Civ IV vs. Galatic Civilizations II

Franklinnoble · 03-07-2006, 10:03 AM

Dunno... don't have GalCiv II.

Civ IV was kind of a disappointment, though.

Honolulu_Blue · 03-07-2006, 10:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Civ IV was kind of a disappointment, though.

First time I've heard that.

WSUCougar · 03-07-2006, 11:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

First time I've heard that.

Me too. What about it was "a disappointment?"

Franklinnoble · 03-07-2006, 11:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Me too. What about it was "a disappointment?"

They spent more time on pretty graphics and less time on gameplay.

Don't misunderstand - there were a lot of innovative changes that I did enjoy, the promotion system being one of them - but I was really disappointed when I bought the game and discovered that it was a lot more graphically intense. Out of the box, it didn't even run on my laptop (and my laptop is less than a year old). It works now, with the latest patch, but I always thought Civ was more about strategy than it was about pretty animation. I could have done without all the resource-intensive eye candy.

sachmo71 · 03-07-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SWUCougar

Me too. What about it was "a disappointment?"

Quiet! He's controversial.

Blade6119 · 03-07-2006, 02:22 PM

Since i dont like turnbased this was easy for me

Honolulu_Blue · 03-07-2006, 02:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

They spent more time on pretty graphics and less time on gameplay.

Don't misunderstand - there were a lot of innovative changes that I did enjoy, the promotion system being one of them - but I was really disappointed when I bought the game and discovered that it was a lot more graphically intense. Out of the box, it didn't even run on my laptop (and my laptop is less than a year old). It works now, with the latest patch, but I always thought Civ was more about strategy than it was about pretty animation. I could have done without all the resource-intensive eye candy.

As far as I'm concerned this game was the best of both worlds: great strategy/gameplay and pretty animation/graphics. I never got the sense from playing the game that they sacrificed the former for the latter in any way, shape, or form. Civ IV is the computer game equivalent of George Clooney and Tom Brady: excellent in both appearance and execution.

The initial release was a PC killer. The memory leak brought many a machine to its knees.

PSUColonel · 03-07-2006, 02:45 PM

The reason I'm posing this question is beacause I've read reviews at Gamespy and Gamespot that really talk up GC II's A.I., especially the diplomacy and interaction with other leaders. To me, the diplomacy in Civ IV is sort of weak. To often leaders won't support you even though you support them. (I know I know much lke the real world) But much of the time it just seems like the computer is never willing to deal with human players, or even look at why it might be adventageous for them to align themselves with a human player. It's always give me this or die type shit. Occasionally they'll look to trade. That's really about it though.

Honolulu_Blue · 03-07-2006, 03:05 PM

I apologize for the brief threadjack.

I'd be interested in this too. I agree that the diplomacy engine for Civ IV isn't all that great or complex. I had one game where Japan was my ally very early on. We were very strong, fought wars together, defended one another, open boarders, trade, the whole nine yards. It was all based on the fact we were both Christian nations. Then, all of a sudden, Japan adopts "free religion" and immediately cuts off all diplomatic ties and goes into their isolationist mode (I wiped them from the map a few hundred years later). It just didn't feel right to me.

Franklinnoble · 03-07-2006, 03:17 PM

Agreed - diplomacy was improved over Civ3, but still could have been better.

I like the notion of the religion feature, but I feel like it was too politically correct. I think adding actual traits from each religion to the a.i., and maybe realistic costs/benefits from each one would make it a lot more interesting.

Greyroofoo · 03-07-2006, 03:45 PM

I have them both and GalCiv 2 just gives me more of the "one more turn" itch.

The galaxy will suffer the wrath of my "Chuck Norris" class ships.............

Franklinnoble · 03-07-2006, 03:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Greyroofoo

I have them both and GalCiv 2 just gives me more of the "one more turn" itch.

The galaxy will suffer the wrath of my "Chuck Norris" class ships.............

What are GalCiv2's system requirements?

Schmidty · 03-07-2006, 04:00 PM

GC 2 is AWESOME, but Civ4 is still far superior, esepcially with mods and scenarios.

I seriously question the sanity of anyone that bought Civ4 and was underwhelmed. Maybe that's not the genre that person should be playing, because it doesn't get any better.

WSUCougar · 03-07-2006, 04:02 PM

What mods do you use for CivIV, Schmidty?

Greyroofoo · 03-07-2006, 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

What are GalCiv2's system requirements?

From the Box:
Min: Pentium III 800 Mhz, 256 ram, 32MB Direct X 9.0c compatible video card.

Recommended: Pentium 4 1.8 Ghz, 512 ram, 128MB Direct X 9.0c compatible video card.

Schmidty · 03-07-2006, 04:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

What mods do you use for CivIV, Schmidty?

Fall From Heaven (an AMAZING fantasy mod), Europa Europa, etc.

A lot of great mods can be found at Civfanatics - http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=171

Greyroofoo · 03-07-2006, 04:11 PM

One of the features I LOVE in GalCiv2 is designing your own ships. The design system is kind of like playing with legos. You have your basic hull then just add pieces.

Link to GalCiv2's forum thread showing off custom ships.
http://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=162&AID=104951

Glengoyne · 03-07-2006, 04:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blade6119

Since i dont like turnbased this was easy for me

WTF!

You don't like turnbased?

How the fuck did you become an admin with such an obvious lack of judgement?

Blade6119 · 03-07-2006, 05:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Glengoyne

WTF!

You don't like turnbased?

How the fuck did you become an admin with such an obvious lack of judgement?

I lied on my resume...i praised the glories of the Turn Based sytem, and now that im in the inner circle i shall ensure no TBS games are made...EVER AGAIN!!!

HAHAHAHAHA

Honolulu_Blue · 03-07-2006, 05:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Fall From Heaven (an AMAZING fantasy mod), Europa Europa, etc.

A lot of great mods can be found at Civfanatics - http://forums.civfanatics.com/forumdisplay.php?f=171

Woah. That Fall From Heaven mod looks f*cking SWEET! Wow. I never even explored the modding capabilities in Civ IV. It's like a whole new game.

Some quick, painfully basic questions. Does downloading/installing the mod effect your ability to play the regular game in any way? How do you start up a mod?

dixieflatline · 03-07-2006, 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Dunno... don't have GalCiv II.

Civ IV was kind of a disappointment, though.

Ditto I don't own GC II but I was pretty dissapointed with Civ 4. It has some nice improvements but again it didn't take me long to be able to beat AI pretty regularly at the higher levels. I admit that I haven't looked at any of the mods or messed with any of the .xml though.

Schmidty · 03-07-2006, 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu_Blue

Some quick, painfully basic questions. Does downloading/installing the mod effect your ability to play the regular game in any way? How do you start up a mod?

It doesn't affect anything, since when you want to play a mod like Fall From Heaven, you just go to "Advanced", then click on "Mods", and the game restarts itself. So everytime you play Civ4, you have the option of not loading the Mod, or loading it (or any other mod).

sabotai · 03-07-2006, 07:09 PM

Gamespot gave GalCiv II a 9.0

http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...ml?sid=6145309

Here's them talking about the AI:

"This leads to the issue of artificial intelligence, always a controversial subject in strategy games. The AI in Galactic Civilizations II differentiates it from other 4X games: It doesn't cheat, and it's very, very good at higher levels. It's also unique in that the AI doesn't treat the human player any differently than it does the other AI players. You can set the AI to a lower level to allow you to have fun while learning the game, but when you set it higher as you advance in your skills, the game doesn't respond by cheating. Instead, it employs more advanced (and devious) strategies, observing and adapting to your play. For example, at lower levels you could be trading and generally playing nice with a neighboring civilization that is rather weak militarily, while at the same time setting up military starbases and fleets of fighters in their vicinity, and the AI may continue to trust you. At higher AI levels it will recognize the signs of betrayal and take preventive or preemptive actions.

In fact, the AI will surprise you with the humanity of its style. You will be simultaneously surprised, pleased, and frustrated when you have almost defeated a civilization, are gloating over the resources that are about to be your spoils of war, and then see your victim surrender to another race that is more aligned to its ethical style just to keep you from taking it over. Or when you're at war with a race and are informed by a superior race that you're hurting their trade income and thus must be eliminated. The AI will watch you and adapt, and not always in a predictable way, even after having played many games. They'll seek out weaknesses and exploit them. At higher levels you'll be convinced that the AI is cheating, but it isn't: It is just diabolically clever at finding ways to optimize strategies. Perhaps the best compliment you can pay the AI in Galactic Civilizations II is that it will beat you in ways that you will respect and admire."

Warhammer · 03-07-2006, 09:34 PM

I can't vouch for CivIV's AI, but the AI for GalCivII has been very good so far. I enjoy the diplomacy. This last game, with 9 AIs all set to intelligent, I had various AIs telling me to watch out for the Yor, and to aid any civilizations at war with the Yor. (I had a pretty good diplomacy rating in this game, just FYI) Suddenly, the Yor declare war on me, and the civs that warned me, suddenly start giving me ships to fight the Yor! Not only that, one of the weaker civs that bordered the Yor, send me a message along the lines of "Your war is our war, we will declare war on your enemy."

Fighting a war on two fronts, eventually three, the Yor gradually succumb to the combined weight of our fleets. Then, they surrender, not to me, but to the Arcean Empire who had been giving them aid! I eventually did win this game (my first win), but much of it was due to my diplomatic acumen (I won a diplomatic victory by allying with all surviving AI players). As the game advanced, the Altaran and Torian Empires were allied to me. Seeing how they could not take my planets by force, they resorted to cultural warfare. I did not have enough to fight them both (they had a mutual alliance as well), I was forced to keep them at war with the Arceans, while I gave clandestine aid to the Arceans and finally get them to ally with me (I had a big negotiation edge with the Arceans so that helped.).

In any case, the AI in this game has far surpassed anything I have seen in any game of Civ.

ISiddiqui · 03-07-2006, 09:38 PM

Civ4... easily. Best Civ game ever. Easily better than Civ2, the previous best Civ. Space 4x games have never held me interested quite like Civ or Alpha Centauri. I don't like settling planets.

Buccaneer · 03-07-2006, 09:39 PM

Gal Civ is sci fi. 'Nuf said.

Quote:

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

Me too. What about it was "a disappointment?"

Consider the source.

Buccaneer · 03-07-2006, 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I can't vouch for CivIV's AI, but the AI for GalCivII has been very good so far. I enjoy the diplomacy. This last game, with 9 AIs all set to intelligent, I had various AIs telling me to watch out for the Yor, and to aid any civilizations at war with the Yor. (I had a pretty good diplomacy rating in this game, just FYI) Suddenly, the Yor declare war on me, and the civs that warned me, suddenly start giving me ships to fight the Yor! Not only that, one of the weaker civs that bordered the Yor, send me a message along the lines of "Your war is our war, we will declare war on your enemy."

Fighting a war on two fronts, eventually three, the Yor gradually succumb to the combined weight of our fleets. Then, they surrender, not to me, but to the Arcean Empire who had been giving them aid! I eventually did win this game (my first win), but much of it was due to my diplomatic acumen (I won a diplomatic victory by allying with all surviving AI players). As the game advanced, the Altaran and Torian Empires were allied to me. Seeing how they could not take my planets by force, they resorted to cultural warfare. I did not have enough to fight them both (they had a mutual alliance as well), I was forced to keep them at war with the Arceans, while I gave clandestine aid to the Arceans and finally get them to ally with me (I had a big negotiation edge with the Arceans so that helped.).

In any case, the AI in this game has far surpassed anything I have seen in any game of Civ.

Yor? What the hell is a Yor?

Greyroofoo · 03-07-2006, 09:55 PM

Yor MAMA!!

Eaglesfan27 · 03-20-2006, 12:02 AM

Civ4 is great, but I think Galciv2 is going to be as well. Tonight, I planned on just playing for an hour or two. It's 6 and a half hours later and my wife is dragging me off of the computer or I'd probably play another hour or two.

Brillig · 03-20-2006, 12:10 AM

I wonder if everyone who voted has actually played both...

Franklinnoble · 03-20-2006, 01:24 AM

I've refrained from voting because I haven't played any GalCiv games.

Eaglesfan27 · 03-20-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Brillig

I wonder if everyone who voted has actually played both...

I have.

View Poll Results: Which Provides a better A.I. and a better overall single player experience?
Civilization IV	20	60.61%
Galactic Civilizations II	13	39.39%
Voters: 33. You may not vote on this poll

03-07-2006, 02:22 PM	#7
Blade6119 Coordinator Join Date: Dec 2000 Location: Scottsdale, Arizona	Since i dont like turnbased this was easy for me __________________ *Underachievement* The tallest blade of grass is the first to be cut by the lawnmower. *Despair* It's always darkest just before it goes pitch black. *Demotivation* Sometimes the best solution to morale problems is just to fire all of the unhappy people. http://www.despair.com/viewall.html

03-07-2006, 03:05 PM	#10
Honolulu_Blue Hockey Boy Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Royal Oak, MI	I apologize for the brief threadjack. I'd be interested in this too. I agree that the diplomacy engine for Civ IV isn't all that great or complex. I had one game where Japan was my ally very early on. We were very strong, fought wars together, defended one another, open boarders, trade, the whole nine yards. It was all based on the fact we were both Christian nations. Then, all of a sudden, Japan adopts "free religion" and immediately cuts off all diplomatic ties and goes into their isolationist mode (I wiped them from the map a few hundred years later). It just didn't feel right to me. __________________ *Steve Yzerman*: 1,755 points in 1,514 regular season games. 185 points in 196 postseason games. A First-Team All-Star, Conn Smythe Trophy winner, Selke Trophy winner, Masterton Trophy winner, member of the Hockey Hall of Fame, Olympic gold medallist, and a three-time Stanley Cup Champion. Longest serving captain of one team in the history of the NHL (19 seasons).

03-07-2006, 04:00 PM	#14
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	GC 2 is AWESOME, but Civ4 is still far superior, esepcially with mods and scenarios. I seriously question the sanity of anyone that bought Civ4 and was underwhelmed. Maybe that's not the genre that person should be playing, because it doesn't get any better. __________________ Just beat the devil out of it!!! - Bob Ross

03-07-2006, 04:02 PM	#15
WSUCougar Rider Of Rohan Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Port Angeles, WA or Helm's Deep	What mods do you use for CivIV, Schmidty? __________________ It's not the years...it's the mileage.

03-07-2006, 10:03 AM	#2
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Dunno... don't have GalCiv II. Civ IV was kind of a disappointment, though.

03-07-2006, 02:45 PM	#9
PSUColonel Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Wayne, PA	The reason I'm posing this question is beacause I've read reviews at Gamespy and Gamespot that really talk up GC II's A.I., especially the diplomacy and interaction with other leaders. To me, the diplomacy in Civ IV is sort of weak. To often leaders won't support you even though you support them. (I know I know much lke the real world) But much of the time it just seems like the computer is never willing to deal with human players, or even look at why it might be adventageous for them to align themselves with a human player. It's always give me this or die type shit. Occasionally they'll look to trade. That's really about it though.

03-07-2006, 03:17 PM	#11
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	Agreed - diplomacy was improved over Civ3, but still could have been better. I like the notion of the religion feature, but I feel like it was too politically correct. I think adding actual traits from each religion to the a.i., and maybe realistic costs/benefits from each one would make it a lot more interesting.

03-07-2006, 03:45 PM	#12
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	I have them both and GalCiv 2 just gives me more of the "one more turn" itch. The galaxy will suffer the wrath of my "Chuck Norris" class ships.............

03-07-2006, 04:11 PM	#18
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	One of the features I LOVE in GalCiv2 is designing your own ships. The design system is kind of like playing with legos. You have your basic hull then just add pieces. Link to GalCiv2's forum thread showing off custom ships. http://forums.galciv2.com/?ForumID=162&AID=104951

03-07-2006, 07:09 PM	#24
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Gamespot gave GalCiv II a 9.0 http://www.gamespot.com/pc/strategy/...ml?sid=6145309 Here's them talking about the AI: "This leads to the issue of artificial intelligence, always a controversial subject in strategy games. The AI in Galactic Civilizations II differentiates it from other 4X games: It doesn't cheat, and it's very, very good at higher levels. It's also unique in that the AI doesn't treat the human player any differently than it does the other AI players. You can set the AI to a lower level to allow you to have fun while learning the game, but when you set it higher as you advance in your skills, the game doesn't respond by cheating. Instead, it employs more advanced (and devious) strategies, observing and adapting to your play. For example, at lower levels you could be trading and generally playing nice with a neighboring civilization that is rather weak militarily, while at the same time setting up military starbases and fleets of fighters in their vicinity, and the AI may continue to trust you. At higher AI levels it will recognize the signs of betrayal and take preventive or preemptive actions. In fact, the AI will surprise you with the humanity of its style. You will be simultaneously surprised, pleased, and frustrated when you have almost defeated a civilization, are gloating over the resources that are about to be your spoils of war, and then see your victim surrender to another race that is more aligned to its ethical style just to keep you from taking it over. Or when you're at war with a race and are informed by a superior race that you're hurting their trade income and thus must be eliminated. The AI will watch you and adapt, and not always in a predictable way, even after having played many games. They'll seek out weaknesses and exploit them. At higher levels you'll be convinced that the AI is cheating, but it isn't: It is just diabolically clever at finding ways to optimize strategies. Perhaps the best compliment you can pay the AI in Galactic Civilizations II is that it will beat you in ways that you will respect and admire."

03-07-2006, 09:34 PM	#25
Warhammer Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Dayton, OH	I can't vouch for CivIV's AI, but the AI for GalCivII has been very good so far. I enjoy the diplomacy. This last game, with 9 AIs all set to intelligent, I had various AIs telling me to watch out for the Yor, and to aid any civilizations at war with the Yor. (I had a pretty good diplomacy rating in this game, just FYI) Suddenly, the Yor declare war on me, and the civs that warned me, suddenly start giving me ships to fight the Yor! Not only that, one of the weaker civs that bordered the Yor, send me a message along the lines of "Your war is our war, we will declare war on your enemy." Fighting a war on two fronts, eventually three, the Yor gradually succumb to the combined weight of our fleets. Then, they surrender, not to me, but to the Arcean Empire who had been giving them aid! I eventually did win this game (my first win), but much of it was due to my diplomatic acumen (I won a diplomatic victory by allying with all surviving AI players). As the game advanced, the Altaran and Torian Empires were allied to me. Seeing how they could not take my planets by force, they resorted to cultural warfare. I did not have enough to fight them both (they had a mutual alliance as well), I was forced to keep them at war with the Arceans, while I gave clandestine aid to the Arceans and finally get them to ally with me (I had a big negotiation edge with the Arceans so that helped.). In any case, the AI in this game has far surpassed anything I have seen in any game of Civ.

03-07-2006, 09:38 PM	#26
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	Civ4... easily. Best Civ game ever. Easily better than Civ2, the previous best Civ. Space 4x games have never held me interested quite like Civ or Alpha Centauri. I don't like settling planets. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

03-07-2006, 09:55 PM	#29
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Yor MAMA!!

03-20-2006, 12:02 AM	#30
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Civ4 is great, but I think Galciv2 is going to be as well. Tonight, I planned on just playing for an hour or two. It's 6 and a half hours later and my wife is dragging me off of the computer or I'd probably play another hour or two. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

03-20-2006, 12:10 AM	#31
Brillig College Prospect Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Mountain View, California	I wonder if everyone who voted has actually played both...

03-20-2006, 01:24 AM	#32
Franklinnoble Banned Join Date: Jul 2002 Location: Placerville, CA	I've refrained from voting because I haven't played any GalCiv games.

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