NCAA Football Polls Question

nilodor · 10-02-2005, 01:29 PM

So I have always wondered this. Is the solution to not having split national champions be only have one poll? Ie Just use the AP poll and forget about the Coaches (Or the new incarnation) and the BCS. Does anyone know the reason that a second poll was brought in? Wouldn't that take away of alot of ammuntion for teams that say they have been screwed because their ranked number one in one poll but don't win the national championship?

Young Drachma · 10-02-2005, 01:30 PM

The BCS only considered their champ as the true college natl champ.

But obviously, the media controls everything and the AP poll is older. So winning a share of it, is obviously better than not at all. The BCS was supposed to alleviate this problem, but without one playoff it obviously won't happen.

nilodor · 10-02-2005, 02:05 PM

I thought the whole purpose of the BCS was to get rid of split national champions between the coaches and the AP poll. If there was no BCS poll and coaches poll, would there still be the same amount of controversy? There wouldn't be any split national champions.

Airhog · 10-02-2005, 02:05 PM

Speaking of this, I am sick and tired of hearing about how USC has a shot at winning three straight national championships. They only won 1. So they got screwed, and didnt play LSU that year, deal with it folks.

Huckleberry · 10-02-2005, 02:07 PM

Galaxy · 10-02-2005, 02:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

Speaking of this, I am sick and tired of hearing about how USC has a shot at winning three straight national championships. They only won 1. So they got screwed, and didnt play LSU that year, deal with it folks.

Technically, they won a share of that national championship (the AP and BCS each have one).

Noop · 10-02-2005, 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

Speaking of this, I am sick and tired of hearing about how USC has a shot at winning three straight national championships. They only won 1. So they got screwed, and didnt play LSU that year, deal with it folks.

If OU had won the AP title that year I am quite sure Oklahoma would claim that as a national title. Also USC does have a chance at three AP National Titles....

JW · 10-02-2005, 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

Speaking of this, I am sick and tired of hearing about how USC has a shot at winning three straight national championships. They only won 1. So they got screwed, and didnt play LSU that year, deal with it folks.

You are not supposed to say that on this forum. Some people get mad.

Airhog · 10-02-2005, 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

If OU had won the AP title that year I am quite sure Oklahoma would claim that as a national title. Also USC does have a chance at three AP National Titles....

True, they did win three AP titles, but those don't count! Honestly, all college football teams in DIV IA agreed that the BCS Title game would determine the True National Champion. And when the media says they are trying to win their third title, they never say "USC is going for its third consecutive AP National Title". They always say, "USC is going for its third consecutive National Title". Which is a big difference IMHO. Now I cannot speak for the university, and what they might say. But as an OU fan, If we ended up first in the AP poll, and didnt win the title game, I would not say that we won a title that year, because in all reality, we didnt win the only reconized title game.

Noop · 10-02-2005, 02:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

True, they did win three AP titles, but those don't count! Honestly, all college football teams in DIV IA agreed that the BCS Title game would determine the True National Champion. And when the media says they are trying to win their third title, they never say "USC is going for its third consecutive AP National Title". They always say, "USC is going for its third consecutive National Title". Which is a big difference IMHO. Now I cannot speak for the university, and what they might say. But as an OU fan, If we ended up first in the AP poll, and didnt win the title game, I would not say that we won a title that year, because in all reality, we didnt win the only reconized title game.

Well I am not sure I agree with you. But I will say this if Oklahoma finished unbeaten and managed to be given the AP's national title I can't help for feel Oklahoma would recongize(sp?) it. The AP has more history behind it then the BCS does and for a long time it(the AP) was viewed as one of the two polls giving a national championship. But hey what do I know I am just a blind homer.

Airhog · 10-02-2005, 02:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noop

Well I am not sure I agree with you. But I will say this if Oklahoma finished unbeaten and managed to be given the AP's national title I can't help for feel Oklahoma would recongize(sp?) it. The AP has more history behind it then the BCS does and for a long time it(the AP) was viewed as one of the two polls giving a national championship. But hey what do I know I am just a blind homer.

In the past, I would have agreed with you. But since the creation of the BCS, I just don't feel the same way.

Galaxy · 10-02-2005, 03:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

True, they did win three AP titles, but those don't count! Honestly, all college football teams in DIV IA agreed that the BCS Title game would determine the True National Champion. And when the media says they are trying to win their third title, they never say "USC is going for its third consecutive AP National Title". They always say, "USC is going for its third consecutive National Title". Which is a big difference IMHO. Now I cannot speak for the university, and what they might say. But as an OU fan, If we ended up first in the AP poll, and didnt win the title game, I would not say that we won a title that year, because in all reality, we didnt win the only reconized title game.

The problem is that they HAVE to agree to vote for the national championship of the game in the Coaches poll.

dawgfan · 10-02-2005, 05:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

True, they did win three AP titles, but those don't count!

And here's what discounts your argument - the BCS title doesn't "count" either, since the NCAA doesn't recognize an official football national champion. In the end, even with the BCS, we still are left with an unofficial system.

sterlingice · 10-02-2005, 06:14 PM

So what does this have to do with Polish people in the NCAA?

SI

bronconick · 10-02-2005, 06:56 PM

If USC wants to claim back to back national championships thus far, they and the Pac-10 should never have agreed to abide by the BCS rules. "Well, we agree to this setup, but if we get screwed in our eyes, we reserve the right to bitch, whine, and claim a part of a national championship outside of the system we agreed to previously ".

cthomer5000 · 10-02-2005, 06:57 PM

I really don't want to be talking about other guys' poles. :vomit:

Cringer · 10-02-2005, 06:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

poll

Maybe he posted after having gone to a strip club.

dawgfan · 10-02-2005, 07:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick

If USC wants to claim back to back national championships thus far, they and the Pac-10 should never have agreed to abide by the BCS rules. "Well, we agree to this setup, but if we get screwed in our eyes, we reserve the right to bitch, whine, and claim a part of a national championship outside of the system we agreed to previously ".

Your argument would have merit if the BCS crowned an official national champion in the eyes of the NCAA. Since it doesn't, the BCS is ultimately just another opinion just like the AP poll.

Airhog · 10-02-2005, 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Your argument would have merit if the BCS crowned an official national champion in the eyes of the NCAA. Since it doesn't, the BCS is ultimately just another opinion just like the AP poll.

I have to disagree here. Did all of the major conferences agree to reconize the AP poll as the national champion? No. The NCAA is nothing more than a regulatory body. I don't really think it matters if what the NCAA thinks, as their opinion is no more valid than the schools that play each other in this regard. If the schools decided that the winner of the BCS game played between the #1 and #2 schools is the national champion, then that is what matters.

bronconick · 10-02-2005, 07:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dawgfan

Your argument would have merit if the BCS crowned an official national champion in the eyes of the NCAA. Since it doesn't, the BCS is ultimately just another opinion just like the AP poll.

The BCS conferences agreed that the #1 and #2 teams in that poll would play for the National Championship. That made that National championship as official as you'll get, and relegates the AP poll to something equal to the Dunkel Index or the Massey Ratings, if more well known.

dawgfan · 10-02-2005, 07:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bronconick

The BCS conferences agreed that the #1 and #2 teams in that poll would play for the National Championship. That made that National championship as official as you'll get, and relegates the AP poll to something equal to the Dunkel Index or the Massey Ratings, if more well known.

No, they agreed to revamp the bowl lineup to try and present and #1 vs. #2 matchup, with the coaches poll obligated to vote for the winner of the game as #1. There still is no official national champion crowned by the NCAA in football.

The BCS is an attempt to better determine the final #1 in the polls in lieu of a playoff, but it's still an unofficial process.

The AP poll is no different than it's ever been - no less or more credible than before the BCS. The AP poll is flawed just like every poll, but so is the BCS system.

While you might consider the BCS to carry more credibility than the AP poll given the cooperation of the BCS conferences in making the system happen, it's still unofficial. Hence, there shouldn't be any outcry when the media say that USC is aiming for it's 3rd straight national championship - in the eyes of the AP poll, the longest running and still most widely known, that statement is true. It would be more accurate for these stories to clarify that USC is aiming for their 3rd straight AP national championship and 2nd straight BCS title, but that's a pretty minor quibble.

dawgfan · 10-02-2005, 07:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Airhog

I have to disagree here. Did all of the major conferences agree to reconize the AP poll as the national champion? No. The NCAA is nothing more than a regulatory body. I don't really think it matters if what the NCAA thinks, as their opinion is no more valid than the schools that play each other in this regard. If the schools decided that the winner of the BCS game played between the #1 and #2 schools is the national champion, then that is what matters.

Really? I guess the national championships in all other NCAA sports that are officially recognized should just be considered nothing more than one body's opinion then as well, right?

I think you're overstating what the schools have agreed to anyway - they agreed to a system to attempt to match the #1 and #2 schools in a bowl with the Coaches poll obligated to vote the winner as #1. That doesn't necessarily mean they agree that the winner is the "national champion", only that the BCS is the best compromise they could arrive at in trying to provide a more clear cut #1, flaws and all.

nilodor · 10-02-2005, 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

poll

Sorry, I knew it looked wrong but I just blanked on the correct spelling.

Huckleberry · 10-02-2005, 08:37 PM

No need to apologize. It happens.

I've found the best way to correct something like that is to just post the proper spelling. No need to give you any grief. Wouldn't have said anything if it hadn't been repeated.

10-02-2005, 02:05 PM	#3
nilodor College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: calgary, AB	I thought the whole purpose of the BCS was to get rid of split national champions between the coaches and the AP poll. If there was no BCS poll and coaches poll, would there still be the same amount of controversy? There wouldn't be any split national champions. Last edited by nilodor : 10-02-2005 at 08:33 PM.

10-02-2005, 02:05 PM	#4
Airhog Captain Obvious Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Norman, Oklahoma	Speaking of this, I am sick and tired of hearing about how USC has a shot at winning three straight national championships. They only won 1. So they got screwed, and didnt play LSU that year, deal with it folks. __________________ Thread Killer extraordinaire Yay! its football season once again!

10-02-2005, 02:07 PM	#5
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	poll __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

10-02-2005, 06:14 PM	#14
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	So what does this have to do with Polish people in the NCAA? SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

10-02-2005, 08:37 PM	#24
Huckleberry College Starter Join Date: Dec 2001	No need to apologize. It happens. I've found the best way to correct something like that is to just post the proper spelling. No need to give you any grief. Wouldn't have said anything if it hadn't been repeated. __________________ The one thing all your failed relationships have in common is you. The Barking Carnival (Longhorn-centered sports blog) College Football Adjusted Stats and Ratings

10-02-2005, 01:30 PM	#2
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	The BCS only considered their champ as the true college natl champ. But obviously, the media controls everything and the AP poll is older. So winning a share of it, is obviously better than not at all. The BCS was supposed to alleviate this problem, but without one playoff it obviously won't happen. __________________ Current dynasty: Up The Scots: Play To Clinch Tennis Dynasty \| OOTP Mod: Managerial Strategy Files \| GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

10-02-2005, 06:56 PM	#15
bronconick College Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Kalamazoo, MI	If USC wants to claim back to back national championships thus far, they and the Pac-10 should never have agreed to abide by the BCS rules. "Well, we agree to this setup, but if we get screwed in our eyes, we reserve the right to bitch, whine, and claim a part of a national championship outside of the system we agreed to previously ".

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