Penalties

Saucy · 02-24-2006, 02:07 PM

My team, after 20 flags in five games, just suffered nine crippling penalties to help us to an agonising OT defeat. This got me thinking about penalties in the game.

Are they entirely random, or are they at least partly based on player attributes and so on? Eg. is my weak pass-protecting line more liable to receive holding penalties than others?

Do the coaches ratings in 'discipline' have an effect? (I had previously blithely assumed this was more to do with in-team discipline, good practising, etc)

I've seen an opponent ejected for throwing his helmet... just a flukey dice roll, or a function of that player's 'personality'?

Conjecture and/or hard facts very welcome.

MrBigglesworth · 02-24-2006, 09:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saucy

Do the coaches ratings in 'discipline' have an effect? (I had previously blithely assumed this was more to do with in-team discipline, good practising, etc)

This definitely has an effect.

Far as I know, nobody has any idea about the rest.

Fonzie · 02-25-2006, 07:36 PM

I always imagined that unit cohesion played a role in penalties, but I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

wishbone · 03-02-2006, 06:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saucy

Do the coaches ratings in 'discipline' have an effect? (I had previously blithely assumed this was more to do with in-team discipline, good practising, etc)

I've watched my team's penalties climb as my coach's discipline rating has gone down. definitely not a study but it has ben very firm in my mind that this was the most significant factor in the number of penalties.

Dutch · 03-02-2006, 10:33 PM

Just a quick glance at IHOF MP.

In week #14 of our current season, the team with the most penalties is the Frederick Red Menace with 94 penalties. The HC is rated excellent and their cohesion ratings are ranked 90, 100, 93, and 83 or 10th, 1st, 3rd, and 4th respectively in the league.

I'm not trying to prove anything based on one instance of one league, but that's pretty persuasive to me that Discipline and Cohesion might not be heavily weighted. It's probably just the luck of the draw.

stevew · 03-03-2006, 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dutch

Just a quick glance at IHOF MP.

In week #14 of our current season, the team with the most penalties is the Frederick Red Menace with 94 penalties. The HC is rated excellent and their cohesion ratings are ranked 90, 100, 93, and 83 or 10th, 1st, 3rd, and 4th respectively in the league.

I'm not trying to prove anything based on one instance of one league, but that's pretty persuasive to me that Discipline and Cohesion might not be heavily weighted. It's probably just the luck of the draw.

What about technique on their linemen. I wonder if the pass blocking/run blocking ratings have some sort of influence on the holding penalty. Maybe also the defenders proficiency in a coverage area might have some sort of effect on how much he gets called for interference.

primelord · 03-04-2006, 06:53 PM

One of the real problems in trying to determine these things is the mixture of randomness in the game and the various ratings that influence things.

All events that take place in the game are random in nature. The game doesn't determine before hand that there will be X number of penalties in the game. When a play comes up it weighs multiple factors. We don't know what those factors are, but lets say for simplicity sake they are purely the coach's discipline rating and the raw percentage of times a play results in a penalty.

So let's say Jim has studied several years of NFL games and has determined that on average 12% of all plays result in a penalty. So you would start with that number and then based on your coach's discipline rating that number would be modified up or down. So let's say your coach has an excellent discipline rating and that number gets modifided down to 8%. This of course does not mean that after 1 season you will have suffered a penalty on exactly 8% of your plays. If nothing else changed then maybe after 100 seasons you could safely bet that the number would be right around 8%, but int he short term that number could vary quite a bit.

Because of that it becomes very diifcult to determine exactly what does and does not affect things like this. You might go out and get a coach with an excellent discipline rating, but just happen to get the raw side of the dice roll and actually see your penalties go up despite the fact that you were in a better position not to suffer as many. Then when you consider it is likely the combination of several things, possibly even ratings that are not displayed to us in the game, and it becomes very hard to nail something like this down.

Saucy · 03-04-2006, 10:05 PM

<>

Um yes... exactly. That's why I asked, out of idle curiosity more than anything, whether anybody knew the factors involved, or just had any theories on it.

primelord · 03-05-2006, 12:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Saucy

<>

Um yes... exactly. That's why I asked, out of idle curiosity more than anything, whether anybody knew the factors involved, or just had any theories on it.

Heh my post was not so much in response to your question as it was to Dutch's IHOF observation.

02-25-2006, 07:36 PM	#3
Fonzie Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Illinois	I always imagined that unit cohesion played a role in penalties, but I have absolutely no evidence to back that up.

03-02-2006, 10:33 PM	#5
Dutch "Dutch" Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Tampa, FL	Just a quick glance at IHOF MP. In week #14 of our current season, the team with the most penalties is the Frederick Red Menace with 94 penalties. The HC is rated excellent and their cohesion ratings are ranked 90, 100, 93, and 83 or 10th, 1st, 3rd, and 4th respectively in the league. I'm not trying to prove anything based on one instance of one league, but that's pretty persuasive to me that Discipline and Cohesion might not be heavily weighted. It's probably just the luck of the draw.

03-04-2006, 06:53 PM	#7
primelord Pro Rookie Join Date: Oct 2000	One of the real problems in trying to determine these things is the mixture of randomness in the game and the various ratings that influence things. All events that take place in the game are random in nature. The game doesn't determine before hand that there will be X number of penalties in the game. When a play comes up it weighs multiple factors. We don't know what those factors are, but lets say for simplicity sake they are purely the coach's discipline rating and the raw percentage of times a play results in a penalty. So let's say Jim has studied several years of NFL games and has determined that on average 12% of all plays result in a penalty. So you would start with that number and then based on your coach's discipline rating that number would be modified up or down. So let's say your coach has an excellent discipline rating and that number gets modifided down to 8%. This of course does not mean that after 1 season you will have suffered a penalty on exactly 8% of your plays. If nothing else changed then maybe after 100 seasons you could safely bet that the number would be right around 8%, but int he short term that number could vary quite a bit. Because of that it becomes very diifcult to determine exactly what does and does not affect things like this. You might go out and get a coach with an excellent discipline rating, but just happen to get the raw side of the dice roll and actually see your penalties go up despite the fact that you were in a better position not to suffer as many. Then when you consider it is likely the combination of several things, possibly even ratings that are not displayed to us in the game, and it becomes very hard to nail something like this down.

03-04-2006, 10:05 PM	#8
Saucy n00b Join Date: Feb 2006 Location: Ontario	<> Um yes... exactly. That's why I asked, out of idle curiosity more than anything, whether anybody knew the factors involved, or just had any theories on it.

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