Fantasy Trade Help

Bea-Arthurs Hip · 10-11-2005, 12:26 PM

Need some advice..

Received the following offer:

Other GM Offered:

Drew Brees
Kevin Jones
Steve Smith

For My Guys:

Peyton Manning
Chris Brown
Mushin Muhammad

I want to take this offer but I fear Peyton lighting it up circa 2004 after he leaves my squad...Thoughts???

rkmsuf · 10-11-2005, 12:30 PM

Steve Smith is a monster. Muhammed is junk on the Bears. score one for you.

Neither Jones nor Brown pump my nads but you'd think Brown is on more shaky ground and gets hurt. score another one for you.

Manning vs Brees comes down to the scoring system I guess but no matter you lose out there.

If you'd tell me Jones lights it up like the end of last year I'd do it in a second though.

WSUCougar · 10-11-2005, 12:30 PM

I'd take that offer in a heartbeat.

Raven · 10-11-2005, 01:19 PM

Smith is having an amazing fantasy season. So far he has 6 TDs, and should probably have 9 or so, if you saw what happened to him the first couple of weeks. Muhammed has 1 TD. Muhammed may not get more than 5 all year with no QB.

Jones is better than Brown.

You can't expect Peyton to put up the same numbers he did last year. Brees is no slouch at QB. The reason you are being offered this trade, is the same reason the other guy wants it - It's all about the "what if with Peyton..." If at some point you decide Peyton won't be a stud this season, everyone else will probably already have come to that conclusion as well, and he will lose most of his trade value.

You should be all over this trade.

Hammer755 · 10-11-2005, 01:24 PM

Drew Brees < Peyton Manning
Kevin Jones >>> Chris Brown
Steve Smith >>> Mushin Muhammad

The >>>'s win.

Anthony · 10-11-2005, 02:04 PM

i wouldn't do it.

1. this trade is essentially upgrading Chris Brown into Kevin Jones.
2. Steve Smith vs. Muhammed - in my book, and in the books of other experts, unless you have one of the big 3 (or 4 if you consider Chad Johnson elite), the difference in production from 5-15 is unpredictable on any given week. Panthers are a running team, and are a good team. good teams don't need to pass as often as bad teams cuz good teams use the run to eat up the clock.
3. in any other year, if someone were to offer you Brees for Manning you'd insult them. just cuz Peyton's stock is low doesn't mean you sell. you hold on. he's a blue chip. he'll get his td's. will he get 49 td's? no. will he get 30 td's? maybe, maybe not. will he get you tons of completions and passing yards? fuck yeah.

also consider:

- Peyton doesn't get hurt. he has the 2nd longest active consecutive games played streak.
- Peyton doesn't have good backup to make him have to look over his shoulder. Manning will the QB from now until the next 10 years. Brees...who knows. they're not paying Philip Rivers to look pretty on the bench, i'll tell you that much.

only fantasy rookies get scared and trade a guy like Peyton. that's why i wound up with Daunte Culpepper for David Carr and Chris Cooley. i feast on guys like you. slap yourself in the face and pretend you never considered this bad offer.

rkmsuf · 10-11-2005, 02:10 PM

I think you are selling Steve Smith short here. And myself, I'd be fearful that Chris Brown gets hurt and/or benched.

Another factor is the makeup of the rest of his team.

Hammer755 · 10-11-2005, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I think you are selling Steve Smith short here. And myself, I'd be fearful that Chris Brown gets hurt and/or benched.

Another factor is the makeup of the rest of his team.

Not to mention the fact that Muhammed has absolutely nobody on his team that can get him the ball.

Anthony · 10-11-2005, 02:18 PM

my rule of thumb is you don't trade a guy who is in the top 3 of his position and not get back a bunch of players who aren't in the top 10 of their position. a WR isn't as valuable as a QB. the order is RB, then QB, then WR. any given week any WR can light it up or stink it up.

Manning is essentially the top QB in the game, even fantasy-wise. you don't trade him for a hot WR on a run oriented team. Smith will basically get what Muhammed got last year (if he's lucky). compare that to Peyton's career averages, and you tell me which you'd rather have.

if he doesn't like Brown, there are other ways to improve that. the only way i'd consider that offer would be if it was all three guys for Peyton. he's that valuable. kevin jones hasn't even cracked 100 yards this year, yeesh.

rkmsuf · 10-11-2005, 02:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Not to mention the fact that Muhammed has absolutely nobody on his team that can get him the ball.

Talk about a running team....that's Chicago. The great thing about Carolina is that they kind of play to their competition...up or down and keep games close. That's a recipe for stat goodness. Also Delhomme tends to lock onto one guy...see Mushin last year with no Smith and just feed the guy. That's what you want, not this spread the ball around stuff. Not to mention that Smith is a freak and very talented.

Hammer755 · 10-11-2005, 02:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

my rule of thumb is you don't trade a guy who is in the top 3 of his position and not get back a bunch of players who aren't in the top 10 of their position. a WR isn't as valuable as a QB. the order is RB, then QB, then WR. any given week any WR can light it up or stink it up.

Manning is essentially the top QB in the game, even fantasy-wise. you don't trade him for a hot WR on a run oriented team. Smith will basically get what Muhammed got last year (if he's lucky). compare that to Peyton's career averages, and you tell me which you'd rather have.

if he doesn't like Brown, there are other ways to improve that. the only way i'd consider that offer would be if it was all three guys for Peyton. he's that valuable. kevin jones hasn't even cracked 100 yards this year, yeesh.

In the grand scheme of things, yards mean very little in FF - it's all about the touchdowns, and Kevin Jones is going to get the touchdowns. Fred Taylor has twice as many yards as Jones, but KJ has been the more valuable back so far. And you are contradicting yourself - you say that RB is the most important position on the team, which I agree with, but then downplay the value of Kevin Jones.

The difference between Jones & Brown is huge. The difference between Smith & Muhammad is huge. The sum of those two is greater than the difference between Manning & Brees, particularly the way Manning has played thus far.

WSUCougar · 10-11-2005, 02:49 PM

Smith is on a pace for 105 catches and 19 TDs.

gottimd · 10-11-2005, 06:20 PM

I would take that in a heartbeat, especially since my recent Running Back situation has got me so frustrated. I had McCallister and my backups are Ronnie Brown and Willie Parker. My team just went from 4-1 to 0 for the remainder of the season. There ain't shit on the waiver wire either.

kcchief19 · 10-11-2005, 06:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Smith is on a pace for 105 catches and 19 TDs.

This is precisely why I classify this as a case of buying high and selling low. This trade isn't about the running backs; it's about Smith vs. Manning. This guy is trying to get Peyton Manning when he's undervalued in exchange for Smith when he is overvalued.

It's about what you think about these two guys. If you think Smith is going to catch 109 balls and score 19 TDs, make the trade.

It seems more likely to me that Smith will cool off once teams make adjustments to him, and that Peyton will heat up now that the toughest part of the Colts' schedule is behind him.

But to make the call, you need to look at the rest of your team and your scoring system. Will Smith bring more points at WR vs. the guy you are currently playing at that position than you lose at QB by going from Manning to Brees?

Anthony · 10-11-2005, 07:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

This is precisely why I classify this as a case of buying high and selling low. This trade isn't about the running backs; it's about Smith vs. Manning. This guy is trying to get Peyton Manning when he's undervalued in exchange for Smith when he is overvalued.

It's about what you think about these two guys. If you think Smith is going to catch 109 balls and score 19 TDs, make the trade.

It seems more likely to me that Smith will cool off once teams make adjustments to him, and that Peyton will heat up now that the toughest part of the Colts' schedule is behind him.

But to make the call, you need to look at the rest of your team and your scoring system. Will Smith bring more points at WR vs. the guy you are currently playing at that position than you lose at QB by going from Manning to Brees?

BINGO.

WSUCougar · 10-11-2005, 07:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcchief19

This is precisely why I classify this as a case of buying high and selling low. This trade isn't about the running backs; it's about Smith vs. Manning. This guy is trying to get Peyton Manning when he's undervalued in exchange for Smith when he is overvalued.

Of course. No other way you even get a sniff for a Peyton offer. That's understood.

Quote:

It's about what you think about these two guys. If you think Smith is going to catch 109 balls and score 19 TDs, make the trade.

I disagree with your premise. I think this is the obvious part.

Quote:

It seems more likely to me that Smith will cool off once teams make adjustments to him, and that Peyton will heat up now that the toughest part of the Colts' schedule is behind him.

Yup. Although Smith is currently en fuego, it's very unlikely he can continue that pace. And likewise, Peyton is bound to improve his numbers. But I quoted Smith's pace to counter HA's statement about Smith coming from a running team.

Quote:

But to make the call, you need to look at the rest of your team and your scoring system. Will Smith bring more points at WR vs. the guy you are currently playing at that position than you lose at QB by going from Manning to Brees?

Given the offer, I was assuming these were all regular starters. I feel that Smith upgrades significantly over Muhammed and Jones upgrades significantly over Brown. Manning (1123 yards, 7 TDs, 4 INTs) presumably upgrades over Brees (1042 yards, 7/4) on potential.

Anthony · 10-11-2005, 07:52 PM

you're wrong Coug. Manning definitely upgrades over Brees on proven track record.

Bea-Arthurs Hip · 10-11-2005, 10:30 PM

Thanks for the replys fellas...

I didnt take the offer but I am thinking of pulling the trigger on another one ..I am afraid to list it because I dont want to get yelled at by that Hell Atlantic guy

...He is scary.

Hammer755 · 10-11-2005, 10:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

you're wrong Coug. Manning definitely upgrades over Brees on proven track record.

Of course Manning is an upgrade. I just feel that the combination of Jones & Smith add a bigger positive than Brees does a negative. Of course Smith is going to slow down, but even at a reduced rate he is head and shoulders above Mohammad. And the difference between Jones & Brown is way more than you're recognizing, IMO.

WSUCougar · 10-12-2005, 07:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hammer755

Of course Manning is an upgrade. I just feel that the combination of Jones & Smith add a bigger positive than Brees does a negative. Of course Smith is going to slow down, but even at a reduced rate he is head and shoulders above Mohammad. And the difference between Jones & Brown is way more than you're recognizing, IMO.

BINGO.

Bea Arthurs Hips Bro · 10-12-2005, 08:27 AM

My brother sent me to the site to review the comments here as I am the one who made him the offer. I made him the offer based on the fact that I have sufficient depth at Running Back (M. Moore now starting for Vikes) and receiver (D. Branch to replace Smith, a downgrade but big week potential) and the fact that I had anothe deal in place to grab Lamont Smith for my STARTING Quarterback T. Collins.

Here is what Bea is NOT telling you:

The offer I made was Collins, Jones and Smith for Manning and ANY TWO other players on his roster he would have waived (his choices were Brown and Muhammed, he also could have replaced either of those players with his back up T-End, Troupe) OR Edgerin James, Brees and and other receiver on my roster besides Smith (D. Jackson, Branch or Rod Smith) for Manning and any other two players.

My reasoning was I had other trades in place that would have made my starters:

Manning
E. James
L. Jordan
D. Jackson (now hurt)
Branch
Heap.

A pretty formidable roster that is a bit weak where you can afford to be weak each week, WR.

I made a very bold and considerable offer for Manning, which is what you need to do to get him.

I will let Bea decide if he wants to tell you the trade he actually ACCEPTED, which in my opinion, is a considerably worse deal for him.

Sorry for the long first post, but I wanted to make sure everyone could properly evaluate a deal that he was hoping to hear from everyone he should not take.

Bea Arthurs Bro aka Matt

rkmsuf · 10-12-2005, 08:46 AM

I hear Lamont Smith has mad skilz.

GreenMonster · 10-12-2005, 10:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I hear Lamont Smith has mad skilz.

He has been a beast for me these last couple of weeks... Not only does he score and get yards, but he picked up a couple of FG's too, really adding to my totals..

GreenMonster · 10-12-2005, 10:09 AM

What do you guys think of this trade

S. Alexander
C. Johnson

for:

Edge
S. Davis
Wayne

I don't like this trade although I am trying to upgrade my WR's, I won't be giving up Wayne. ? is do you think I need a bigtime WR.. My WR's are Wayne, Mushin, Mason, and Porter all who have been crap so far. I do have depth at RB with Edge, S. Davis, Caddy, J. Lewis, W. Parker, M. Shipp... I can start 3 RB's a week, so I have been picking the best matchups and then running over people.

10-11-2005, 12:30 PM	#2
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	Steve Smith is a monster. Muhammed is junk on the Bears. score one for you. Neither Jones nor Brown pump my nads but you'd think Brown is on more shaky ground and gets hurt. score another one for you. Manning vs Brees comes down to the scoring system I guess but no matter you lose out there. If you'd tell me Jones lights it up like the end of last year I'd do it in a second though. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

10-11-2005, 12:30 PM	#3
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	I'd take that offer in a heartbeat. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

10-11-2005, 01:24 PM	#5
Hammer755 High School Varsity Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: Houston, TX	Drew Brees < Peyton Manning Kevin Jones >>> Chris Brown Steve Smith >>> Mushin Muhammad The >>>'s win. __________________ I failed Signature 101 class.

10-11-2005, 02:04 PM	#6
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	i wouldn't do it. 1. this trade is essentially upgrading Chris Brown into Kevin Jones. 2. Steve Smith vs. Muhammed - in my book, and in the books of other experts, unless you have one of the big 3 (or 4 if you consider Chad Johnson elite), the difference in production from 5-15 is unpredictable on any given week. Panthers are a running team, and are a good team. good teams don't need to pass as often as bad teams cuz good teams use the run to eat up the clock. 3. in any other year, if someone were to offer you Brees for Manning you'd insult them. just cuz Peyton's stock is low doesn't mean you sell. you hold on. he's a blue chip. he'll get his td's. will he get 49 td's? no. will he get 30 td's? maybe, maybe not. will he get you tons of completions and passing yards? fuck yeah. also consider: - Peyton doesn't get hurt. he has the 2nd longest active consecutive games played streak. - Peyton doesn't have good backup to make him have to look over his shoulder. Manning will the QB from now until the next 10 years. Brees...who knows. they're not paying Philip Rivers to look pretty on the bench, i'll tell you that much. only fantasy rookies get scared and trade a guy like Peyton. that's why i wound up with Daunte Culpepper for David Carr and Chris Cooley. i feast on guys like you. slap yourself in the face and pretend you never considered this bad offer. Last edited by Anthony : 10-11-2005 at 02:06 PM.

10-11-2005, 02:10 PM	#7
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I think you are selling Steve Smith short here. And myself, I'd be fearful that Chris Brown gets hurt and/or benched. Another factor is the makeup of the rest of his team. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

10-11-2005, 01:19 PM	#4
Raven College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Baltimore, MD	Smith is having an amazing fantasy season. So far he has 6 TDs, and should probably have 9 or so, if you saw what happened to him the first couple of weeks. Muhammed has 1 TD. Muhammed may not get more than 5 all year with no QB. Jones is better than Brown. You can't expect Peyton to put up the same numbers he did last year. Brees is no slouch at QB. The reason you are being offered this trade, is the same reason the other guy wants it - It's all about the "what if with Peyton..." If at some point you decide Peyton won't be a stud this season, everyone else will probably already have come to that conclusion as well, and he will lose most of his trade value. You should be all over this trade.

10-11-2005, 02:18 PM	#9
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	my rule of thumb is you don't trade a guy who is in the top 3 of his position and not get back a bunch of players who aren't in the top 10 of their position. a WR isn't as valuable as a QB. the order is RB, then QB, then WR. any given week any WR can light it up or stink it up. Manning is essentially the top QB in the game, even fantasy-wise. you don't trade him for a hot WR on a run oriented team. Smith will basically get what Muhammed got last year (if he's lucky). compare that to Peyton's career averages, and you tell me which you'd rather have. if he doesn't like Brown, there are other ways to improve that. the only way i'd consider that offer would be if it was all three guys for Peyton. he's that valuable. kevin jones hasn't even cracked 100 yards this year, yeesh.

10-11-2005, 02:49 PM	#12
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	Smith is on a pace for 105 catches and 19 TDs. __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

10-11-2005, 06:20 PM	#13
gottimd Dearly Missed (9/25/77-12/23/08) Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: DC Suburbs	I would take that in a heartbeat, especially since my recent Running Back situation has got me so frustrated. I had McCallister and my backups are Ronnie Brown and Willie Parker. My team just went from 4-1 to 0 for the remainder of the season. There ain't shit on the waiver wire either. __________________ NAFL New Orleans Saints GM/Co-Commish MP Career Record: 114-85 NAFL Super Bowl XI Champs In memory of Gavin Anthony: 7/22/08-7/26/08

10-11-2005, 07:52 PM	#17
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	you're wrong Coug. Manning definitely upgrades over Brees on proven track record.

10-11-2005, 10:30 PM	#18
Bea-Arthurs Hip H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: The D	Thanks for the replys fellas... I didnt take the offer but I am thinking of pulling the trigger on another one ..I am afraid to list it because I dont want to get yelled at by that Hell Atlantic guy ...He is scary.

10-12-2005, 08:27 AM	#21
Bea Arthurs Hips Bro n00b Join Date: Oct 2005	My brother sent me to the site to review the comments here as I am the one who made him the offer. I made him the offer based on the fact that I have sufficient depth at Running Back (M. Moore now starting for Vikes) and receiver (D. Branch to replace Smith, a downgrade but big week potential) and the fact that I had anothe deal in place to grab Lamont Smith for my STARTING Quarterback T. Collins. Here is what Bea is NOT telling you: The offer I made was Collins, Jones and Smith for Manning and ANY TWO other players on his roster he would have waived (his choices were Brown and Muhammed, he also could have replaced either of those players with his back up T-End, Troupe) OR Edgerin James, Brees and and other receiver on my roster besides Smith (D. Jackson, Branch or Rod Smith) for Manning and any other two players. My reasoning was I had other trades in place that would have made my starters: Manning E. James L. Jordan D. Jackson (now hurt) Branch Heap. A pretty formidable roster that is a bit weak where you can afford to be weak each week, WR. I made a very bold and considerable offer for Manning, which is what you need to do to get him. I will let Bea decide if he wants to tell you the trade he actually ACCEPTED, which in my opinion, is a considerably worse deal for him. Sorry for the long first post, but I wanted to make sure everyone could properly evaluate a deal that he was hoping to hear from everyone he should not take. Bea Arthurs Bro aka Matt Last edited by Bea Arthurs Hips Bro : 10-12-2005 at 08:33 AM.

10-12-2005, 08:46 AM	#22
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I hear Lamont Smith has mad skilz. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

10-12-2005, 10:09 AM	#24
GreenMonster High School Varsity Join Date: Mar 2005	What do you guys think of this trade S. Alexander C. Johnson for: Edge S. Davis Wayne I don't like this trade although I am trying to upgrade my WR's, I won't be giving up Wayne. ? is do you think I need a bigtime WR.. My WR's are Wayne, Mushin, Mason, and Porter all who have been crap so far. I do have depth at RB with Edge, S. Davis, Caddy, J. Lewis, W. Parker, M. Shipp... I can start 3 RB's a week, so I have been picking the best matchups and then running over people.

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