Patriots message board

[tucker rocky]

hxxp://boards.boston.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?webtag=bc-patriots

Good and bad reads.

[Tekneek]

I *love* the one about the refs. I wonder if they make the same rants when the Patriots get the benefit of bad officials, which has happened in the playoffs as well. At least there were some people in there trying to put it in the proper perspective.

I still don't understand why Pats fans (at least the ones making all the noise) portray Peyton Manning as "the golden boy" and try to act as if Brady gets no love. The man gets all kinds of respect all over the league and on every NFL show. They are not even trying to look at the world objectively. They are intent on portraying their team as having to fight against the entire world and never getting any respect. It made sense when they got that first one, but it is nowhere close to reality today.

[tucker rocky]

The Pats were good at first, but when the team is pushed at you week in and out, it gets old.
Hearing the same tired comments about Brady and the rest of team is old hat.

Next.

[Cuckoo]

Did anyone read Gene Wojciechowski's article on ESPN? I don't know a lot about his allegiances, but he sounded really bitter. Is he pro-Pats, anti-Denver or did he just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

[Tekneek]

I don't know if he has a history of Patriot-love, but it comes off as bitter to me. He is trying to say New England lost rather than Denver won. Sour grapes.

[stevew]

You guys should have seen some of the Bengals boards last week. A lot of the cats went off the deep end.

[tucker rocky]

Originally Posted by stevew

You guys should have seen some of the Bengals boards last week. A lot of the cats went off the deep end.

I can imagine it went something like: "goodbye cruel world".

[tucker rocky]

In the thread "REFS", blaming the refs and nfl not wanting the Pats in the SB.

[tucker rocky]

Any opinions on where the ball is?
GL, or 1 yrd line.

[Arles]

That was a tough call, but it's one of those I don't think you can reverse what was called on the field (either way). Phil Simms geometry aside, there really wasn't much anyone could do after the play to get a definitive result. Still, you gotta love the hustle by Watson - that guy could play for my team anyday with that kind of determination.

The PI call was rough (I'm sure Raiders fans won't be all that upset), but Brady just never seemed to click last night. The Pats really can't run the ball, so if Brady can't get in a groove, they struggle to score points. Still, I think the special teams turnovers were devastating. The NE D was playing well, but it kills you to make a stop or have a kickoff to your guys only to see a turnover that forces you back on the field.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

Any opinions on where the ball is?
GL, or 1 yrd line.

I'd say 1 yard line, although that shot lacks the depth perception to tell exactly where the ball is relative to the players.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Did anyone read Gene Wojciechowski's article on ESPN? I don't know a lot about his allegiances, but he sounded really bitter. Is he pro-Pats, anti-Denver or did he just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

No, he's just a prick.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Did anyone read Gene Wojciechowski's article on ESPN? I don't know a lot about his allegiances, but he sounded really bitter. Is he pro-Pats, anti-Denver or did he just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

That was garbage. I couldn't believe what I was reading. It sounded like a bitter Patriots fan crying about how the Pats gave teh game away and how Denver should be ashamed of getting the win.

What a dirtbag.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by clintl

I'd say 1 yard line, although that shot lacks the depth perception to tell exactly where the ball is relative to the players.

When I was watching the play on Tivo, the shadow of the ball went right inside the pylon and then out of bounds. Of course that doesn't mean that is where the ball was, but it was that close.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

They are intent on portraying their team as having to fight against the entire world and never getting any respect.

I find this is true for fans of just about any team.

[Oilers9911]

I'm not anti-Pats or anti-Pats fans but being a Denver fan I am SO tired of hearing about the team that LOST. On all the telecasts so far it has been about New England playing like champions and the dynasty and on and on....what about the team that won the game?

[Tekneek]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I find this is true for fans of just about any team.

Really? The fans of any team that wins 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls are still going to continue carrying on like their team gets no respect? While their team, coach, and best players are hyped on all the NFL TV shows, and their QB (who they act like gets no respect) is in national TV commercials and on the cover of magazines? It just seems way too contrived now. Almost as if they need to light that fire to motivate themselves to support their team.

[GrantDawg]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Really? The fans of any team that wins 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls are still going to continue carrying on like their team gets no respect? While their team, coach, and best players are hyped on all the NFL TV shows, and their QB (who they act like gets no respect) is in national TV commercials and on the cover of magazines? It just seems way too contrived now. Almost as if they need to light that fire to motivate themselves to support their team.

Yup. Does get old.

[Desnudo]

Well you all will have a new team to be annoyed with next season. And what exactly did you expect to see on a Boston message board tucker? People talking about how great Denver was?

[MJ4H]

It would be nice to see some sportsmanship. Of course what would be nice and what is expected isn't the same thing.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Tekneek

Really? The fans of any team that wins 3 out of the last 4 Super Bowls are still going to continue carrying on like their team gets no respect? While their team, coach, and best players are hyped on all the NFL TV shows, and their QB (who they act like gets no respect) is in national TV commercials and on the cover of magazines? It just seems way too contrived now. Almost as if they need to light that fire to motivate themselves to support their team.

Yes. No matter how successful a team is, fans can't help to paint their team as Rocky and all other teams as Apollo Creed. A lot of fans interpret anything that isn't "OMFG! This team is the greatest team EVER" and a sign of no respect.

A few experts pick the opposing team "OMG, our team gets no repsect". The pre game shows talk about the opposing team for 5 more seconds than their team, "OMG, we get no respect."

[Glengoyne]

Originally Posted by Cuckoo

Did anyone read Gene Wojciechowski's article on ESPN? I don't know a lot about his allegiances, but he sounded really bitter. Is he pro-Pats, anti-Denver or did he just wake up on the wrong side of the bed?

He's just pretty much an Ass-Hat most of the time.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

It would be nice to see some sportsmanship. Of course what would be nice and what is expected isn't the same thing.

I wouldn't look on internet NFL team message boards for that.

[MJ4H]

Well, right. Just saying it would be nice. Sometimes I wish I lived on another planet.

[Draft Dodger]

I'm still annoyed by that terrible pass interference call, but Tekneek is right - the Pats have gotten many of those in their favor. The Broncos won because they played good football and capitalized on New England's mistakes, mistakes they don't normally make. It would have been a nice run, and, with the way today shaped out, I would have liked the Pats chances againt the Steelers much more so than against Indy. But you can't turnover the ball like that and expect to win and NO team knows that more than NE.

and yes, Ben Watson could play on my favorite team for as long as he likes. that was an incredible play...almost saved the game for them.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by MattJones4Heisman

Well, right. Just saying it would be nice. Sometimes I wish I lived on another planet.

I agree with the sentiment.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by tucker rocky

I can imagine it went something like: "goodbye cruel world".

More like guys getting ready to get dressed up in camo, and going out to hunt some von Ohlehoffen.

[AlexB]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I'm still annoyed by that terrible pass interference call, but Tekneek is right - the Pats have gotten many of those in their favor. The Broncos won because they played good football and capitalized on New England's mistakes, mistakes they don't normally make. It would have been a nice run, and, with the way today shaped out, I would have liked the Pats chances againt the Steelers much more so than against Indy. But you can't turnover the ball like that and expect to win and NO team knows that more than NE.

and yes, Ben Watson could play on my favorite team for as long as he likes. that was an incredible play...almost saved the game for them.

And remember the Broncos forced turnovers (apart from the Triy Brown muff) - the Pats didn;t give the ball away, Denver took it. The only way in which NE have an argument is the horrible PI call which definitely was a major part in the game.

Even as a Miami fan, I have a grudging respect for the Pats, but I think you have to say the Broncos deserved it because they took better advantage of their opportunities.

[ISiddiqui]

I don't remember ANY Cowboys fan during the early 90s saying their team got no respect. All the "no body thinks we can do it" crap was uber-annoying. How many other #4 seeds were getting so many people predicting they'd get into the Super Bowl before the playoffs?

[jeff061]

That goal line play was to close, that was handled fine in game.

As far as no respect, the Patriots didn't get any until after their second super bowl. However, even though they weren't favored, the fact that most "experts" picked the Patriots to win in Denver against a good Denver team kind of wipes away that whole lack of respect thing.

I think it may be hard to understand just how much the Pats were shit on the first few years of this run without having been a part of it. I think a lot of fans are having trouble letting it go.

[Desnudo]

Of course now everyone is writing "Pats Dynasty Over" articles, so get ready for round 2 next season.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Of course now everyone is writing "Pats Dynasty Over" articles, so get ready for round 2 next season.

Who is writing them?

I'm not challenging here, I'm honestly curious. I haven't seen a single thing in the national media saying the Pats are finished. If anything, I hear the media falling over themselves to say the Patriots gave Denver the win and that the better team lost the football game. (Sean Salisbury is a notable exception to that rule)

[jeff061]

Note the Patriots said the better team won , well at least McGinest. I haven't been able to bring myself to read the post game stuff. I don't mind the losing, it was going to happen sooner or later, but that was painful.

[Desnudo]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

[jeff061]

They had a great run, and I think this defeat will put an end to New England's status as a championship contende

Hehe. Nice. Carter I believe never really jumped on the bandwagon though.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news?slu...yhoo&type=lgns

Interesting. But Chris Carter has the brains of a fruit fly.

My favorite, favorite quote from any Patriots player last night:

’You can’t say we did it to ourselves,” All-Pro defensive end Richard Seymour said. ‘’When you say we beat ourselves you’re not giving the other team enough credit. We did make a lot of uncharacteristic mistakes, but in a way they forced them. As a competitive player and as a man you have to accept it. They did it to us. I’m disappointed. Very disappointed. But if you can’t accept a loss, what kind of person are you?”

Classy, admitted the failure the Patriots made as a team without trying to take away anything Denver did. Props to you Mr. Seymour.

[Desnudo]

I think you give Carter too much credit. My point was that stories like that are filtering out and will inevitably lead to more no respect chest thumping next season. I find the whole no respect card annoying, but I know it'll happen.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Who is writing them?

I'm not challenging here, I'm honestly curious. I haven't seen a single thing in the national media saying the Pats are finished.

Here's a couple more for you.

Tim Dahlberg, national sports columnist for AP
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/story/9166058/1

Dr. Z, from SI
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/200...eax/index.html

And virtually every story I've read makes some reference to "end of the dynasty". Nobody is saying that the Patriots are going to go 4-12 next year, just that the "dynasty" ends with the loss yesterday. The former is not required for the latter to be true.

[Galaril]

Originally Posted by Arles

That was a tough call, but it's one of those I don't think you can reverse what was called on the field (either way). Phil Simms geometry aside, there really wasn't much anyone could do after the play to get a definitive result. Still, you gotta love the hustle by Watson - that guy could play for my team anyday with that kind of determination.

The PI call was rough (I'm sure Raiders fans won't be all that upset), but Brady just never seemed to click last night. The Pats really can't run the ball, so if Brady can't get in a groove, they struggle to score points. Still, I think the special teams turnovers were devastating. The NE D was playing well, but it kills you to make a stop or have a kickoff to your guys only to see a turnover that forces you back on the field.

I am a Pats fan and got a couple of things to say. The better team won that game. The interception and subsequent fumble out of bounds was the correct call. If Brady hadn't thrown the int in the first place it wouldn't of happened. The Pats didn't lose the game but they were up 3-0 with 3:00 minutes left and the ball at the Broncos 28 yard line and driving when Faulk fumbled . That along with the Kickoff fumble were HUGE mistakes for the Pats.
I am not going to say the Broncos didn't out play the Pats ,especially n the second half..............5 turnovers producing 24 points is not going to win you many playoff games in the NFL. Both Plummer and Mike Anderson were neutralized by the Pats D for the most part and better play ALOT better against the Steelers or they will be watching the SB at home. The Pats offense weren't world beaters either but without the turnovers in their own territory it probably would have been adifferent game. I thought both teams in fact played recklessly and rather careless. I think this was a good thing for my fellow, particular local Pats fans who become really cocky and too disrespectaful of other teams and fans. That is a generalization but a pretty accurate one overall. Good luck to the four teams left see you next season.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I don't remember ANY Cowboys fan during the early 90s saying their team got no respect. All the "no body thinks we can do it" crap was uber-annoying. How many other #4 seeds were getting so many people predicting they'd get into the Super Bowl before the playoffs?

I'm sure if the Internet was in wide use in the early 90s, the obnoxious Cowboys fans who felt they weren't getting enough respect would have had more of a voice.

This perception of annoying and arrogant Pats fans after all, is only based on the the small amount that post on message boards, or maybe one annoying co-worker (who probably became a Pats fan within the last 3 years.)

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Yes. No matter how successful a team is, fans can't help to paint their team as Rocky and all other teams as Apollo Creed. A lot of fans interpret anything that isn't "OMFG! This team is the greatest team EVER" and a sign of no respect.

A few experts pick the opposing team "OMG, our team gets no repsect". The pre game shows talk about the opposing team for 5 more seconds than their team, "OMG, we get no respect."

I really can't imagine Cowboys fans in the early 90's fashioning the Cowboys as Rocky. That team was Apollo all the way.

(I don't remember the Niners SB teams being that way either, and I can't imagine the Steelers or Cowboys of the 70s being that way. Cross-sport, I never hear the Yankees fans spouting this angle either. Seems to be a bit of a Boston complex.)

[cuervo72]

Heh. Looks like Imran beat me to it by a few hours there.

[jamesUMD]

That Ben Watson play was ridiculous. I am really rooting for the Steelers next week. God I hate the Broncos. My buddy called and asked who #84 was and I said I'm pretty sure it's Ben Watson. He was like no it couldn't be a TE that caught up with him lol.

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I am a Pats fan and got a couple of things to say. The better team won that game. The interception and subsequent fumble out of bounds was the correct call. If Brady hadn't thrown the int in the first place it wouldn't of happened. The Pats didn't lose the game but they were up 3-0 with 3:00 minutes left and the ball at the Broncos 28 yard line and driving when Faulk fumbled . That along with the Kickoff fumble were HUGE mistakes for the Pats.
I am not going to say the Broncos didn't out play the Pats ,especially n the second half..............5 turnovers producing 24 points is not going to win you many playoff games in the NFL. Both Plummer and Mike Anderson were neutralized by the Pats D for the most part and better play ALOT better against the Steelers or they will be watching the SB at home. The Pats offense weren't world beaters either but without the turnovers in their own territory it probably would have been adifferent game. I thought both teams in fact played recklessly and rather careless. I think this was a good thing for my fellow, particular local Pats fans who become really cocky and too disrespectaful of other teams and fans. That is a generalization but a pretty accurate one overall. Good luck to the four teams left see you next season.

Faulk didn't fumble the ball on the Denver 28 yard line. He fumbled it on the NE 40.

It was the play right before the PI call. Agree with most fo the other things, but not all.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Faulk didn't fumble the ball on the Denver 28 yard line. He fumbled it on the NE 40.

It was the play right before the PI call. Agree with most fo the other things, but not all.

IMO, that was the game changing sequence, not the PI call. Pick off pass, immediately fumble it back on the next possession.

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

I really can't imagine Cowboys fans in the early 90's fashioning the Cowboys as Rocky. That team was Apollo all the way.

(I don't remember the Niners SB teams being that way either, and I can't imagine the Steelers or Cowboys of the 70s being that way. Cross-sport, I never hear the Yankees fans spouting this angle either. Seems to be a bit of a Boston complex.)

Unfortunatly, the interent really wasn't around from the early 90's and back, so I can't say how fans of a city, other than Philly, acted. And I can assure you the "no respect" angle gets tossed around in Philly all the time. I highly doubt it's just a Boston thing.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, I don't think the 'no respect' angle is just because of a few message board guys. Tom Brady basically said it a few weeks ago!

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

IMO, that was the game changing sequence, not the PI call. Pick off pass, immediately fumble it back on the next possession.

I still think it was the Bailey INT. Simms was busy talking about how the Patriots just fought longer than other teams, how they persevered longer. About twenty seconds after he says that, Brady throws the duck to Bailey. Much has been made of Watson (and what an incredible play that was) and Champ showboating/running out of gas. . . but Denver was ready to be had right then, right there. Jump on em, take the lead and let the defense which had dominated Denver for most of the night get to work.

I think that single play decided the football game.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I still think it was the Bailey INT. Simms was busy talking about how the Patriots just fought longer than other teams, how they persevered longer. About twenty seconds after he says that, Brady throws the duck to Bailey. Much has been made of Watson (and what an incredible play that was) and Champ showboating/running out of gas. . . but Denver was ready to be had right then, right there. Jump on em, take the lead and let the defense which had dominated Denver for most of the night get to work.

I think that single play decided the football game.

But I don't think they are in that position if they don't fumble that ball. That fumble creates two problems, one it kills morale on the defense who just worked to get a turnover, and two, it puts Denver in great field position. I think the Bailey INT was the nail in the coffin, but the tone of the game was changed by that turnover sequence.

[McSweeny]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

But I don't think they are in that position if they don't fumble that ball. That fumble creates two problems, one it kills morale on the defense who just worked to get a turnover, and two, it puts Denver in great field position. I think the Bailey INT was the nail in the coffin, but the tone of the game was changed by that turnover sequence.

exactly

after the field goal and the interception i felt we were in complete control of the game. the fumble totally killed that feeling.