what do you think of this joke

[dawgfan]

I got this joke from a cousin via e-mail the other day:

Two families moved from Afghanistan to America. When they arrived, the two fathers made a bet -- in a year's time whichever family had become more Americanized would win.

A year later they met. The first man said, "My son is playing baseball, I had McDonald's for breakfast and I'm on my way to pick up a case of Bud, how about you?"

The second man replied, "Fuck you, towel head."


It made me laugh quite a bit, but I also thought about the potential for controversy given the subject. In my opinion, the joke is about American attitudes rather than middle eastern ones, but I'm curious how others view it. Anyone find this joke offensive? And if so, in what way is it offensive?

[PackerFanatic]

It is a little offensive, but sadly true. That is how a lot of people view the american sterotype of middle-eastern, and sadly it is true to a lot of people (which is sad...) I did chuckle though...

[LoneStarGirl]

I thought it was pretty stupid, mainly because i've never heard of anybody from over there called towel head.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

I thought it was pretty stupid, mainly because i've never heard of anybody from over there called towel head.

Really? I've seen that term thrown around a lot, especially since 9/11 - that and "Camel Jockey" and a lot worse.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by PackerFanatic

It is a little offensive, but sadly true. That is how a lot of people view the american sterotype of middle-eastern, and sadly it is true to a lot of people (which is sad...) I did chuckle though...

What's interesting to me about the joke is that, at least for me, the immediate response was that it was offensive to people from the Middle East. To the extent that the punchline description "towel head" is offensive to them, that impression is true, but after a second I realized that the joke was really targeting stereotypical middle-american views on people from the Middle East, and the fact that there really are Americans out there that use terms like "towel head" and "camel jockey" (and much worse).

[Klinglerware]

Hmm... it does sound like a joke that backhandedly makes fun of Americans rather than Middle-easterners. I did get a chuckle out of it...

[WSUCougar]

I'm not personally offended by it, but I think it's offensive on two levels:

1. The derogatory towel head comment in itself.
2. The potential (and very likely, in some cases) response that this is the "correct" American sentiment. Yes, on a surface level it makes fun of Americans - but in a sad way. There are also too many Americans out there that upon hearing this would thump their chests and say, "Fuck yeah" or "Damn right." Much like the crowd who grin knowingly at n-word jokes.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

2. The potential (and very likely, in some cases) response that this is the "correct" American sentiment. Yes, on a surface level it makes fun of Americans - but in a sad way. There are also too many Americans out there that upon hearing this would thump their chests and say, "Fuck yeah" or "Damn right." Much like the crowd who grin knowingly at n-word jokes.

Very good point - I hadn't considered that aspect.

[Klinglerware]

Of course, Afghanistan is not in the Middle East--part of the whole construct of the stereotype of the American stereotypes...

[Desnudo]

My rule of thumb is, would you tell it in front of someone who represents the joke? In that case, I think the answer is no.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

There are also too many Americans out there that upon hearing this would thump their chests and say, "Fuck yeah" or "Damn right." Much like the crowd who grin knowingly at n-word jokes.

But maybe that's part of the joke--preying on the stereotype that Americans are too ignorant about the world to see that the joke is on them. The fact that many Americans probably wouldn't figure out the true target of the joke probably would confirm for a lot of people the stereotype of the ignorant ugly American.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I'm not personally offended by it, but I think it's offensive on two levels:

1. The derogatory towel head comment in itself.
2. The potential (and very likely, in some cases) response that this is the "correct" American sentiment. Yes, on a surface level it makes fun of Americans - but in a sad way. There are also too many Americans out there that upon hearing this would thump their chests and say, "Fuck yeah" or "Damn right." Much like the crowd who grin knowingly at n-word jokes.

/agree completely

[Coder]

This discussion reminds me of something a friend and I talked about after having watched Fletch for the quadrilliant time..

I mean, some of the lines in that movie just wouldn't even make it past the first draft in a script today.. but man are they funny..

For example:

Fletch to Alan Stanwyck, who said something to his cleaning lady in Spanish: "Talking Taco, eh?"

Or when Fletch arrives at the hospital, where every doctor's name starts with Rosen-something.. and he calls himself Doctor Rosenpenis.

Those lines, to me, are funny.. but I just get the feeling they'd never get on the screen in this day and age because people are too worried they might hurt someone's feelings..

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by Klinglerware

But maybe that's part of the joke--preying on the stereotype that Americans are too ignorant about the world to see that the joke is on them. The fact that many Americans probably wouldn't figure out the true target of the joke probably would confirm for a lot of people the stereotype of the ignorant ugly American.

The humor in the joke is that an Arab is calling another Arab a f*cking towelhead. Maybe it's a subtle jibe at stereotypes, but I doubt it.

[timmynausea]

Also noone would pay Chevy Chase to appear in a film anymore.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

The humor in the joke is that an Arab is calling another Arab a f*cking towelhead. Maybe it's a subtle jibe at stereotypes, but I doubt it.

The humor in the joke is that the one Afghani has either internalized stereotypical American views on Middle Easterners enough to use this slur on his fellow Afghani, or is clever enough to have picked up on stereotypical American views and used this jibe to win the bet. The whole core of the joke is the implied stereotypical view of how Americans think of Middle Easterners and the fact that such a view has taken hold in one of the Afghanis.

[Desnudo]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

The humor in the joke is that the one Afghani has either internalized stereotypical American views on Middle Easterners enough to use this slur on his fellow Afghani, or is clever enough to have picked up on stereotypical American views and used this jibe to win the bet. The whole core of the joke is the implied stereotypical view of how Americans think of Middle Easterners and the fact that such a view has taken hold in one of the Afghanis.

Okay, if that's the core of the joke then replace f*cking towel head with damned Arab and tell me how much you laugh.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Okay, if that's the core of the joke then replace f*cking towel head with damned Arab and tell me how much you laugh.

well, if you did that, it wouldn't be funny.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Okay, if that's the core of the joke then replace f*cking towel head with damned Arab and tell me how much you laugh.

That's the whole point though - if an American says "damned Arab" you might shake your head a little, but if they say "towel head" then it's clearly a ridiculous slur.

I get the point that the subtlety of the jab at American stereotypes may fly over the heads of the very Americans that are being targeted by the joke, but that doesn't make it any less funny to those that grasp that aspect of the joke.

On a base level, the joke is about shock factor, that an Afghani immigrant would be so "Americanized" after a year as to use an ugly slur against his own fellow immigrant.

On a more complex level, it's implying a jab at stereotypical "ugly American" behavior towards people of Middle Eastern/Arab descent.

[Desnudo]

Maybe the joke writer considered the complex level, but I doubt it.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

Maybe the joke writer considered the complex level, but I doubt it.

Does it matter? The complexity level is there whether the author of the joke intended it or not.

[st.cronin]

Aren't all jokes, on some level, offensive to somebody?