The NFL and the 40 Yard Dash

[Ajaxab]

A 4.2 forty always did seem a bit ridiculous to me...

hxxp://www.olympic-usa.org/11611_32384.htm

[Icy]

Interesting info, i wonder why are auto timming devices and pistol used as in real races.

[johnnyshaka]

You would think with all the money teams are investing on draft day that they would instistute real timing procedures at the combine.

[Tom E]

The 40 yard dash is like watching Phil Plantier take batting practice, awesome. But in the end you have to be able do play the game when it counts...

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

You would think with all the money teams are investing on draft day that they would instistute real timing procedures at the combine.

The agents won't let their clients be subject to such an objective test. They bet (rightly) that a team will still draft their top prospect even though the prospect did all of his workouts on his own terms.

For all of the talk that teams do about holding that against prospects, they never do.

[vex]

They should make electronic timing part of the physical or something, so they can't skip it.

[Breeze]

Great stuff.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by vexroid

They should make electronic timing part of the physical or something, so they can't skip it.

They cannot make anyone do anything.

[bhlloy]

They were having discussions about this on the SC scout board earlier this week. There is a kid coming out of HS this year whose coach swears he can run a 4.2, and there were still morons arguing that was completely possible.

It is absolutely unbelievable that somebody can drop a round on a 40 time, but teams don't insist on an unbiased timing. Just completely unreal. If all the teams came out of the next annual meeting and said they were not going to draft another player who didn't have a league certified 40 time what would the players do about it? Even better, make it a league requirement. If you are genuinely (examined by a doctor) injured, you can be excused. Otherwise, you want to be drafted, you do the NFL certified tests.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

They were having discussions about this on the SC scout board earlier this week. There is a kid coming out of HS this year whose coach swears he can run a 4.2, and there were still morons arguing that was completely possible.

It is absolutely unbelievable that somebody can drop a round on a 40 time, but teams don't insist on an unbiased timing. Just completely unreal. If all the teams came out of the next annual meeting and said they were not going to draft another player who didn't have a league certified 40 time what would the players do about it? Even better, make it a league requirement. If you are genuinely (examined by a doctor) injured, you can be excused. Otherwise, you want to be drafted, you do the NFL certified tests.

I'm not an anti-trust expert, but isn't this textbook collusion?

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

I'm not an anti-trust expert, but isn't this textbook collusion?

I'd think that depends on whether you treat the entity as a series of franchises or 32 separate businesses in a co-operative.

I mean, look at McDonald's - you have to pass a drug test no matter which McDonald's you apply at, and that's not collusion.

If it's a test required for employment by a franchise of the overarching business, I think they'd be okay.

[Huckleberry]

I don't see how a test to determine suitability for employment is collusion. I always considered collusion as having more to do with artificially depressing salaries.

Anyway, I don't see why people say a 4.2 40 as timed by these guys is impossible. That article states that Ben Johnson was electronically timed at 4.38 in his first 40 yards.

1.) He wasn't going full out in those first 40 yards. He was building to top speed. Sprinters in the 100m want to build to top speed and hold it for the last 50-60m.

2.) Let's take their examples and work backward.

John Prospect runs what would be a 4.75 40 yard dash if electronically timed track and field style. Let's subtract .24 seconds because it's hand timed. He's down to 4.51 seconds. Let's subtract another .2 seconds because he doesn't get penalized for reaction time because timing starts on his first move. He's down to 4.31 seconds on the stopwatches.

So when you hear that someone runs a 4.31 40 yard dash, why doubt it? The explanation is that they ran a hand-timed 40 yard dash according to the standard procedure. The clock started on their movement and stopped when the recorder estimated they crossed the finish.

[bhlloy]

Originally Posted by Huckleberry

So when you hear that someone runs a 4.31 40 yard dash, why doubt it? The explanation is that they ran a hand-timed 40 yard dash according to the standard procedure. The clock started on their movement and stopped when the recorder estimated they crossed the finish.

Because he didn't... just because it's timed and done badly doesn't mean he actually ran that fast. And people take it as absolute gospel.

I do see your point, that everyone is kinda on a level playing field (everybody gets undertimed), but in a way they most certainly aren't aren't. You can account for the difference between a 4.45 and a 4.40 on the way a particular school runs their 40 (indoors, outdoors, track, weather conditions), but it's the difference between 5-10 draft places.

And hand timing is such an inexact science. Whose to say a 4.38 doesn't get you taken in the late rounds as a "project" because you have sub 4.40 speed, but you get lost in the numbers if the coaches hand is a bit slow and you get a 4.41?

With regards to collusion, I'm probably looking at this incredibly simplistically, but how can it be colluding to require players to take a standard entry test/combine when all players take the same league mandated drug tests? There are already age limits that seem to be way more in breach of anti-trust than a simple compulsory entry draft combine.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by bhlloy

With regards to collusion, I'm probably looking at this incredibly simplistically, but how can it be colluding to require players to take a standard entry test/combine when all players take the same league mandated drug tests? There are already age limits that seem to be way more in breach of anti-trust than a simple compulsory entry draft combine.

Like I said, I am no expert, and this may fall into the realm of the permissible. It just raises a red flag whenever one talks about all of the teams agreeing to manage their rosters in the same way. Maybe it's nothing.

[kenparker23]

1.) He wasn't going full out in those first 40 yards. He was building to top speed. Sprinters in the 100m want to build to top speed and hold it for the last 50-60m.

I beg to differ. If you saw that race, that was the fastest start I have ever seen. I did not think a human was capable of coming out of the blocks that fast. Johnson was 5 yards ahead of the field at the start. He was enhanced by drugs (Carl Lewis would state he was jaundiced at the start). His time was on the start, and I have heard from other sources as well that was the fastest 40 yd dash ever recorded.

I have always said true 40 yd dash times are exagerrated. I think a better test would be to put the player in pads and cleats and let him run the 40 on a football field. There are two kinds of speeds, track speed and football speed. Jerry Rice ran a 4.7 and in his prime I never saw him get caught from behind. He could "carry his pads".