Jim Edmonds' Ejection

[WSUCougar]

What a total, absolute crock.

I'm trying to not be a homer, but I'm fairly sure I'd feel the same way if, say, Morgan Ensberg got tossed by the umpire at a key moment late in Game 4 of the NLCS.

No excuses for the Cards on the loss, by the way. I just think the umpiring was terrible and Edmonds getting run was ridiculous.

[Huckleberry]

I agree. But at the same time Edmonds dropped an f-bomb on the umpire. He can't complain.

[stevew]

Jim Edmonds' Ejaculation?

What a total, absolute cock.

[johnnyshaka]

Yup...Jimmy was getting the short end of the stick up there...but, still no excuse for what he did...VERY silly to get tossed over balls and strikes in the playoffs...it doesn't do ANYBODY any good.

[Crapshoot]

It was a god awful umpiring performance. Someone should tell these jackasses that they aren't paid to be the show - assholes like Cuzzi should recognize that there job is not to change the gameplay unless the guy does something ridiculous.

[Maple Leafs]

Edmonds decided to argue a call during an at-bat. Not after he was out, but during the at-bat. And he didn't just go to the box and throw a few words over his shoulder, he had to go nose-to-nose with the ump to make sure everyone knew what he was doing. It seemed from the replay that the ump told him "get back in the box", and he replied with an f-bomb. I don't care what the game situation is, that's going to get you tossed 100 times out of 100.

[MizzouRah]

BS, complete BS.

Look at me, I'm on ESPN!! Woo Hoo!!!!

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Edmonds decided to argue a call during an at-bat. Not after he was out, but during the at-bat. And he didn't just go to the box and throw a few words over his shoulder, he had to go nose-to-nose with the ump to make sure everyone knew what he was doing. It seemed from the replay that the ump told him "get back in the box", and he replied with an f-bomb. I don't care what the game situation is, that's going to get you tossed 100 times out of 100.

This I agree with.

[WSUCougar]

So Maple Leafs, you think Edmonds should just take the ass-pounding like a trooper? That was an outrageously bad strike call at a key moment in a playoff game and series. I'm not condoning what Edmonds did but the umpire should have been bigger than that. Instead, he had a quick trigger and tossed him like any other game.

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

So Maple Leafs, you think Edmonds should just take the ass-pounding like a trooper? That was an outrageously bad strike call at a key moment in a playoff game and series. I'm not condoning what Edmonds did but the umpire should have been bigger than that. Instead, he had a quick trigger and tossed him like any other game.

I dunno. I think he got in an upire's face to argue balls and strikes.

This should be on a quiz they give guys in the minor leagues. "What happens to you when you stand in the umpire's face to argue balls and strikes?"

There really is only one answer. No matter the game or the game situation. You try to show up the umpire, you will get tossed.

[st.cronin]

Jim Edmonds is not the umpire, and is required to submit to the umpire's judgement. If the call were correct, would his ejection have been justified? That's nonsense. Arguing balls and strikes will get you ejected, even if you're right, even in the playoffs. I like Edmonds, but he has no case here; he was an ass and got what he was asking for.

[QuikSand]

No parody thread yet... there's hope for us yet.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

So Maple Leafs, you think Edmonds should just take the ass-pounding like a trooper?

Yes.

I don't care if the ball was three feet inside (instead of a few inches), he has to think about the team first. Argue if you want, but as soon as the ump tells you to get back in the box then you turn around, shut your mouth and get back in the box.

Your team's entire season is on the line, now is not the time to show what a tough guy you are by refusing to back down from the ump.

[pennywisesb]

With the way he reacted to the call, there is no way Edmonds does not get tossed at that point. I don't care if its in the playoffs or whatever, you just can't do that to an ump and expect to get away with it.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

With the way he reacted to the call, there is no way Edmonds does not get tossed at that point. I don't care if its in the playoffs or whatever, you just can't do that to an ump and expect to get away with it.

What game were you watching? He didn't kick dirt on him, spit in his face, nor bump him. He argued for a min and BAM! he was ejected out of the game.

That's bullshit you can't make a few comments without getting tossed so quickly. You can't tell me that ump didn't want to be the center of attention.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What game were you watching? He didn't kick dirt on him, spit in his face, nor bump him. He argued for a min and BAM! he was ejected out of the game.

That's bullshit you can't make a few comments without getting tossed so quickly. You can't tell me that ump didn't want to be the center of attention.

The umpire told him to get back in the box (basically a warning, without actually using the word "warning") and Edmonds decided to continue arguing. What would you do if you were the ump MizzouRah? Give him an additional warning? Its a fact that arguing balls and strikes will get you ejected. I would have thrown his ass out right then and there too, and I'm a huge Edmonds fan.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

Its a fact that arguing balls and strikes will get you ejected.

Bingo.

[Cards4ever]

What bullshit, the Umpire should have turned and walked away and let the Cardinal coaches pull him away. If Edmonds had bumped him, then yes, toss him, but it looked more like a discussion then anything else.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yes.

I don't care if the ball was three feet inside (instead of a few inches), he has to think about the team first. Argue if you want, but as soon as the ump tells you to get back in the box then you turn around, shut your mouth and get back in the box.

Your team's entire season is on the line, now is not the time to show what a tough guy you are by refusing to back down from the ump.

Couldn't have said it better.

Arguing balls and strikes at all levels of baseball is a zero-tolerance act that will get you tossed. I think the ump showed remarkable tolerance. It's one thing if a batter goes about his business and says a call is BS and argues with the umpire but nobody knows it because it isn't obvious. It's another thing when you stop the at-bat and start arguing. And even then Edmonds didn't get run. It wasn't until the umpire said the argument was over and told him to get back in the box and Edmonds cursed at him that he tossed him. Sean is absolutely right -- this will get you run every single time, whether it's the bottom of the ninth of game seven of the World Series or a cold, dreary April night in Kansas City.

[Cards4ever]

Originally Posted by pennywisesb

The umpire told him to get back in the box (basically a warning, without actually using the word "warning") and Edmonds decided to continue arguing. What would you do if you were the ump MizzouRah? Give him an additional warning? Its a fact that arguing balls and strikes will get you ejected. I would have thrown his ass out right then and there too, and I'm a huge Edmonds fan.

This isn't Little League where players are told to never question umpires either, to throw a player out like that is ridiculous.

[kcchief19]

I was actually going to start a conversation about the Cardinals' meltdown in this series, and I think what I was going to say is already in evidence.

I readily admit I'm the anti-homer because I hate the Cardinals with a passion, but this is exactly why. It's bad enough that the organization is cocky and arrogant, but their fans are just as bad. Cougar, MizzouRah -- I love you guys and I think you're fantastic. Two of my best friends are Cardinals fans. I don't think this reflects on you as people, I think it's just an unfortunate character trait that your fan base seems to possess -- you're all bad losers when it comes to your baseball team.

By comparison, look at our Missouri Tigers. Mention the Fifth Down or Tyus Edney or the The Kick to a Tigers fan and you might get an initial curse word followed by a misting of the eyes. When things go against us, we have "Here we go again" mentality and cry ourselves to sleep. But mention Don Denkinger to a Cardinals fan and you're going to get your head torn off and a Imo's Pizza shoved up your ass, if you're lucky. It's a different mindset, even if it's the same people.

This team is just like its fans -- first bit of adversity and they fold-up and start pitching fits. I think the Cardinals are like the Oakland Raiders -- I think the team gets their attitude from the fans. The next Cardinals fan or player who admits that Edmonds deserved to get tossed will be the first, and I don't think it will happen.

I love you guys, but being a Cardinals fan apparently means putting all reason and commonsense aside.

[scooter]

Your discussion here is lacking a little bit more of the situation. The manager had been tossed previously for arguing balls and strikes, so the entire Cardinals team had been warned. Any further questioning of balls/strikes calls by the Cardinals (or the Astros for that matter) was probably going to result in an ejection. The atmosphere of the game is a very important part of this "discussion".

As far as where I stand on the issue, Edmonds deserved to be ejected. There is no way around it.

[Cards4ever]

The Cards are where they deserve to be, down 3-1, I don't think anyone is saying anything different. What we are saying is, it's shitty to throw someone out like that, ANY team.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Cougar, MizzouRah -- I love you guys and I think you're fantastic. Two of my best friends are Cardinals fans. I don't think this reflects on you as people, I think it's just an unfortunate character trait that your fan base seems to possess -- you're all bad losers when it comes to your baseball team.

This team is just like its fans -- first bit of adversity and they fold-up and start pitching fits. I think the Cardinals are like the Oakland Raiders -- I think the team gets their attitude from the fans. The next Cardinals fan or player who admits that Edmonds deserved to get tossed will be the first, and I don't think it will happen.

I love you guys, but being a Cardinals fan apparently means putting all reason and commonsense aside.

Okay, you're the second person here to call me, directly or indirectly, a bad loser, and I must say that I am genuinely offended. The fact that Edmonds is a Cardinal is irrelevant. I said it in the initial post:

I'm fairly sure I'd feel the same way if, say, Morgan Ensberg got tossed by the umpire at a key moment late in Game 4 of the NLCS.

And yes, EDMONDS DESERVED TO BE TOSSED. I admit that! Read my lips: I AM A CARDINAL FAN AND I ADMIT THAT. Alert the media! What I am saying is that in spite of having every right to toss a player for that offense, the umpire should make every effort NOT to do so. Why do you think games are called so differently in the playoffs in virtually every sport?

[Cuckoo]

Although the call was a really poor one, I agree with the fact that Edmonds deserved to get tossed.

As for the arguments that the umpire should have turned his back and let the coaches pull Edmonds off, maybe all of that is true if that at-bat is over. But this was in the middle of the at-bat, and Edmonds had his say and still refused to get back in the box.

[Huckleberry]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Why do you think games are called so differently in the playoffs in virtually every sport?

Which just so happens to be one of my main issues with virtually every sport.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

Which just so happens to be one of my main issues with virtually every sport.

...

[MizzouRah]

I truly don't believe he should have been tossed, sorry call me a homer. I am a friggin bad loser though, screw you Astros!!!! Love ya Jeebs.

In a normal season game, I'd bet anyone here Edmonds would NOT have been thrown out that soon. Oh well, Johnny load almost hit one out to end the discussion anyway.. but he didn't and that friggin Lidge escaped. I still have hope tonight, I'm not giving up!!!

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

But mention Don Denkinger to a Cardinals fan and you're going to get your head torn off and a Imo's Pizza shoved up your ass, if you're lucky.

Wow, these St Louis threads have a lot of improper objects shoved into improper places

SI

[WSUCougar]

But mention Don Denkinger to a Cardinals fan and you're going to get your head torn off and a Imo's Pizza shoved up your ass, if you're lucky.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Looks safe to me.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What game were you watching? He didn't kick dirt on him, spit in his face, nor bump him. He argued for a min and BAM! he was ejected out of the game.

That's bullshit you can't make a few comments without getting tossed so quickly. You can't tell me that ump didn't want to be the center of attention.

Great argument, except its not what happened.

"Make a few comments" and "Drop the F-Bomb" are perhaps different, wouldn't you agree?

At a meeting at work, they won't kick me out for making a few comments. They would do so for dropping the F-bomb. See the difference?

Argue it was a terrible ejection and I may not disagree. But at least argue the facts.

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Looks safe to me.

Then all you need is to be deaf and you'd have hit the trifecta.

[LoneStarGirl]

Umpires are human, just like we are! They can only take so much abuse and shit talking. I am sure the umpire was tired of being yelled at felt he had to do something. You can't blame the umpire for what he did, they aren't perfect. I am just suprised Cardinal fans aren't blaming the umpires for their losses

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I'm no Cardinal fan, but that call ended up costing me over $200 dollars.
Denkinger must DIE!! Well okay I know he's dead, but I still haven't been able to soften my heart toward that his role in that debacle.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

Denkinger must DIE!! Well okay I know he's dead, but I still haven't been able to soften my heart toward that his role in that debacle.

Geez, it was one bad call, and it was over ten years ago. You sports fans need to learn how to let things go.

/irony

[LoneStarGirl]

Denkinger isn't dead. They had a special on ESPN last night about him. He recieved death threats over a year after he had made that call. Some Cardinal fans are pathetic. And that call didn't cost the Cardinals the game... if they would have struck the next batter out, or just not panicked like they did, then they probably would have won.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Geez, it was one bad call, and it was over ten years ago. You sports fans need to learn how to let things go.

/irony

(ala IRC)
/me Yells "Kerry Fraser!"
*Maple Leafs goes into a crazed rage before settling into a corner in the fetal position, sucking his thumb*



SI

[Fouts]

I'm trying to remember a case where a player gets in the face of an umpire and doesn't get tossed. Can't think of one, because it always ends in ejection (I'm sure someone will post with a counter-example).

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by Samdari

Great argument, except its not what happened.

"Make a few comments" and "Drop the F-Bomb" are perhaps different, wouldn't you agree?

At a meeting at work, they won't kick me out for making a few comments. They would do so for dropping the F-bomb. See the difference?

Argue it was a terrible ejection and I may not disagree. But at least argue the facts.

Per Jim Edmonds

"I just asked why that was a strike when it hadn't been all day," Edmonds said. "I never cursed him, not once."

Edmonds said Cuzzi, who didn't comment after the game, did curse while telling him earlier not to talk to him about balls and strikes.

"I didn't get the response I deserved, so I tried to ask it again and he thought that was enough to throw me out of the game," Edmonds said. "I wasn't adamant or anything.

"I've been playing this game (in the majors) for 12 years. I know what's going on. I'm not trying to get thrown out of a playoff game. I was just trying to ask a question."

Argue those facts.

Maybe that was you behind home plate listening to the whole discussion.

[Butter]

I mostly hate the Cards because I hate Tony LaRussa. If anyone else manages that team, I'd be neutral on them.

Of course, the Astros have Craig Biggio on their team, the cheapest HBP man of our generation, and Roger Clemens, who I haven't liked since he was a fetus

A tough choice.

Go White Sox.

[pennywisesb]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Per Jim Edmonds
Argue those facts.

Maybe that was you behind home plate listening to the whole discussion.

When you watch the video its obvious Edmonds dropped an F-bomb. Give me a break. He can say whatever he wants, but its on video.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I see both feet off the ground and the ball in the mitt. Without knowing if he's coming down onto the bag, or going up to make the catch, I'd be hard-pressed to look at that picture and say that was a bad call.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

You don't happen to have any photos from later in the same inning, like Orta being forced out on a botched sacrifice bunt attempt by the Orioles, of Jack Clark dropping an easy pop foul, Darrel Porter letting a wild pitch going all the way back to the screen or Hal McRae taking an intentional walk to load the bases?

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

Per Jim Edmonds
Argue those facts.

Maybe that was you behind home plate listening to the whole discussion.

I'm not a great lip reader, but unless Edmonds was offering to "tuck" Cuzzi in for the the night and read him a bedtime story, the video doesn't support Edmonds' version of events.

Edmonds' version sounds a bit like Homer Simpson remembering something. I almost expect the next line in Edmonds' version to begin, "So then I said to the president of the United States ..."

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by MizzouRah

What game were you watching? He didn't kick dirt on him, spit in his face, nor bump him. He argued for a min and BAM! he was ejected out of the game.

That's bullshit you can't make a few comments without getting tossed so quickly. You can't tell me that ump didn't want to be the center of attention.

In one of Edmonds' previous at bats he looked back a couple of times and they had words then...so, I'm thinking this was an ongoing thing and umpie certainly wasn't going to take Edmonds' lip service a second time...and the fact that Tony had already been tossed for arguing. I don't think it was going to take much arguing this time around for Edmonds to get the boot.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

I'm not a great lip reader, but unless Edmonds was offering to "tuck" Cuzzi in for the the night and read him a bedtime story, the video doesn't support Edmonds' version of events.

Ok, I gotta admit. The "tuck" line had me laughing for a couple of minutes.

SI

[WSUCougar]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

In one of Edmonds' previous at bats he looked back a couple of times and they had words then

Just as an FYI, Edmonds does that on virtually every at-bat throughout the season. A lot of times he does it to see if a pitch he swung at would have been a called strike, but he tends to have an ongoing discussion with the umpires throughout the game.

Does anyone have a link to the video?

[Vince]

I don't think that Edmonds shouldn't have been ejected, but the ump had an AWFULLY quick trigger.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Vince

I don't think that Edmonds shouldn't have been ejected, but the ump had an AWFULLY quick trigger.

If a coach or player drops an F-bomb on me, as an umpire, he's gone at that moment. Shy of physical contact, you can say just about anything else you want to me and I'm probably not going to kick you out unless you refuse to let the matter drop, but that's my trigger for tossing somebody.

Foul language directed at me or one of my crew = shower time.