Michael Vick Trade (Was it worth it?)

Raiders Army · 12-19-2005, 06:06 AM

2001 Draft, Chargers trade the first overall pick (Vick) for the fifth overall, the 67th, a 2nd round pick in 2002, and Tim Dwight.

stevew · 12-19-2005, 06:13 AM

Seemed like the falcons traded a ton for (basically) a kordell stewart clone.

Ben E Lou · 12-19-2005, 06:31 AM

Verdict's still out. I doubt we get to the playoffs twice and have a chance at back-to-back winning seasons for the first time ever if we don't make the trade, though.

Grammaticus · 12-19-2005, 06:33 AM

Tomlinson alone, makes that deal sour for the Falcons.

the_meanstrosity · 12-19-2005, 07:23 AM

What Grammaticus said.

VPI97 · 12-19-2005, 07:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

Tomlinson alone, makes that deal sour for the Falcons.

But the Falcons would not have drafted Tomlinson...they would have likely picked David Terrell with the #5 pick. Vick > Terrell

Raiders Army · 12-19-2005, 07:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Verdict's still out. I doubt we get to the playoffs twice and have a chance at back-to-back winning seasons for the first time ever if we don't make the trade, though.

I think the verdict is also still out, due to the time it takes QBs to develop vs. the time it takes RBs to develop; however, a very strong case can be made for Tomlinson's health vs. Vick's health.

Ben E Lou · 12-19-2005, 07:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Raiders Army

I think the verdict is also still out, due to the time it takes QBs to develop vs. the time it takes RBs to develop; however, a very strong case can be made for Tomlinson's health vs. Vick's health.

Yeah, the health issue is a concern, but as VPI pointed out, I doubt we draft LT in the 5-hole anyway, considering Americus Boy's love affair with Jamal, who was coming off of a nice comeback year and was expected to be stronger in '01. VPI's probably right about Terrell. The only good that could have come from that pick is that we probably end up with Peppers and/or Palmer as a result.

Draft Dodger · 12-19-2005, 07:49 AM

and remember, a part of that deal is the extra pick, freeing San Diego to take Brees in the 2nd round.

I think for both teams, it was a franchise booster. I have a hard time picturing the Chargers doing as well as they are with Vick at the helm and no LT. And Vick is the franchise (and a marketing gold mine) in Atlanta. The important thing, to me, is that I don't think either franchise would be a succesful as they are today without having made that trade.

VPI97 · 12-19-2005, 07:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I think for both teams, it was a franchise booster. I have a hard time picturing the Chargers doing as well as they are with Vick at the helm and no LT. And Vick is the franchise (and a marketing gold mine) in Atlanta. The important thing, to me, is that I don't think either franchise would be a succesful as they are today without having made that trade.

Yup.

Maple Leafs · 12-19-2005, 08:09 AM

I would just like to take a moment to recognize Raider's Army for being perhaps the first person in the history of the internet to start this discussion without mistakingly including Drew Brees in the Chargers side of the trade.

cthomer5000 · 12-19-2005, 08:13 AM

My opinion varies daily, but ultimately it was a win/win trade.

Anthony · 12-19-2005, 08:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Verdict's still out. I doubt we get to the playoffs twice and have a chance at back-to-back winning seasons for the first time ever if we don't make the trade, though.

JEEZUS CHRISTMAS CAN YOU STOP BEING A VICK APOLOGIST!

this is bordering on lunacy. just stop. STOP.

MikeVick7 · 12-19-2005, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

JEEZUS CHRISTMAS CAN YOU STOP BEING A VICK APOLOGIST!

this is bordering on lunacy. just stop. STOP.

And would you stop wanting him to be a clone of a pocket QB.

Do the Falcs win with him in? - Yes.

Do they win with him out? - No.

Draft Dodger · 12-19-2005, 08:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

JEEZUS CHRISTMAS CAN YOU STOP BEING A VICK APOLOGIST!

this is bordering on lunacy. just stop. STOP.

what kind of stupidity is this?

sachmo71 · 12-19-2005, 08:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

what kind of stupidity is this?

We hold these truths to be self-evident.

Ben E Lou · 12-19-2005, 08:30 AM

A strange little man, he is.

kcchief19 · 12-19-2005, 08:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

JEEZUS CHRISTMAS CAN YOU STOP BEING A VICK APOLOGIST!

this is bordering on lunacy. just stop. STOP.

I would like to apologize on behalf of Michael Vick for having one of the three highest winning percentages among NLF quarterbacks since 2001, going to two pro-bowls in his first four seasons, making the playoffs twice in his first four seasons and taking a ragtag football team to the NFC Championship game.

Bee · 12-19-2005, 08:36 AM

When comparing the trade, I just look at who got the best player(s). Trying to figure out "what ifs" is all conjecture. Personally, I think the Chargers ended up much better off than the Falcons did.

Also, with Vick...I think comparing his development with a typical QB is wrong. Running QBs tend to have a much shorter career than the typical QB (or they change their ways). A running QB needs to develop and do his thing earlier than your typical QB if he's going to have a major impact IMO. Vick still has a chance to do something, but I feel his window is closing quick for him to live up to the hype when he came out.

st.cronin · 12-19-2005, 08:37 AM

Chargers have 'won' the trade, barely. Vick certainly could be one of those guys like Elway or Young who blossoms late in his career, but there's no guarantee of that.

sachmo71 · 12-19-2005, 08:38 AM

Vick doesn't like the cold.

Anthony · 12-19-2005, 08:42 AM

Atlanta is no different than the Panthers. they're the exact same team: defensive-minded head coach, good defense, strong running games. the only difference is the Panthers were thisclose to wining a Super Bowl and the Falcons haven't been there yet. at this point in time i can't honestly say i'd take Vick over Delhomme - Delhomme hasn't been as injured, is a proven late game QB, and nearly single handedly won a championship. highlight clips mean nothing if you can't win.

Vick is a good running back. if the NFL allows the option then my money is on Atlanta. until then, Vick ain't good.

Anthony · 12-19-2005, 08:44 AM

Chargers got LT and Brees out of the deal, Falcons got a QB who has yet to play a 16 game season and who abandons the play to tuck the ball in so he can make another top 10 play on ESPN.

kcchief19 · 12-19-2005, 08:45 AM

I think it was a good move for both teams. I don't think either team would have been as successful in the other's shoes. Thomlinson and Schottenheimer are a great fit, and Vick's a great fit for what Atlanta does. It's amazing what Vick has accomplished with no wide receives and retread running backs, and I think Drew Brees owes Thomlinson a commission on his next contract.

The judgement could certainly change over the years. Until one or both of the players can win a title or be consistent in the playoffs, than there really isn't anything to brag about.

cthomer5000 · 12-19-2005, 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

Vick is a good running back. if the NFL allows the option then my money is on Atlanta. until then, Vick ain't good.

The NFL does "allow" the option. It's just that no one runs it.

kcchief19 · 12-19-2005, 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I would just like to take a moment to recognize Raider's Army for being perhaps the first person in the history of the internet to start this discussion without mistakingly including Drew Brees in the Chargers side of the trade.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

Chargers got LT and Brees out of the deal, Falcons got a QB who has yet to play a 16 game season and who abandons the play to tuck the ball in so he can make another top 10 play on ESPN.

There you go, Leafs.

rkmsuf · 12-19-2005, 08:48 AM

I don't sense that Vick is much of a leader out there. He just kind of does his thing. Just a guess from way on the outside looking in though.

rkmsuf · 12-19-2005, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

The NFL does "allow" the option. It's just that no one runs it.

The option doesn't work in the NFL. Linebackers are way too fast.

A-Husker-4-Life · 12-19-2005, 08:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sachmo71

Vick doesn't like the cold.

Ask Green Bay how much he likes the cold

1st home playoff loss ever...

Grammaticus · 12-19-2005, 08:58 AM

Vick’s value to a team is equal to that of a running back. He is a good runner and a poor passer. The fear of his running is what makes passing options appear when they would not otherwise. Once the fear of him running is diminished, he will be an even poorer passer.

Most running backs production severely drops off after the age of 30 and many do not even make it that long. I know there are some notable exceptions, but the vast majority of runners are no longer worth the value after 30 (about a 7 or 8 year career). A decent quarterbacks shelf life is more like 15 years, with about 3 being lower production developmental years.

Based on this logic, Vick’s shelf life is that of a running back and not a quarterback. Unless he reinvents himself as a passer, he may have 5 years left. Although his injury record shows that he is not even a particularly durable runner.

Sure, the verdict is still out on Vick, but why engage in such a risky investment, when there are so many better options available. The Falcons are draining their resources into Vick, which is holding the team back. Yeah, they had some moderate success, but they had better success with Dan Reeves and Jamal Anderson.

It is a tough call to cut the cord on an investment that you have put so much into, but you have to make the call at some point. It’s even tougher when everyone is hyping the guy beyond the second coming. My guess is, you’ll still be awaiting that coming in 5 years.

Fouts · 12-19-2005, 09:08 AM

I liked the trade then, and I love it now. I wasn't sold on Vick, but I liked LT coming in. That draft sure helped me forget about Leaf.

General Mike · 12-19-2005, 09:19 AM

I thought the trade made alot of sense for both teams before it even happened. And I think both teams got what they wanted out of it. I do think the Chargers set themselves up better long term with Tomlinson and Brees tho.

MalcPow · 12-19-2005, 09:50 AM

Both teams had pretty good drafts in 2001 (Atlanta's 2nd was Crumpler), and I think you have to say it was a win-win for both teams. Put where both of these teams are today in the context of the teams that picked 2nd and 3rd in that draft, Arizona and Cleveland, and it's tough to say that either was a big loser. It's kind of hard to make a call on this as well because if I remember correctly Vick wasn't going to sign with the Chargers anyway ala Eli, so they had to make a deal, it wasn't that they somehow saw LT as a more valuable player and made a move accordingly. Vick may not be everything you want in a QB but I'd be very surprised if he didn't win a ring or two before he's done. Put a good team around him and one of these years he'll string some of that magic together for a couple games in the playoffs.

stevew · 12-19-2005, 11:48 AM

I can't watch a falcons game without thinking the team would be better off with Vick lined up as FL, and Schaub as the starting QB.

GreenMonster · 12-19-2005, 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I can't watch a falcons game without thinking the team would be better off with Vick lined up as FL, and Schaub as the starting QB.

The Falcons already can't get the ball to their WR's or protect their mobile QB. Enter Schaub unmobile QB, who can't even complete 50% of his passes either. Bad idea..

VPI97 · 12-19-2005, 11:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

I can't watch a falcons game without thinking the team would be better off with Vick lined up as FL, and Schaub as the starting QB.

4-12 isn't better than having a chance at the postseason.

rkmsuf · 12-19-2005, 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

The Falcons already can't get the ball to their WR's or protect their mobile QB. Enter Schaub unmobile QB, who can't even complete 50% of his passes either. Bad idea..

Problem with that logic is that Vick is not good at getting the ball to the WRs on the run.

GreenMonster · 12-19-2005, 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Problem with that logic is that Vick is not good at getting the ball to the WRs on the run.

Vick seems to get the ball fine to Crumpler on the run because Crumpler actually gets seperation. Jenkins and White are young, but can't get open. Teams like Carolina and the Bears play man on the outside, put a safety deep and 8 in the box with someone to watch Crumpler and the Falcons can move the ball without big runs. Its tough to throw the ball without a reciever who can get open which is why the Falcons try every year to find a guy that can. (Price(FA), Jenkins(1st), White(1st))

VPI97 · 12-19-2005, 12:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GreenMonster

Vick seems to get the ball fine to Crumpler on the run because Crumpler actually gets seperation. Jenkins and White are young, but can't get open. Teams like Carolina and the Bears play man on the outside, put a safety deep and 8 in the box with someone to watch Crumpler and the Falcons can move the ball without big runs. Its tough to throw the ball without a reciever who can get open which is why the Falcons try every year to find a guy that can. (Price(FA), Jenkins(1st), White(1st))

Dude, but Michael Vick sucks. Didn't you get the memo?

SFL Cat · 12-19-2005, 12:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

and remember, a part of that deal is the extra pick, freeing San Diego to take Brees in the 2nd round.

I think for both teams, it was a franchise booster. I have a hard time picturing the Chargers doing as well as they are with Vick at the helm and no LT. And Vick is the franchise (and a marketing gold mine) in Atlanta. The important thing, to me, is that I don't think either franchise would be a succesful as they are today without having made that trade.

Good point, and I agree.

However, on just ability alone, I think Vick is way overhyped. He's a great athlete, but he is no where close to being an elite QB.

GreenMonster · 12-19-2005, 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

Dude, but Michael Vick sucks. Didn't you get the memo?

As a representative of the Dolphins we are willing to give up Frerotte and Rosensfels (on fire lately) for Vick.. Let us know..

Richard Weed · 07-21-2007, 10:16 PM

How about that trade?

st.cronin · 07-21-2007, 10:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

JEEZUS CHRISTMAS CAN YOU STOP BEING A VICK APOLOGIST!

this is bordering on lunacy. just stop. STOP.

This is a good post.

Noble_Platypus · 07-22-2007, 12:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MikeVick7

And would you stop wanting him to be a clone of a pocket QB.

Do the Falcs win with him in? - Yes.

Do they win with him out? - No.

I beg to differ with the first statement. They MAYBE win with him in. The Vick years: 7-9,8-8,11-5,5-11,9-6-1

I mean c'mon, are you people so blind as to look at the hard numbers? A career 53.8 comp %, a 75 QB rating. Is this "winning"?

Vinatieri for Prez · 07-22-2007, 01:01 AM

Those likely may be his final career numbers. Unless you can add future AFL numbers.

larrymcg421 · 07-22-2007, 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

I beg to differ with the first statement. They MAYBE win with him in. The Vick years: 7-9,8-8,11-5,5-11,9-6-1

I mean c'mon, are you people so blind as to look at the hard numbers? A career 53.8 comp %, a 75 QB rating. Is this "winning"?

If you're gonna base your argument on stats, you lose some credit when you intentionally leave out certain stats that make him look better.

Not that I'm a Vick fan (anymore), or that it changes the answer to the above question.

sterlingice · 07-22-2007, 02:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

I would just like to take a moment to recognize Raider's Army for being perhaps the first person in the history of the internet to start this discussion without mistakingly including Drew Brees in the Chargers side of the trade.

To be fair, they use the 2nd round pick to get a QB rather than using the 1st rounder so not being able to take Vick forced their hand. So, from the Chargers perspective, the trade was basically what everyone says. It's just not from that perspective if you say Chargers v Falcons.

Chargers got Tomlinson, Brees, Tay Cody, Reche Caldwell, and Tim Dwight
Or Chargets get Vick, early 2nd round pick

SI

dj_morton · 07-22-2007, 05:59 AM

Vick is the most overrated player in the NFL

Dutch · 07-22-2007, 06:48 AM

I bet Vick would've been a better QB if he didn't wear out his arm slamming injured dogs against the pavement.

Sick fuck.

Chief Rum · 07-22-2007, 01:44 PM

I don't see how anyone but Falcons fans, VTech fans and Vick aplogists could call this anything like a close to good trade for Atlanta. It might go down as one of the worst trades ever made.

And don't use the reasoning, "Well, the Falcons wouldn't have drafted LT and Brees, blah, blah..." The Falcons should get all the blame for being a poorly run franchise to that point of time in their history (fluke '98 year excepted).

View Poll Results: Michael Vick Trade (Was it worth it?)
Falcons got Vick	8	8.25%
Chargers got Tomlinson, Tay Cody, Reche Caldwell, and Tim Dwight	79	81.44%
They should've traded the trouts in their rectums.	10	10.31%
Voters: 97. You may not vote on this poll

12-19-2005, 06:31 AM	#3
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Verdict's still out. I doubt we get to the playoffs twice and have a chance at back-to-back winning seasons for the first time ever if we don't make the trade, though. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

12-19-2005, 07:49 AM	#9
Draft Dodger Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Keene, NH	and remember, a part of that deal is the extra pick, freeing San Diego to take Brees in the 2nd round. I think for both teams, it was a franchise booster. I have a hard time picturing the Chargers doing as well as they are with Vick at the helm and no LT. And Vick is the franchise (and a marketing gold mine) in Atlanta. The important thing, to me, is that I don't think either franchise would be a succesful as they are today without having made that trade. __________________ Mile High Hockey

12-19-2005, 08:09 AM	#11
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	I would just like to take a moment to recognize Raider's Army for being perhaps the first person in the history of the internet to start this discussion without mistakingly including Drew Brees in the Chargers side of the trade. __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

12-19-2005, 08:30 AM	#17
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	A strange little man, he is. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

12-19-2005, 06:13 AM	#2
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Seemed like the falcons traded a ton for (basically) a kordell stewart clone.

12-19-2005, 06:33 AM	#4
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	Tomlinson alone, makes that deal sour for the Falcons.

12-19-2005, 07:23 AM	#5
the_meanstrosity College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2002	What Grammaticus said.

12-19-2005, 08:36 AM	#19
Bee Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Fairfax, VA	When comparing the trade, I just look at who got the best player(s). Trying to figure out "what ifs" is all conjecture. Personally, I think the Chargers ended up much better off than the Falcons did. Also, with Vick...I think comparing his development with a typical QB is wrong. Running QBs tend to have a much shorter career than the typical QB (or they change their ways). A running QB needs to develop and do his thing earlier than your typical QB if he's going to have a major impact IMO. Vick still has a chance to do something, but I feel his window is closing quick for him to live up to the hype when he came out.

12-19-2005, 08:37 AM	#20
st.cronin General Manager Join Date: Oct 2004 Location: New Mexico	Chargers have 'won' the trade, barely. Vick certainly could be one of those guys like Elway or Young who blossoms late in his career, but there's no guarantee of that. __________________ co-commish: bb-bbcf.net knives out

12-19-2005, 08:38 AM	#21
sachmo71 The boy who cried Trout Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: TX	Vick doesn't like the cold.

12-19-2005, 08:42 AM	#22
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	Atlanta is no different than the Panthers. they're the exact same team: defensive-minded head coach, good defense, strong running games. the only difference is the Panthers were thisclose to wining a Super Bowl and the Falcons haven't been there yet. at this point in time i can't honestly say i'd take Vick over Delhomme - Delhomme hasn't been as injured, is a proven late game QB, and nearly single handedly won a championship. highlight clips mean nothing if you can't win. Vick is a good running back. if the NFL allows the option then my money is on Atlanta. until then, Vick ain't good.

12-19-2005, 08:44 AM	#23
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	Chargers got LT and Brees out of the deal, Falcons got a QB who has yet to play a 16 game season and who abandons the play to tuck the ball in so he can make another top 10 play on ESPN. Last edited by Anthony : 12-19-2005 at 08:44 AM.

12-19-2005, 08:45 AM	#24
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	I think it was a good move for both teams. I don't think either team would have been as successful in the other's shoes. Thomlinson and Schottenheimer are a great fit, and Vick's a great fit for what Atlanta does. It's amazing what Vick has accomplished with no wide receives and retread running backs, and I think Drew Brees owes Thomlinson a commission on his next contract. The judgement could certainly change over the years. Until one or both of the players can win a title or be consistent in the playoffs, than there really isn't anything to brag about.

12-19-2005, 08:48 AM	#27
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I don't sense that Vick is much of a leader out there. He just kind of does his thing. Just a guess from way on the outside looking in though. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

12-19-2005, 08:58 AM	#30
Grammaticus Pro Rookie Join Date: Nov 2005 Location: Tennessee	Vick’s value to a team is equal to that of a running back. He is a good runner and a poor passer. The fear of his running is what makes passing options appear when they would not otherwise. Once the fear of him running is diminished, he will be an even poorer passer. Most running backs production severely drops off after the age of 30 and many do not even make it that long. I know there are some notable exceptions, but the vast majority of runners are no longer worth the value after 30 (about a 7 or 8 year career). A decent quarterbacks shelf life is more like 15 years, with about 3 being lower production developmental years. Based on this logic, Vick’s shelf life is that of a running back and not a quarterback. Unless he reinvents himself as a passer, he may have 5 years left. Although his injury record shows that he is not even a particularly durable runner. Sure, the verdict is still out on Vick, but why engage in such a risky investment, when there are so many better options available. The Falcons are draining their resources into Vick, which is holding the team back. Yeah, they had some moderate success, but they had better success with Dan Reeves and Jamal Anderson. It is a tough call to cut the cord on an investment that you have put so much into, but you have to make the call at some point. It’s even tougher when everyone is hyping the guy beyond the second coming. My guess is, you’ll still be awaiting that coming in 5 years.

12-19-2005, 09:08 AM	#31
Fouts College Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: California	I liked the trade then, and I love it now. I wasn't sold on Vick, but I liked LT coming in. That draft sure helped me forget about Leaf.

12-19-2005, 09:19 AM	#32
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	I thought the trade made alot of sense for both teams before it even happened. And I think both teams got what they wanted out of it. I do think the Chargers set themselves up better long term with Tomlinson and Brees tho. __________________ Boise Stampede Continental Football League Jacksonville Jaguars GM North American Football League Nebraska Coach FOFC-BBCF Rutgers & Washington coach Bowl Bound-BBCF

12-19-2005, 09:50 AM	#33
MalcPow College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: San Diego	Both teams had pretty good drafts in 2001 (Atlanta's 2nd was Crumpler), and I think you have to say it was a win-win for both teams. Put where both of these teams are today in the context of the teams that picked 2nd and 3rd in that draft, Arizona and Cleveland, and it's tough to say that either was a big loser. It's kind of hard to make a call on this as well because if I remember correctly Vick wasn't going to sign with the Chargers anyway ala Eli, so they had to make a deal, it wasn't that they somehow saw LT as a more valuable player and made a move accordingly. Vick may not be everything you want in a QB but I'd be very surprised if he didn't win a ring or two before he's done. Put a good team around him and one of these years he'll string some of that magic together for a couple games in the playoffs.

12-19-2005, 11:48 AM	#34
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	I can't watch a falcons game without thinking the team would be better off with Vick lined up as FL, and Schaub as the starting QB.

07-21-2007, 10:16 PM	#42
Richard Weed H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: May 2007	How about that trade? __________________ I'm tired of taking names and kicking ass...I'm just gonna kick some ass.

07-22-2007, 01:01 AM	#45
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	Those likely may be his final career numbers. Unless you can add future AFL numbers.

07-22-2007, 05:59 AM	#48
dj_morton H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Jan 2007	Vick is the most overrated player in the NFL

07-22-2007, 06:48 AM	#49
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	I bet Vick would've been a better QB if he didn't wear out his arm slamming injured dogs against the pavement. Sick fuck.

07-22-2007, 01:44 PM	#50
Chief Rum Hall Of Famer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Where Hip Hop lives	I don't see how anyone but Falcons fans, VTech fans and Vick aplogists could call this anything like a close to good trade for Atlanta. It might go down as one of the worst trades ever made. And don't use the reasoning, "Well, the Falcons wouldn't have drafted LT and Brees, blah, blah..." The Falcons should get all the blame for being a poorly run franchise to that point of time in their history (fluke '98 year excepted).

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