Tearing up the carpet was pretty easy - I used a wonder bar and hammer to get up the tack strip and a razor to cut the carpet and pad into three foot lengths. We took all the carpet, pad, tack strip, and two old couches we had down in the basement to the dump in two trips and paid $10 total to dispose of it.

The laminate went down really easy. Right down on top of the underlayment, which went right down on top of the tile underneath. The hardest part, obviously is cutting around corners and such.

The results are pretty stunning. Basement carpet just "holds" everything. They get dank and nasty and dirty. The difference in smell, air-quality, and asthetics are noticeable. We are also replacing the old sliding glass door with french doors and I bought a La-z-Boy rocker/recliner just because I am getting old and it is probably medically necessary.

Anyway - nothing wrong with paying someone to do it - but if it ever comes up for you, I highly recommend giving it a shot yourself.

Can you write off the la-z-boy on your taxes as a medical expense?

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Subby

Just as a postscript...

We ended up spending $700 on 25 cases of laminate and $150 on the underlayment. Trim was about $150. I also went through about 6 power saw blades.

Tearing up the carpet was pretty easy - I used a wonder bar and hammer to get up the tack strip and a razor to cut the carpet and pad into three foot lengths. We took all the carpet, pad, tack strip, and two old couches we had down in the basement to the dump in two trips and paid $10 total to dispose of it.

The laminate went down really easy. Right down on top of the underlayment, which went right down on top of the tile underneath. The hardest part, obviously is cutting around corners and such.

The results are pretty stunning. Basement carpet just "holds" everything. They get dank and nasty and dirty. The difference in smell, air-quality, and asthetics are noticeable. We are also replacing the old sliding glass door with french doors and I bought a La-z-Boy rocker/recliner just because I am getting old and it is probably medically necessary.

Anyway - nothing wrong with paying someone to do it - but if it ever comes up for you, I highly recommend giving it a shot yourself.

Glad it went well for you!

Were there any comments here that helped make things easier for you? Also, are there any tips that you learned that you'd like to share for anyone else that might try to tackle it?