4 Bashings and a funeral.

[biological warrior]

So, did anyone watch the Bush basing at the late Mrs. King's funeral? I thought the bashings that the ''eulogists'' dumped on Pres. Bush was uncalled for. Come on this is a funeral isn't it.

Also why werent Clarence Thomas and Condoleea Rice invited? Obviously both personify MLK's speeches and goals dont they?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by biological warrior

Come on this is a funeral isn't it.

That's so naive that it's almost quaint.

(or it would be if I thought you didn't have your tongue in your cheek).

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by biological warrior

So, did anyone watch the Bush basing at the late Mrs. King's funeral? I thought the bashings that the ''eulogists'' dumped on Pres. Bush was uncalled for. Come on this is a funeral isn't it.

Also why werent Clarence Thomas and Condoleea Rice invited? Obviously both personify MLK's speeches and goals dont they?

I have not seen the funeral yet. How do you know who was invited and who was not?

[biological warrior]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

That's so naive that it's almost quaint.

(or it would be if I thought you didn't have your tongue in your cheek).

[st.cronin]

Is this why all the flags around here were at half mast today? I was puzzled about that.

[JW]

It got so political that Bill Clinton felt it necessary to remind everyone that they were there to bury a woman.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by biological warrior

Or ... maybe you were serious. (sorry about that, I must have misread you)

What took place was pretty much what anyone familiar with the players expected -- a political rally masquerading as a funeral.

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by biological warrior

Also why werent Clarence Thomas and Condoleea Rice invited? Obviously both personify MLK's speeches and goals dont they?

Of course not, they're Repubicans.

[Buzzbee]

Originally Posted by Farrah Whitworth-Rahn

Of course not, they're Repubicans.

Hmmm...I just thought of something Farrah. You may want to modify your disclaimer slightly:

**WARNING: Knowledgeable Conservative Chick posting. Might make some uncomfortable. Skip this post if that's you.**

There. That's better.

[Toddzilla]

Don't think for a second that MLK and his wife were not political people. Like Oliver Willis said, "They were progressive activists fighting against the closed minds of conservatism."

In that respect, I don't know how you could have expected the service to have gone any differently. Especially with the President there in person, no longer having the benefit of a hand-picked crowd. Lets just hope the Kings don't get "Swiftboated" like Kerry and Murtha.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Don't think for a second that MLK and his wife were not political people. Like Oliver Willis said, "They were progressive activists fighting against the closed minds of conservatism."

In that respect, I don't know how you could have expected the service to have gone any differently. Especially with the President there in person, no longer having the benefit of a hand-picked crowd. Lets just hope the Kings don't get "Swiftboated" like Kerry and Murtha.

Ding ding ding - we have a winner!

[Dutch]

Actually, I saw Condi get out of the same plane that Bush and Clinton got out of. Just to be fair.

[JPhillips]

The whole funeral was about politics. Why did Bush even attend? I don't doubt his respect for her, but let's be honest. He went to the funeral because politically he had to. He has no connections to Coretta or the family. I don't blame him, but nine-tenths of the people there were because of politics.

[Dutch]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

The whole funeral was about politics. Why did Bush even attend? I don't doubt his respect for her, but let's be honest. He went to the funeral because politically he had to. He has no connections to Coretta or the family. I don't blame him, but nine-tenths of the people there were because of politics.

Would you have been so negative about our President if he didn't go?

[JPhillips]

I wouldn't have. I can't speak for others.

I may get killed for this, but her goes. I don't understand why this is such a big deal nationally. I get that she was a great woman and I get that she's done a lot in her life, but I can't help but come to the conclusion that the media has made this such an event because its a way to score with Black viewers. Add to that the fact that its African-American History month and you get every news producer from Atlanta to New York to Peoria lining up space for coverage.

There have been two events here. One is a genuine sorrow for the passing of a strong spirit and committed Christian. The other is a political rally and commercial festival designed to out tribute the other guy.

God bless her and I hope she and MLK are reunited, but I have found most of the "tribute" to be classless T.V. more fitting for an episode of '24'.

[JPhillips]

dola

I should add that now we're going to be subjected to a couple of days worth of "tribute" from the Right decrying a funeral that most of them didn't care about until it became a way to score P.C. points.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I don't understand why this is such a big deal nationally. I get that she was a great woman and I get that she's done a lot in her life, but I can't help but come to the conclusion that the media has made this such an event because its a way to score with Black viewers. Add to that the fact that its African-American History month and you get every news producer from Atlanta to New York to Peoria lining up space for coverage.

I don't think that's it. I think that it's the fact that her husband, who did deserve this kind of attention, didn't get it at his funeral. This is atonement for that and a chance to recognize how much times have changed.

[JPhillips]

I can see that for some, but I don't believe its true of the majority. There are a few leaders out ther doing the right thing by giving Mrs. King and by extension MLK their due, but most of the media and some of the people at the funeral are followers just doing what the other guy is doing.

Now the thing will play into the persecution complex of some on the right. Can you believe how they were treated at a funeral? Sure its fine to make calls in S.C. about McCain's "black" baby, but bringing up politics at a funeral? Oh the humanity.

The whole thing has become a big media circus.

[Dutch]

So what would make JPhillips feel better about this?

[clintl]

They always flock to the funerals of icons of this stature.

[JPhillips]

Dutch: This is just our world now. We live in a hyper-competitive 24 hour media environment and this is what we get. Add to it the hyper-polarization of today's political climate and this is what you get.

Don't get me wrong, I won't lose any sleep. This is the game and all the players know what they're doing. I guess the one hope I have is that the corrupt start getting put in jail and that a truly viable moderate candidate can get elected and revitalize the Dems. Oh, and national redistricting reform would go a long way to easing the polarization.

But mostly I just don't watch these funerals and I don't give a damn when the other side gets indignant at their treatment.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by biological warrior

So, did anyone watch the Bush basing at the late Mrs. King's funeral? I thought the bashings that the ''eulogists'' dumped on Pres. Bush was uncalled for. Come on this is a funeral isn't it.

Apparently you missed the Wellstone Memorial.

[JPhillips]

Oh goody, now we can relive past mistreatments at the hands of liberals!!!

[Farrah Whitworth-Rahn]

Originally Posted by JPhillips

I may get killed for this, but her goes. I don't understand why this is such a big deal nationally. I get that she was a great woman and I get that she's done a lot in her life, but I can't help but come to the conclusion that the media has made this such an event because its a way to score with Black viewers. Add to that the fact that its African-American History month and you get every news producer from Atlanta to New York to Peoria lining up space for coverage.

Hope this doesn't make you feel too dirty...but I was thinking the same thing the other day.

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Yeah, I'm shocked an elder of America's civil rights and progressive activist community ceiticized Bush, the War, and the fact America still has so many poor and needy. It's not like the woman they buried led a civil rights march of 50,000 the day before her husband of buried. It's not like the woman spoke at an anti-war rally three weeks after her husband was murdured.

She was a woman who devoted her life to nonviolence.

Do any of ya' honestly believe that Mrs. King would've said anything different if she had the oppurtunity to speak to Bush at this moment in time? If Coretta, on the occasion of her husbands death, could launch (and continue) a decade's-long campaign for equality and justice in his name, we should only be so honored to do the same to mark her passing.

They'll be all over Coretta and Lowery, with the help of the media they'll trivialize her funeral, death and the honor being paid to her, by claiming her funeral was all a big stunt, a big act, one big political opportunity for the Democrats to abuse a poor old dead woman, they'll say.

But then again, maybe I'm wrong. Perhaps the old white men of the GOP will leave well enough alone. But I doubt. After all, the legacy both King's have left behind is too dangerous.

Oh - and as a side note. Standing ovation. Guess that two percent approval the Boy King has among African-Americans is resonating.

[Vegas Vic]

I got some unintentional humor when Jimmy Carter brought up the wiretapping issue?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it J. Edgar Hoover and Bobby Kennedy (under a Democratic administration) who initiated the MLK wiretapping?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Jesse_Ewiak

Do any of ya' honestly believe that Mrs. King would've said anything different if she had the oppurtunity to speak to Bush at this moment in time?

Nope.

Which has a great deal to do with why I consider all the hoopla over her death much ado about next to nothing.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Which has a great deal to do with why I consider all the hoopla over her death much ado about next to nothing.

I just have a couple of questions for you, JonInMiddleGA.

Was your spouse murdered for standing up for injustice to an entire race?

If so, did you understandably retreat to raising your children in relative safety, or did you continue the work of your fallen spouse, in spite of hate, racial epithets and death threats?

In spite of the enormous pressure to your life and to that of your family, did you continue to advocate a courageous policy of non-violence, and were you an inspiration to millions of people, not only in this country, but also around the world?

If so, I would say that any "hoopla" around your death was most certainly not “much ado about nothing”.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

... an inspiration to millions of people, not only in this country, but also around the world?

I believe the relevant question is "inspired to what"
The horseshit that spewed from some of yesterday's speakers?
Sorry VV, that's not a legacy to be proud of.

Here's a plain simple fact -- if her husband isn't shot, she's barely a footnote to history, if that much. But, as we know, he was ... but damned if I see her ever accomplishing anything more worthwhile than any of the other anonymous people who died last week. And if she was indeed an "inspiration" to that cluster of fools who ranted & raved yesterday, then she does deserve some recognition ... for the harm she did.

[Dutch]

[ISiddiqui]

I wonder if JIMG said the same thing when MLK, Jr. died . After all, he was pretty much a socialist.

[flere-imsaho]

I didn't want to do this, Dutch, but you leave me no choice:

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

I got some unintentional humor when Jimmy Carter brought up the wiretapping issue?

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't it J. Edgar Hoover and Bobby Kennedy (under a Democratic administration) who initiated the MLK wiretapping?

So all Democrats are responsible for the acts of all Democratic Administrations? Does this mean all Republicans are responsible for the acts of all Republican Administrations?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Here's a plain simple fact -- if her husband isn't shot, she's barely a footnote to history, if that much.

You do realize that Dr. Martin Luther King was known for much more than just having gotten shot, right? Seriously, do you know who he was? Or what he stood for? I ask because the galling ignorance of your posts suggest otherwise.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

So all Democrats are responsible for the acts of all Democratic Administrations? Does this mean all Republicans are responsible for the acts of all Republican Administrations?

Yes, I would say so.

As far as wiretapping, I stand behind President Bush. I think it's critical to do what we can legally to intercept the terrorists' transmissions. From everything that I've seen, I believe that the administration is complying with the law.

As for my original comment, I was just amused that Jimmy Carter brought up the subject of wiretapping, when it was the (Democratic) Kennedy admistration that initiated the wiretapping of Dr. King.

See, boys, I don't pull any punches, even though I'm a Democrat.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by clintl

I don't think that's it. I think that it's the fact that her husband, who did deserve this kind of attention, didn't get it at his funeral. This is atonement for that and a chance to recognize how much times have changed.

Yeah, this is exactly what it is.

[Young Drachma]

It was no doubt a political-tinged event. But you have to consider that, if nothing else, that sort of thing always happens in black churches. At funerals? Well, that might be a subject for debate depending on where you go.

But there is no big surprise that people were being political or that they felt the need to be political. I don't honestly believe, the people who were the friends of Coretta would have felt she would have wanted it any differently. In fact, her kids were sitting right down there and got up more than once to applaud when people were taking particular stances of the administration to task.

Did Bush expect it? I would argue, that yes, he figured that it would happen. I respect him for going, not that he wouldn't have - or that he wouldn't have been lambasted for not going - but at least he sat right there.

Clinton made a great point about there being "not a symbol, but a woman" in that casket and recalled when his own mother died and how he felt, so that he felt for the King children. I thought that was his way of trying to center things back to the focus of the day, in that sense.

But overall, the tribute was a powerful one. Too political? I don't know how to you get that.

As for Thomas and Rice..that's a whole different story.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I wonder if JIMG said the same thing when MLK, Jr. died .

Well, considering I was a few days shy of being 1 year old, I don't believe I had too much in the way of commentary on the subject

But it'd be safe to say that I doubt I would have shed any tears over it regardless of age.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

You do realize that Dr. Martin Luther King was known for much more than just having gotten shot, right?

Read more carefully. I didn't say that's what he was known for, I said that she would have been a mere footnote if he hadn't been killed; i.e. if she doesn't get to play the role of "the widow King", she's got a bit part, if that much, in the decades that follow.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Did Bush expect it? I would argue, that yes, he figured that it would happen. I respect him for going, not that he wouldn't have - or that he wouldn't have been lambasted for not going - but at least he sat right there.

Clinton made a great point about there being "not a symbol, but a woman" in that casket and recalled when his own mother died and how he felt, so that he felt for the King children. I thought that was his way of trying to center things back to the focus of the day, in that sense.

I have a lot of respect for President Bush for what he knew was going to be a rough day.

Actually, my favorite speaker during the whole service was George H. W. Bush. I thought he handled the situation better than anyone who spoke, adding some self-deprecating humor, while still paying tribute to Mrs. King.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

So all Democrats are responsible for the acts of all Democratic Administrations? Does this mean all Republicans are responsible for the acts of all Republican Administrations?

Hmmmm, Bobby Kennedy was the president's brother....so I'm assuming you think JFK was clueless about what was going on?

[larrymcg421]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Hmmmm, Bobby Kennedy was the president's brother....so I'm assuming you think JFK was clueless about what was going on?

How on earth did you come to that conclusion based on what he read? The reading comprehension on this board really baffles me sometimes.

Obviously what he's saying is that you can't hold Carter and his administration responsible for anything that JFK and his administration did, simply because they are from the same party.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Well, considering I was a few days shy of being 1 year old, I don't believe I had too much in the way of commentary on the subject

But it'd be safe to say that I doubt I would have shed any tears over it regardless of age.

Jesus Jon, you think him being a socialist outweighs him fighting for civl rights? I know you're fairly hardcore, but this seems to be a new threshold.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

Obviously what he's saying is that you can't hold Carter and his administration responsible for anything that JFK and his administration did, simply because they are from the same party.

Let me step in here, boys.

Carter isn't responsible for the actions of JFK's administration.

However, it looks like he was trying to take a shot at the current administration over the wiretapping issue. Due to the implied message of Carter's comment, I found it funny that it was a Democratic administration that initiated the wiretapping of Dr. King.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by larrymcg421

How on earth did you come to that conclusion based on what he read? The reading comprehension on this board really baffles me sometimes.

Obviously what he's saying is that you can't hold Carter and his administration responsible for anything that JFK and his administration did, simply because they are from the same party.

Okay, I'll confess I skimmed through the thread, didn't read it carefully enough and misinterpreted what was said. However, for the most inept president (Carter) in my time to criticize ANY other administration is kind of laughable.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Jesus Jon, you think him being a socialist outweighs him fighting for civl rights? I know you're fairly hardcore, but this seems to be a new threshold.

Outweighs it? Heh, he could have found the cure for both cancer & the common cold & it wouldn't have balanced the amount of harm he did and/or wanted to do to this country.

By the latter years of his life, he had become so far out in left field (pun intended) that he was even denounced by Time magazine & the Washington Post.

*See http://www.fair.org/index.php?page=2269 for more on this part of King's "legacy" that isn't often discussed these days

[Jesse_Ewiak]

Remember kids. Socalism is evil. Life before Social Security, Medicare, and the rest was woooooooooooonderful if you were poor. Now, all we have is shiftless, lazy poor people, right Jon?

As for King, yes, it's a total shocker someone that fought for nonviolence and equality is whole life was fighting for equal economic rights and against war, since as always, Vietnam was a Rich Man's War fought by the poor and middle class.

In addition, with funerals being politicla events - King eulogized at the funeral for the children murdered in the bombing of the church in Selma...

This afternoon we gather in the quiet of this sanctuary to pay our last tribute of respect to these beautiful children of God....

They are the martyred heroines of a holy crusade for freedom and human dignity. And so this afternoon in a real sense they have something to say to each of us in their death.

They have something to say to every minister of the gospel who has remained silent behind the safe security of stained-glass windows.

They have something to say to every politician [Audience:] (Yeah) who has fed his constituents with the stale bread of hatred and the spoiled meat of racism.

They have something to say to a federal government that has compromised with the undemocratic practices of southern Dixiecrats (Yeah) and the blatant hypocrisy of right-wing northern Republicans. (Speak)

They have something to say to every Negro (Yeah) who has passively accepted the evil system of segregation and who has stood on the sidelines in a mighty struggle for justice.

They say to each of us, black and white alike, that we must substitute courage for caution.

They say to us that we must be concerned not merely about who murdered them, but about the system, the way of life, the philosophy which produced the murderers. Their death says to us that we must work passionately and unrelentingly for the realization of the American dream

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Jesus Jon, you think him being a socialist outweighs him fighting for civl rights? I know you're fairly hardcore, but this seems to be a new threshold.

I think what you wanted to say was "a new LOW".

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

I think what you wanted to say was "a new LOW".

And does this shock you?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by dawgfan

And does this shock you?

Odd as it might seem, I'm kinda with you on this -- I'm really surprised that anybody would be surprised that I have a pretty low opinion of MLK.