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#1 | ||
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Ice Cream Man
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bay Area
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In-Depth Analysis of Running Back Skills
Introduction
I am reposting this thread since the formatting was lost due to forum upgrade. It was originally posted on March 31, 2005. The original discussion can be found here . When evaluating running backs, I’ve always struggled with which skill category is most important to the player’s success. To help me decide, I decided to run this experiment in to test the impact of the five primary running back attributes: 1) breakaway speed; 2) power inside; 3) hole recognition; 4) elusiveness; and 5) speed to the outside. I did not include third-down running, as that is a purely situational stat, which I may examine more closely some other time. Methodology To conduct this experiment, I set all running back endurance scores to “9” and the overall skill scores to “0”. I then set each of the five skills for all running backs to “1”, except the attribute being tested, which was set to “9”. To conduct the simulation, I set all options to be CPU-controlled and injuries to “0”. I simulated 10 seasons for each of the five attributes, as well as 10 seasons for a control group (all “1”s for RB skill scores). After the simulation, I dropped the highest score and lowest score and arrived at my results. Results Below are the results, expressed in average yards per carry for the entire league, listing the high, low, median and mean. High Low Median Mean Conclusions While I am no statistician, here are some of the things I see:
Last edited by Grid Iron : 04-03-2006 at 05:02 PM. |
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#2 |
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Ice Cream Man
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bay Area
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Attribute Combinations
I decided to run each pair of running back attributes together to determine the degree of impact they have on average yards per carry. In this experiment, two of the attributes were set to 9, while the other three were set to 1. Endurance was set to 9 for all RBs, and injuries were set to 0. Since there were so many combinations, I ran five seasons, dropped the lowest and highest and averaged the three remaining values. Here are the results in average yards per carry over three seasons: Brkaway PwrInsd HoleRec Elusive OutsideI also ran Speed to the Outside with the Hole Recognition and Breakaway Speed Combination: With 1 With 9 This was a very interesting experiment that should help in putting a successful FOF2K4 roster together. Here are some bold conclusions that should serve as interesting material for debate:
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#3 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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I think your conclusions are a bit off, if you notice how the CPU plans its runs, it runs behind the better blockers on the OL. It also schedules more balanced runs early in the game, and more inside runs late in the game, and if you have a lead.
From my observations with my teams, Power Inside has a lower YPC, but more runs tend to be for positive yards. Speed to the outside is good if you have a back that is proficient at it. It does seem to be a little more varied than Power Inside. But, I agree that Hole Recognition is by far the best skill for a RB. But, you need to have either PI or SO, backs that I have seen in leagues with good HR and elusiveness tend not to do as well as backs with good HR and PI or SO. |
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#4 |
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College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
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It's great you did an experiment, but I am not seeing this. My running back with speed to outside, running behind good tackles racks up the yardage. I guess maybe you're saying that if I ran the same plays and all his ratings staying the same that his ypc would improve with a lower speed outside. This seems counterintuitive. Why would Jim include a positive stat that as it gets higher, it results in worse performance???
Normally, if I have good tackles, I look for speed to outside. If I have good guards, I look for power inside. And hole recognition/breakaway speed always. Not sure you're experiment takes into account the O-line guys, which I think is important. Although I guess you did say that if you're not gameplanning that is what you are suggesting. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 04-03-2006 at 09:32 PM. |
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#5 | |
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Ice Cream Man
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
This test is done in the abstract, and looks at the entire league averages using CPU gameplanning. So, gameplanning on your own may yield different results. The differentiation in o-linemen is balanced by the fact that these results are the average from every running back (and hence every Oline) in the league. Further, people will always have anecdotal stories about how "my RB rocked with such and such skills, so your theory doesn't work." That doesn't change the facts of what my tests showed. Everyone is free to draw whatever conclusions they want. ![]() Much of this was discussed in the original post. Definitely give it a read. Lots of different opinions to consider. |
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#6 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Dayton, OH
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I stand by my post, based upon how the AI determines where your backs run, there is no averaging due to the OL. What I think you can base on the numbers is that Hole Recognition is the single most important attribute for an RB. PI and SO seem to be equally important.
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#7 |
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High School Varsity
Join Date: Mar 2001
Location: Noblesville
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Interesting stuff. What did you do to control for offensive lines and defense?
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#8 | |
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Ice Cream Man
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
Nothing, for two reasons. First, and most importantly, it would have been a huge pain to change every stat for every O-lineman in the stat file. Second, I don't think it would have that much of an impact on the results, since they are the averages of every single running back on every single team for every single game for 10 seasons. A total of 5,120 games. |
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#9 |
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Pro Starter
Join Date: Feb 2004
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What would you trade for an 8th-year RB whose hole recognition isn't in the league's Top 35 and his career YPC is 3.81?
![]() Last edited by sovereignstar : 04-04-2006 at 04:34 PM. |
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#10 |
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Coordinator
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Maassluis, Zuid-Holland, Netherlands
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Great study. And part of my guide to get a new RB for my multiplayer teams.
__________________
* 2005 Golden Scribe winner for best FOF Dynasty about IHOF's Maassluis Merchantmen * Former GM of GEFL's Houston Oilers and WOOF's Curacao Cocktail |
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#11 | |
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Ice Cream Man
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: Bay Area
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Quote:
A 1.9, a promising young WR and a second rounder in 2012 of course! ![]() Last edited by Grid Iron : 04-04-2006 at 06:24 PM. |
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#12 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Seattle
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Quote:
Understand. I still appreciate the effort. It does corroborate what I thought in terms of hole recognition. |
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#13 |
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H.S. Freshman Team
Join Date: Mar 2006
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Barry Sanders...was dropped alot behind the line, due to his shake and bake.
This can cause the avg to go down......but he had numerous giant runs... If he was ever shut down and didn't get a huge run.....his great avg. would certainly suffer..... |
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#14 | |
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College Starter
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkeley
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Quote:
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#15 |
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H.S. Freshman Team
Join Date: Mar 2006
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I think it means:
If you run outside theres a greater chance to lose yardage. |
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