NHL MVP

[AgustusM]

OK first things first - I love hockey and have been following for about 10 years, but truth be told I know very little about it.

I grew up with, played and coached Football, Basketball and Baseball and I know these games better then most - but Hockey is a game I understand the rules, I know most of the players and I enjoy the hell out of the game - but I don't really understand the strategy the way I do in the big 3. However there are times that I would rather watch hockey then any other sport.

OK so with that out of the way I am interested in the opinion of more experienced hockey fans on the MVP this season.

My opinion and the prevailing opinion around the bay area is that Joe Thornton of the Sharks SHOULD win but will likely finish second to Jagr.

The prevailing theory in these parts is that obviously Jagr and Thornton have both had great years, but Thornton "deserves" the award more because he is a better overall player, especially on the defensive end - But Jagr will win because the east coast media sees Jagr play more and still considers west coast hockey a bit of a novelty.

Now obviously being a sharks fan I am extremely biased on the matter and I have seen the Sharks about 50 times this season and the rangers maybe once or twice.

What say you wise hockey fans?

[DeToxRox]

Nick Lidstrom should win the MVP and Norris, but I am biased. That said, Thornton is the only reason San Jose is in the playoffs, let alone the 5th seed and legit Cup contender, so you gotta take him.

[SackAttack]

Thornton deserves it because of the San Jose turnaround after he was acquired, IMO. Both teams are likely to be the #5 seeds in their respective conference, but as for how they got there, the Rangers went from #2/#3 to not even winning the division, losing five in a row in the process.

The Sharks went from non-contenders to winning eight of their final 10 and missing home ice advantage in the first round by, what six or seven points?

Jagr makes the Rangers better, but they're probably a playoff team without him. The Sharks on the other hand have seen the lows without Thornton and the highs with him. I honestly think if they had him all season, they win that division.

[JS19]

Never really got in to hockey, but whenever the Rangers make the playoffs I tend to watch a little. All i know is Jagr is on the Rangers, I see him on espn a lot, so my vote is Jagr.

[sachmo71]

I vote Kipper in Calgary.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Jagr makes the Rangers better, but they're probably a playoff team without him. The Sharks on the other hand have seen the lows without Thornton and the highs with him. I honestly think if they had him all season, they win that division.

Please. Before the season started everyone picked the Rangers for dead last in their division. The fact that they made the playoffs is a miracle. Lundquist deserves a ton of credit, but Jagr made this team go.

Jagr, Thornton, Staal in that order.

[MikeVic]

I say Selanne, Tkachuk, Khabibulin, Zhamnov, in that order. Perhaps Numminen and Housley creep up in place of Zhamnov. And as much of a team player as Steen is, I can't see him winning the NHL MVP award.

Wait, what are we talking about here?

[ISiddiqui]

Jagr will win because he better known. Thornton will come in a close 2nd, and Kipprusoff will probably come in 3rd, and Albertans will whine about East Coast and West Coast bias.

Though Hell, if you want to vote based on who is the most indispensible to his club, what about Patrick Elias . Though, seriously, look at the Devils' record when he was out and since he's come back.

[bbor]

Thorton SHOULD be the MVP...he plays P.K,SH....takes all the important face offs for his team.

Jagr scores goals.

Who would you want?

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

I say Selanne, Tkachuk, Khabibulin, Zhamnov, in that order. Perhaps Numminen and Housley creep up in place of Zhamnov. And as much of a team player as Steen is, I can't see him winning the NHL MVP award.

Wait, what are we talking about here?

I think you forgot Jim Kyte and Hannu Jarvenpaa.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by JS19

...whenever the Rangers make the playoffs I tend to watch a little.

Since you haven't watched hockey in 7 years or so, you might want to know that Messier has retired, Gretzky has been coaching, and the defending champions are the Tampa Bay Lightning.

[JS19]

I actually haven't watched hockey since their Stanley Cup year. Tampa Bay are the defending champs, good one.

[Lathum]

Brodeur...

But since he is gonna win the Conn Smythe I'll have to say Jagr

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Since you haven't watched hockey in 7 years or so, you might want to know that Messier has retired, Gretzky has been coaching, and the defending champions are the Tampa Bay Lightning.

[Maple Leafs]

This whole "the east coast media is too stupid to vote for Thorton" story has been beaten into the ground so much over the past week that I bet Thorton wins in a walk.

[Karim]

Calgary is definitely not a playoff team without Kiprusoff but if I couldn't vote for him, I'd vote for Thornton.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JS19

I actually haven't watched hockey since their Stanley Cup year. Tampa Bay are the defending champs, good one.

Now I'm curious if he's merely joking, or he really doesn't know the Lightening won the last Stanley Cup Championship and thinks Pumpy was being cute.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by bbor

Thorton SHOULD be the MVP...he plays P.K,SH....takes all the important face offs for his team.

Jagr scores goals.

Who would you want?

Jagr has nobody on his team. Before the season people were wondering why the signed Martin Straka and Martin Rucinsky. Steve Rucchin is an ok center, nothing special. Michael Nylander is decent but not Patrick Marleau. Don't get me started on the fact that the Rangers corps of defensemen is so awful.

[Booj]

I think Thornton, and if he doesn't win, it better be Kipper... I just think they meant more to their teams...

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by General Mike

Please. Before the season started everyone picked the Rangers for dead last in their division. The fact that they made the playoffs is a miracle. Lundquist deserves a ton of credit, but Jagr made this team go.

Jagr, Thornton, Staal in that order.

Welcome to the New York media. They predict doom, gloom and disaster for their teams every year, because bitching sells newspapers.

What people picked before the season has nothing to do with the actual makeup of the team and everything with the "Oh noes, Rangers had to cut a billion dollars in payroll and they sucked last year, so after they payroll cut they'll suck even worse!"

The New York media loves to go to extremes, apologies to Billy Joel.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Welcome to the New York media. They predict doom, gloom and disaster for their teams every year, because bitching sells newspapers.

What people picked before the season has nothing to do with the actual makeup of the team and everything with the "Oh noes, Rangers had to cut a billion dollars in payroll and they sucked last year, so after they payroll cut they'll suck even worse!"

The New York media loves to go to extremes, apologies to Billy Joel.

The Hockey News, Sports Illustrated and ESPN Magazine aren't the New York media.

[MikeVic]

Originally Posted by Ajaxab

I think you forgot Jim Kyte and Hannu Jarvenpaa.

Hahaha. Jim Kyte rings a bell... no idea who the other guy is... was it Selanne's and Numminen's brother?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Now I'm curious if he's merely joking, or he really doesn't know the Lightening won the last Stanley Cup Championship and thinks Pumpy was being cute.

I wondered that, too.

[Vince]

I can in no way make a logical, defensible argument for any one player, because I don't watch nearly enough hockey. That being said...

...I think it is impossible to understate Thornton's value to the Sharks. We were so atrocious without him it was absurd. Not even close to a playoff contender, let alone a playoff favorite. After we acquired him, we went on an absolute tear, and are now considered to be one of the top teams in the West. The only thing I think that can detract from Thornton's play is the great level of play we got out of Toskala in goal.

[Havok]

Thorton all the way, he's WWWWAAAAAAAYYYYYYY more of a complete player then Jaromir 'i only play offense' Jagr.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by General Mike

The Hockey News, Sports Illustrated and ESPN Magazine aren't the New York media.

The Hockey News is about the only one of the three I would really consider serious journalists. What's your point?

It boils down to the same thing:

"The Rangers paid an assload of money to players last year.

There's a salary cap.

The Rangers have to cut salary to get under the cap.

They sucked ass last year, therefore it's axiomatic that they'll suck even more ass this year.

We pick them for last in the Atlantic Division."

So let's say that's true. That the Rangers collectively are a waste of talent and have Jaromir Jagr to thank for their astonishing resurrection.

What was his excuse in Pittsburgh and Washington?

No, I think that: a) Jagr had a very good year. b) the Rangers are much better than anybody thought they would be. and c) they missed third place in the East by a point because of it, finishing 6th as a result.

So what's more impressive - leading the Rangers to a 6th place conference finish over an entire season, or taking the Sharks from also-rans to the #5 seed in the West in half the time?

I know where my vote goes.

[DaddyTorgo]

is there any precedent for a team trading a player who went on to win the MVP award that season and getting such a total load of shit back as the Bruins did?

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

is there any precedent for a team trading a player who went on to win the MVP award that season and getting such a total load of shit back as the Bruins did?

/cries

[caspanky]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

is there any precedent for a team trading a player who went on to win the MVP award that season and getting such a total load of shit back as the Bruins did?

Being a Sharks fan, I'm hopeing that the precedent gets set this year.

[Ajaxab]

Originally Posted by MikeVic

Hahaha. Jim Kyte rings a bell... no idea who the other guy is... was it Selanne's and Numminen's brother?

We're talking late 80s Jets. The Jets who sucked in the playoffs every year after going up 3-1 in a series. Oh wait, the playoff choke wasn't just a late 80s thing.

Jarvenapaa was a two year flash in the pan who never really did anything.

[jeff061]

All I know is that I hope the Bruins management team dies in a fire.

[ISiddiqui]

Btw, as for the Rangers' success this year. We must also remember that while the team stunk it up in years past (and had to get rid of a lot of high priced talent), they basically were built fairly well for the new rules. The Rangers' problem was that they couldn't do anything in the old obstructionist, slower paced NHL. They had plenty of talent, but they really only worked when they had space to do anything. And what did the new NHL rules intend to do? Give space for offensive players to do things (more or less... very simplified, I know).

That said, I do think that Jagr or Thorton would be a good MVP.

[Suburban Rhythm]

If the award goes to the most valuable player to his team, it should be Kipper. But, I don't really see that happening. You could make a case his job was easier because of the d in front of him, but still that team is nowhere without him.

Thornton made Cheechoo a 50+ goal-scorer. But the guy scored 28 last season in a clutch & grab NHL, and was drafted as a goal scorer. The other guy on that line, Nils Ekman, actually scored one LESS goal this season.

Jagr made Michael Nylander look like a #1 center.

Thornton joined a team that was picked as a playoff team at the beginning of the year without him, and became that. Jagr was on a team picked by everyone to be in the bottom 3-4 teams in the league, and they are in the playoffs.

For me, 1) Kipper 2) Jagr 3) Thornton

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Vince

...I think it is impossible to understate Thornton's value to the Sharks.

From the other coast, I agree with you.

I don't see how this should even be a close vote.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Brian Vogel

Jagr made Michael Nylander look like a #1 center.

Yeah, you know in these debates that fact always makes me come back to Jagr as MVP. I don't know if people realize how impressive that actually is.

[DaddyTorgo]

yeah cronin & jeff...the B's totally lost me on this one. I won't watch another game, spend another dollar (not that i ever spent one), care one more bit until there is a total housecleaning over there on causeway street...Sinden...Jacobs, everyone. I want them all gone. It's frankly ridiculous, although it does give us a window into how say...Devil Rays/Royals/Tigers (till this year) fans felt for a long long time.

about the only way they couldn't have lost me here was if thornton went to SJ and totally bombed. But the fact that you trade a guy who was the #1 overall pick what...9 years ago and is viewed as one of the top 5 in his position in the league...and you get back not even ONE legitimate all-star and not even ONE first line player for him (no brad staurt is not a first line d-man anywhere but here), is absolutely absurd. especially considering that with bergeron developing nicely and thornton under contract and either Raycroft or Toivonen in net and some decent young defenders, this team was not that far away from legitimately being able to make a run, if Jacobs had just been willing to put ANY $ into it.

[jeff061]

It's not even a hindsight 20/20 deal. Everyone was calling for their collective heads the minute it hit the papers.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by jeff061

It's not even a hindsight 20/20 deal. Everyone was calling for their collective heads the minute it hit the papers.

oh no doubt. but if say they had traded him and then it came out that he was retiring at the end of the year to take up ice-dancing or something, i would have been okay with it. but barring anything career-ending on his part yeah...i'm done with the B's.

[bbor]

Sharks were supposed to be a play off team....but started out horrible and looked like they were going to miss the play-offs altogether until Thorton arrived.

Rangers were not going to be a play off team even WITH Jagr.They are a play-off team because of their goaltender(who's name escapes me right now).

I will say it again...Jagr scores goals...that is all.He is not involved with any other aspect of his team.Thorton plays both ways,He scores and is one of the better defensive players in the game.Not only that but he wins close to 70% of his face offs.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by bbor

Sharks were supposed to be a play off team....but started out horrible and looked like they were going to miss the play-offs altogether until Thorton arrived.

Rangers were not going to be a play off team even WITH Jagr.They are a play-off team because of their goaltender(who's name escapes me right now).

I will say it again...Jagr scores goals...that is all.He is not involved with any other aspect of his team.Thorton plays both ways,He scores and is one of the better defensive players in the game.Not only that but he wins close to 70% of his face offs.

Henrik Lundqvist...

...and I don't have anything in front of me, but I highly doubt close to 70%. Brindy and Perrault have been tops all year and are probably only at 60%.

[bbor]

Originally Posted by Brian Vogel

Henrik Lundqvist...

...and I don't have anything in front of me, but I highly doubt close to 70%. Brindy and Perrault have been tops all year and are probably only at 60%.

Thx...i always forget his name

[bbor]

Dola...Thorton wins 51.6 % of his face offs.

My bad.

[Schmidty]

Lidstrom.

Best player in the league.

[AgustusM]

The reason I read that the Bruins gave up on Thornton had to do with him disappearing in the playoffs - so I guess it is fair to say he has not answered that question yet.

[Draft Dodger]

lot of great candidates. I say Kipper, Thornton, then Jagr. I wouldn't take issue to any one of them winning it. You can also make a good case for Lidstrom, Lundqvist, Brodeur, Ovechkin, Crosby and a guy who is getting criminally overlooked - Eric Staal.

[Maple Leafs]

Clearly, you have to go with J.S. Aubin.

[DeToxRox]

I agree with DD.

Staal is getting the short end of the stick for no good reason, and if anyone deserves MVP it's him.

I think he'll still get recoginized on either 1st or 2nd team all NHL but who knows.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Clearly, you have to go with J.S. Aubin.

Yeah, he's gonna be great for the Marlies........until they get swept by my beloved Griffins in the 1st round of the Calder Cup playoffs.

[Suburban Rhythm]

Originally Posted by DeToxRoxDVHStyle

I agree with DD.

Staal is getting the short end of the stick for no good reason, and if anyone deserves MVP it's him.

I think he'll still get recoginized on either 1st or 2nd team all NHL but who knows.

I agree he's getting over-looked, and probably will again when it comes to 1st and 2nd team All-league.

Thornton HAS to be the #1 C if he's top 3 for Hart voting. And you can make a case for Crosby on the 2nd team.

All I can say is thank God the NHL is back...I know people who don't watch it could care less, but I didn't realize how much I missed it until it came back. And I say this after watching the Pens struggle all year

[Greyroofoo]

Thank God hockey is back.

And that's after watching the Wings win all year.