POL - FBI uncovering corruption at record pace

[gstelmack]

So, I was in the doctor's office the other day and was glancing through Time Magazine. They had a bit where they made the claim that the FBI is prosecuting twice as many political corruption cases as it did 5+ years ago. Part of this was attributed to the change in police powers brought on by 9/11.

Now, I'm sure there'll be some out there who say this is because the Republicans are committing corruption at a record pace. But given that pols on both sides of the aisle are being caught (we have a prominent Democrat here in North Carolina under serious attacks for questionable ties to the gaming industry, especially since he used a political maneuver to get the lottery passed here), how about some props for a Republican Administration DOING something about corruption?

[Flasch186]

I am of the opinion that the corruption or atmosphere that has allowed it to fester comes fromt he top....I felt this way about the Abu Guraib torture, and was right, that while not explicitly laid out from the top the atmosphere was, as Rumsfeld was cited by the bi-partisan report saying so. So Im glad they are cleaning up corruption but the deceipt and lying is at unreal levels from this admin. and thus the underlings follow suit.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I am of the opinion that the corruption or atmosphere that has allowed it to fester comes fromt he top....I felt this way about the Abu Guraib torture, and was right, that while not explicitly laid out from the top the atmosphere was, as Rumsfeld was cited by the bi-partisan report saying so. So Im glad they are cleaning up corruption but the deceipt and lying is at unreal levels from this admin. and thus the underlings follow suit.

Interesting that you consider the Democratic Speaker of the House here in North Carolina a George Bush "underling". I'll refute this claim simply based on the fact that the corruption is coming from BOTH sides of the aisle.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Part of this was attributed to the change in police powers brought on by 9/11.

I am happy this is happening, but it doesn't seem intentional on the administration's part. More an unintended by-product...

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Interesting that you consider the Democratic Speaker of the House here in North Carolina a George Bush "underling". I'll refute this claim simply based on the fact that the corruption is coming from BOTH sides of the aisle.

I dont mean underlings like Republican or Democrat but those in politics on a rung under the top; the top being the White House. that is all, not a partisan directive at all, just that the corruption IMO at the top allows people "under" that pinnacle of being mor apt to cheat.

[oliegirl]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I am of the opinion that the corruption or atmosphere that has allowed it to fester comes fromt he top....I felt this way about the Abu Guraib torture, and was right, that while not explicitly laid out from the top the atmosphere was, as Rumsfeld was cited by the bi-partisan report saying so. So Im glad they are cleaning up corruption but the deceipt and lying is at unreal levels from this admin. and thus the underlings follow suit.

Do you really think that there is more lying/deceipt with the admin, or that they just suck at hiding it and as a result are getting caught more?

I honestly feel that there was this much lying/deceipt in every presidency from Reagan forward, possibly further back than that...but that it was probably around less "important" (read hot button) issues, it flew under the radar and rarely was exposed. I'm not justifying this occuring in any presidency, just pointing out that I don't think it's exclusive to this one.

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Chris

I am happy this is happening, but it doesn't seem intentional on the administration's part. More an unintended by-product...

But the typical slam against Bush would be that this is exactly the sort of thing he'd put a stop to. Someone would say something to the FBI and the political corruption stuff would get canned. Or worse, stuff against Republicans would get canned, while the Dem stuff would go forward.

But he's not doing that, and he's not crowing about it either. As much as corruption and evil at the government level and corporate level has been railed about on here, I thought it was nice to see some backing for my contention that the very government that is blamed for this is actually doing a good job combating it and bringing people to justice.

You can blame Bush for a poor response to Katrina at the state, local, and federal level, but you can't give him kudos when the federal government is bringing the evil corrupters to justice? I mean, if all he does is put incompetent cronies in charge of government agencies, how is the FBI managing to pull this off?

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

I dont mean underlings like Republican or Democrat but those in politics on a rung under the top; the top being the White House. that is all, not a partisan directive at all, just that the corruption IMO at the top allows people "under" that pinnacle of being mor apt to cheat.

I love the insinuation that corruption by Democrats is George Bush's fault

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

But the typical slam against Bush would be that this is exactly the sort of thing he'd put a stop to. Someone would say something to the FBI and the political corruption stuff would get canned. Or worse, stuff against Republicans would get canned, while the Dem stuff would go forward.

But he's not doing that, and he's not crowing about it either. As much as corruption and evil at the government level and corporate level has been railed about on here, I thought it was nice to see some backing for my contention that the very government that is blamed for this is actually doing a good job combating it and bringing people to justice.

You can blame Bush for a poor response to Katrina at the state, local, and federal level, but you can't give him kudos when the federal government is bringing the evil corrupters to justice? I mean, if all he does is put incompetent cronies in charge of government agencies, how is the FBI managing to pull this off?

According to TIME Magazine:

Much of that increase stems, strangely, from 9/11. As the FBI turned more of its attention and manpower to counterterrorism, the bureau handed off most of its drug-related inquiries to the Drug Enforcement Administration. Since only some of the former drug agents were moved to the counterterrorism division, the shift in focus freed up 200 additional agents to combat public corruption, says special agent Chris Swecker, the criminal-division chief. By 2003, senior FBI officials were fanning out to field offices across the U.S. to drive home the point that public corruption was now the criminal division's No. 1 priority.

I don't know how much credit you could give Bush for that, besides saying that he didn't shut it down. So, kudos to Bush for not outlawing public corruption investigations. Also, the FBI mostly deals with public corruption on the statewide level. Congress is in charge of oversight of the federal branch, and that is something that we haven't seen much of at all compared to the late nineties.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by oliegirl

Do you really think that there is more lying/deceipt with the admin, or that they just suck at hiding it and as a result are getting caught more?

I honestly feel that there was this much lying/deceipt in every presidency from Reagan forward, possibly further back than that...but that it was probably around less "important" (read hot button) issues, it flew under the radar and rarely was exposed. I'm not justifying this occuring in any presidency, just pointing out that I don't think it's exclusive to this one.

Well, but there's wherein lies the logical fallacy that a lot of people like to use to defend this current administration. Just because there are people caught in every admin doesn't mean it's happening at the same level in every administration. "It happens every admin" is not equal to "Every admin is corrupt". There is corruption in every admin but I'd contend that it varies greatly.

SI

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

I love the insinuation that corruption by Democrats is George Bush's fault

i held the same theory about the torture at abu and that bore fruit. That the atmosphere was created by the administration's rhetoric and attitude. I feel its exactly the same on the corruption issue. When the leader-head does X, than the people underneath are more apt to skew towards X than before the figure-head did it. That makes sense right? Take Bush's name out of it, and apply it to a company. It still works the same. If the CEO is commiting fraud and the underlings know about it, then they would be more likely to commit fraud to...not all but those that were open to it before are more apt to act.

[st.cronin]

Without getting into anything partisan, there is one corruption-type crime that is, at this time, hardly prosecuted at all (or even, to my knowledge, investigated), but honestly needs to be: Insider trading. Congressmen routinely report insane stock market gains on their tax returns, to a level that implies that insider trading is prevalent in the Capitol. I think it's utterly disgraceful.

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Without getting into anything partisan, there is one corruption-type crime that is, at this time, hardly prosecuted at all (or even, to my knowledge, investigated), but honestly needs to be: Insider trading. Congressmen routinely report insane stock market gains on their tax returns, to a level that implies that insider trading is prevalent in the Capitol. I think it's utterly disgraceful.

Definitely.

SI