Court asked to rule on teen sex

MacroGuru · 10-20-2005, 03:06 PM

On the news this morning they had a report that a 13 year old girl and a 12 year old boy were both charged with Child Sex Abuse......for having sex with each other.....well, the girl ended up getting pregnant...the case is in court.....

Now for me, that is overkill....let me find an article on it though...

http://www.standard.net/standard/65662/

Quote:

Court asked to rule on teen sex

Thursday, October 20, 2005

By Tim Gurrister
Standard-Examiner staff
[email protected]

The Utah Court of Appeals was asked Wednesday to rule on the legality of a case of underage sex in Ogden. Very underage.

The case involves a 13-year-old girl and a 12-year-old boy, each considered both a perpetrator and a victim. The two had sex together several times. A child resulted from the intercourse and the girl, now 14, kept the baby.

Both were charged last fall with sexual abuse of a minor, a second-degree felony, in 2nd District Juvenile Court in Ogden. They were both eventually convicted.

The problem for defense attorney Randy Richards, who is appealing the girl's conviction, is that state law doesn't fully address sexual relations between participants that young. He claims his client has been treated unfairly as a result.

By statute, no one under the age of 14 is considered capable of consenting to sex, he said, so even though the two had intercourse willingly, it amounts to statutory rape because of their age.

But the law becomes uneven after that, Richards argues, raising the question of just how illegal was the behavior of his client, as well as her victim and co-defendant.

For two 14-year-olds to engage in sex in Utah is only a class B misdemeanor, he said. It becomes a third-degree felony if one participant is four or more years older than the other.

For 16- and 17-year-olds, intercourse is illegal only if one participant is 10 years older than the other, he said.

And Utah still has laws on the books, which haven't been enforced in 50 years, Richards said, that make adultery and any kind of fornication illegal, but only a class B misdemeanor.

His client, however, stands convicted of a second-degree felony.

That, Richards argues, is a violation of the Fourteenth Amendment guarantee of equal protection under the law.

"I don't think the Legislature ever contemplated a 12-year-old and a 13-year-old having sex," Richards said. "This is Utah."

The boy, he said, has apparently not appealed his conviction.

Richards argued his motion before the Utah Court of Appeals Wednesday morning, seeking dismissal of Juvenile Court Judge Michael Andrus' conviction of his client or a reduction of the charge.

The case was reported to authorities by a doctor during the girl's pregnancy, Richards said.

Richards worries that any violation of her probation, which could extend another seven years, could result in her having her child taken away from her.

"For now she has a juvenile felony record," he said.

He expects a decision within a few months from the three members of the seven-member Court of Appeals who sat for Wednesday's oral arguments. An assistant Utah attorney general argued the state's case.

Efforts to reach prosecutors for comment were unsuccessful Wednesday afternoon.

Richards teaches a class in constitutional law at Ogden High School, and he brought about a dozen of his students along for Wednesday's appellate session.

"It's a crazy case. And a good example of the issues under the equal protection of the law guarantees. I can't believe there wasn't another way to handle this case," he said.

vtbub · 10-20-2005, 03:09 PM

Dear lord.

KevinNU7 · 10-20-2005, 03:09 PM

Jesus. Most states have had laws for situations like this laid out for like 10 years.

SackAttack · 10-20-2005, 03:10 PM

Quote:

"I don't think the Legislature ever contemplated a 12-year-old and a 13-year-old having sex," Richards said. "This is Utah."

I don't think those two statements necessarily square with one another.

I mean...it's Utah. What else is there to do, really?

MacroGuru · 10-20-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I don't think those two statements necessarily square with one another.

I mean...it's Utah. What else is there to do, really?

Tip Cows.....have multiple wives

one and the same in some areas areound here..

cuervo72 · 10-20-2005, 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

I don't think those two statements necessarily square with one another.

I mean...it's Utah. What else is there to do, really?

Pray. And sing. Maybe a little door to door work. Then home for more prayer.

MacroGuru · 10-20-2005, 03:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Pray. And sing. Maybe a little door to door work. Then home for more prayer.

Come to my neighborhood.....only house with the Neon sign above it that says spawn of evil lives here....Trust me...I do not fit in here....

Subby · 10-20-2005, 03:17 PM

Utah has some of the best skiing in the country...I would love to live there.

Subby · 10-20-2005, 03:17 PM

Plus the 12-year olds are sluts.

JediKooter · 10-20-2005, 03:17 PM

Hmmm, if Utah law states that anyone under 14 is incapable of consenting to having sex, then to me, by default, they would be incapable of knowing they are breaking the law. Freaking leave those kids alone, they have enough to worry about now.

sovereignstar · 10-20-2005, 03:19 PM

They should split Utah into to separate states. The southern part would be 'Cool Utah' and the northern part would be 'Uncool Utah'.

finketr · 10-20-2005, 03:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Plus the 12-year olds are sluts.

no, the 12yos are studs.
the 13yos are sluts.

Raiders Army · 10-20-2005, 03:25 PM

Gotta give that boy some props. He got an older girl...then again, I wonder what she looked like...no, scratch that.

MacroGuru · 10-20-2005, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

They should split Utah into to separate states. The southern part would be 'Cool Utah' and the northern part would be 'Uncool Utah'.

Depends on what you are into....All the best skiing and hiking are in Northern Utah, all the best rock climbing, Mountain Biking and Golfing are in Southern....although it does have a good blend down there.....

Where I live, I am about 45 minutes away from everything, Skiing, Hiking, Rock Climing, Golfing, Fishing, Camping, and Hunting....

sovereignstar · 10-20-2005, 03:28 PM

Yeah, I went hiking in Southern Utah a few years ago and I loved it. I ski, but only of the cross-country variety.

Edit: And the ride up the interstate (I-5 is it?) through the metropolis that is SLC-Provo-Ogden just about gave me a heart attack.

hukarez · 10-20-2005, 03:29 PM

I've been fucking, since I was 10!

Fonzie · 10-20-2005, 03:29 PM

The court has been asked to rule on teen sex - and the court has ruled in favor!

vtbub · 10-20-2005, 03:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hukarez

I've been fucking, since I was 10!

U live in California, home of the hot babysitter.

sterlingice · 10-20-2005, 03:32 PM

Watch Jazz games?

SI

MacroGuru · 10-20-2005, 03:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Yeah, I went hiking in Southern Utah a few years ago and I loved it. I ski, but only of the cross-country variety.

Edit: And the ride up the interstate (I-5 is it?) through the metropolis that is SLC-Provo-Ogden just about gave me a heart attack.

1-15, and that has gotten a bit wider....We added a HOV lane finally

Farrah Whitworth-Rahn · 10-20-2005, 03:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by indoorsoccersim

Tip Cows.....have multiple wives

one and the same in some areas areound here..

See I would never live in Utah. Only men can have multiple spouses. Why can't women have multiple husbands? It's only fair.

Young Drachma · 10-20-2005, 05:03 PM

Wow...what a story. Don't the courts have better things to do?

Tekneek · 10-20-2005, 05:13 PM

Apparently all the serious crimes have been stopped, so they've moved onto this.

Surtt · 10-20-2005, 06:31 PM

Last year there was an article in the paper about a 14 year old girl, think she was from Duluth, MN, who took nude pictures of herself and posted them on the internet.

They charged her with child abuse.

Blade6119 · 10-20-2005, 06:49 PM

The youngest parents in history were a 10 year old boy and a 9 year old girl in china circa 1910...she delivered at 9 years old....sorry, random fact

Buccaneer · 10-20-2005, 06:53 PM

Some of you needs to study a map of Utah better. The best way to split the state is vertically just slightly to the east of I-15. All the cool stuff would then be East Utah.

Rizon · 10-20-2005, 07:38 PM

I almost got killed by a moose in Utah in the 90s.

MacroGuru · 10-20-2005, 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Some of you needs to study a map of Utah better. The best way to split the state is vertically just slightly to the east of I-15. All the cool stuff would then be East Utah.

You are correct there....Not much to the west, except for the Bonneville Salt Flats.....

Buccaneer · 10-20-2005, 09:11 PM

...and a whole bunch of Mormons.

sovereignstar · 10-20-2005, 09:12 PM

So you'll just totally write off southwest Utah?

Buccaneer · 10-20-2005, 09:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

So you'll just totally write off southwest Utah?

Go look at a map, dude. I-15 goes nearly right to the SW corner, so east of it would still include Zion, Bryce, Angels Canyon, Cedar Breaks and where I learned to ski at Brian Head.

Lathum · 10-21-2005, 02:38 AM

any thoughts about maybe holding the parents responsible?

SackAttack · 10-21-2005, 02:45 AM

I think in this case if you do that, you remove the support structure for the girl who's now raising a baby of her own and either put the burden on another relative to help her do that, or else take her child away from her, which would cause far more mental traume for a girl who chose to keep her baby than letting her deal with the consequences of her own actions ever could.

Just my two cents.

Lathum · 10-21-2005, 02:52 AM

I don't mean the girls parents should be responsible for her child. I mean it more along the lines of criminal charges. Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable. In my opinion the parents of both kids should have been more responsible and should know what their kids are up to.

SackAttack · 10-21-2005, 02:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

I don't mean the girls parents should be responsible for her child. I mean it more along the lines of criminal charges. Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable. In my opinion the parents of both kids should have been more responsible and should know what their kids are up to.

No, that's what I mean. If you press criminal charges and send her parents to jail, you've just knocked the support structure out from underneath the girl and created a bigger mess than there already was.

Parents should be informed about their children's behavior. Absolutely. But I think in this particular case having the parents face criminal charges could end up doing the children more long-term harm than has already occurred.

Lathum · 10-21-2005, 03:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

No, that's what I mean. If you press criminal charges and send her parents to jail, you've just knocked the support structure out from underneath the girl and created a bigger mess than there already was.

Parents should be informed about their children's behavior. Absolutely. But I think in this particular case having the parents face criminal charges could end up doing the children more long-term harm than has already occurred.

I agree but it is a lose/lose situation. The girl could lose the baby based on the criminal convictions anyway. I think the issue of overall accountability needs to come into play.

Tekneek · 10-21-2005, 04:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lathum

Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable.

I don't know what happens most of the time, but I've seen some incidents similar to that in the news where the parents had no charges and the boy was "charged as an adult." That's another thing I have a problem with.

Butter · 10-21-2005, 07:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

I almost got killed by a moose in Utah in the 90s.

A moose once bit my sister....

Wolfpack · 10-21-2005, 09:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rizon

I almost got killed by a moose in Utah in the 90s.

"I can't figure out why I went to Utah for the morning."

sachmo71 · 10-21-2005, 09:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

A moose once bit my sister....

I love to bite mousse.

gi · 10-21-2005, 10:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

A moose once bit my sister....

I think you need to be sacked.

MalcPow · 10-21-2005, 10:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JediKooter

Hmmm, if Utah law states that anyone under 14 is incapable of consenting to having sex, then to me, by default, they would be incapable of knowing they are breaking the law. Freaking leave those kids alone, they have enough to worry about now.

This is pretty much it for me as well. Most of the time the law only holds someone accountable if they meet some reasonable "normal standard." Here the law seems to say they don't meet that standard, but they're being held to it anyway. Unless Utah has some wild precedents this should be thrown out the window.

ntndeacon · 10-21-2005, 11:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

A moose once bit my sister....

Mind You Moose bites can be quite Nasty

sterlingice · 10-21-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gi

I think you need to be sacked.

Those responsible for his sacking need to be sacked.

SI

Wolfpack · 10-21-2005, 12:41 PM

The rest of this thread will be completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute.

10-20-2005, 03:09 PM	#2
vtbub College Starter Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Burlington, VT USA	Dear lord. __________________

10-20-2005, 03:09 PM	#3
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	Jesus. Most states have had laws for situations like this laid out for like 10 years. __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

10-20-2005, 03:17 PM	#8
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Utah has some of the best skiing in the country...I would love to live there. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-20-2005, 03:17 PM	#9
Subby lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: sans pants	Plus the 12-year olds are sluts. __________________ Superman was flying around and saw Wonder Woman getting a tan in the nude on her balcony. Superman said I going to hit that real fast. So he flys down toward Wonder Woman to hit it and their is a loud scream. The Invincible Man scream what just hit me in the ass!!!!! I do shit, I take pictures, I write about it: chrisshue.com

10-20-2005, 03:17 PM	#10
JediKooter Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2004 Location: San Diego via Sausalito via San Jose via San Diego	Hmmm, if Utah law states that anyone under 14 is incapable of consenting to having sex, then to me, by default, they would be incapable of knowing they are breaking the law. Freaking leave those kids alone, they have enough to worry about now. __________________ I'm no longer a Chargers fan, they are dead to me Coming this summer to a movie theater near you: The Adventures of Jedikooter: Part 4

10-20-2005, 03:19 PM	#11
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	They should split Utah into to separate states. The southern part would be 'Cool Utah' and the northern part would be 'Uncool Utah'.

10-20-2005, 03:25 PM	#13
Raiders Army Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Black Hole	Gotta give that boy some props. He got an older girl...then again, I wonder what she looked like...no, scratch that.

10-20-2005, 03:28 PM	#15
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	Yeah, I went hiking in Southern Utah a few years ago and I loved it. I ski, but only of the cross-country variety. Edit: And the ride up the interstate (I-5 is it?) through the metropolis that is SLC-Provo-Ogden just about gave me a heart attack. Last edited by sovereignstar : 10-20-2005 at 03:30 PM.

10-20-2005, 03:29 PM	#16
hukarez College Starter Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: Chula Vista, CA	I've been fucking, since I was 10! __________________ ...what we have here is a man who looks like Tarzan, but fights like Jane! My VG collection \| Xbox 360 Gamertag: ManThol \| PS3 Network ID: hukarez Doce Pares International - San Diego Council Filipino Martial Arts Digest tweet tweet twitter

10-20-2005, 03:29 PM	#17
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	The court has been asked to rule on teen sex - and the court has ruled in favor!

10-20-2005, 03:32 PM	#19
sterlingice Hall Of Famer Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Back in Houston!	Watch Jazz games? SI __________________ Houston Hippopotami, III.3: 20th Anniversary Thread - All former HT players are encouraged to check it out! Janos: "Only America could produce an imbecile of your caliber!" Freakazoid: "That's because we make lots of things better than other people!"

10-20-2005, 05:03 PM	#22
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Wow...what a story. Don't the courts have better things to do? __________________ Current dynasty: Up The Scots: Play To Clinch Tennis Dynasty \| OOTP Mod: Managerial Strategy Files \| GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

10-20-2005, 05:13 PM	#23
Tekneek Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: USA	Apparently all the serious crimes have been stopped, so they've moved onto this.

10-20-2005, 06:31 PM	#24
Surtt College Benchwarmer Join Date: Nov 2003	Last year there was an article in the paper about a 14 year old girl, think she was from Duluth, MN, who took nude pictures of herself and posted them on the internet. They charged her with child abuse.

10-20-2005, 06:49 PM	#25
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	The youngest parents in history were a 10 year old boy and a 9 year old girl in china circa 1910...she delivered at 9 years old....sorry, random fact __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

10-20-2005, 06:53 PM	#26
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	Some of you needs to study a map of Utah better. The best way to split the state is vertically just slightly to the east of I-15. All the cool stuff would then be East Utah.

10-20-2005, 09:11 PM	#29
Buccaneer Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Colorado	...and a whole bunch of Mormons.

10-20-2005, 09:12 PM	#30
sovereignstar Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004	So you'll just totally write off southwest Utah?

10-21-2005, 02:38 AM	#32
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	any thoughts about maybe holding the parents responsible?

10-21-2005, 02:45 AM	#33
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	I think in this case if you do that, you remove the support structure for the girl who's now raising a baby of her own and either put the burden on another relative to help her do that, or else take her child away from her, which would cause far more mental traume for a girl who chose to keep her baby than letting her deal with the consequences of her own actions ever could. Just my two cents.

10-21-2005, 02:52 AM	#34
Lathum Favored Bitch #1 Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: homeless in NJ	I don't mean the girls parents should be responsible for her child. I mean it more along the lines of criminal charges. Lets say a 12 year old boys accidentaly kills a 13 year old girl, you can bet the boys parents would be held accountable. In my opinion the parents of both kids should have been more responsible and should know what their kids are up to.

10-21-2005, 12:41 PM	#45
Wolfpack Pro Rookie Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Raleigh, NC	The rest of this thread will be completed in an entirely different style at great expense and at the last minute. Last edited by Wolfpack : 10-21-2005 at 12:46 PM.

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