I hate the horse stance!!!

[FrogMan]

Many of you are probably going "huh?" but I'll repeat it, I hate the horse stance.

Okay, feel much better now.

As some of you may know, I practice kenpo karate, been at at it for three years now. After three years, I'm now a 3rd kyu brown belt, with only two more kyus (black stripes on my brown belt) before I'm allowed to test for my black belt. This could mean a black belt test in 12 to 18 months. Meanwhile, I'm going to two hours of traditional classes a week in addition to an hour of bo class and another 2 to 3 hours of bo practice. This is all fine, stuff I have to learn is coming in slowly but steadily. Physically, I'm feeling better than ever, better than what I've felt in many years, especially since I started adding some free bo practices along the weeks. And that's all good since the I've been told that the black belt test is a solid four hours of fun, heh.

Anyway, I know one thing I have to work on early and often and that I won't be able to improve it in the last couple of months prior to the test, and that's the frigging horse stance. Most anybody who's done some sort of martial art knows what the horse stance is. For everybody else, here's a quick depiction of the position:



Here's how the weight is split and how the feet are in that stance:


This is not a super useful position in self defense, but they like to have you do many minutes of it in tests (insert evil laugh) and usually much lower than the position shown by the picture here (insert bigger evil laugh with screams of "LOWER!").

So, I've decided last week to start working on it at work, during lunch hour. I don't know how long any of you can last, but in a pretty low stance, I couldn't last more than 90 seconds on my first try. 90 frigging seconds!!! I've since worked my way slowly up to doing 2:45 today, but I was shaking as hell at the end. Went downstairs to get a cup of coffee from the cafeteria and damn, I was sure my legs were gonna buckle under me.

Anyway, that's all I had to say. I hate the horse stance because it looks like nothing but you get to a point where you can't feel your leg and when you stop and straighten up, while your legs are shaking and all, you have the inner feeling that you could have pushed yourself a bit more and do it a bit longer...

I hate the frigging horse stance but I have to be able to do it, so I'll work on it...

Thanks for reading

FM

[finketr]

can you break boards and stuff yet?

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by finketr

can you break boards and stuff yet?

nope, I can only whack the back of my head with a bo before you bring it up yourself

Seriously, we don't do board breaking. It's not on our style. We're based on self-defense stuff, mostly done with the hands. Some kicks but most of the stuff is with the hands...

FM

[TroyF]

I was in TKD for a long time and we use the stance as well.

Doing a few hundred punches from the position was brutal. We would also do explosion jumpse starting and ending in the horse stance. Horrible memories.

In TKD you do break a ton of boards during your rank tests. I actually liked it, though missing with an axe kick and hitting your achilles on it is NOT a good move. Don't let it fool you, just because you break a few boards doesn't mean it's not a self defense discipline.

If you study martial arts, you should study the facet which you are suited for and what you enjoy. (being 6'3", slender and flexible, TKD was the perfect art for me to learn) ANY form of martial arts should give the average person more than enough ways to deal with anything but the most life threatening event.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

I was in TKD for a long time and we use the stance as well.

Doing a few hundred punches from the position was brutal. We would also do explosion jumpse starting and ending in the horse stance. Horrible memories.

cool! I knew TKD used the stance as well, from reading on other message boards. We sometimes do punches from the stance and kicks starting and ending in the stance (with one long sequence during my brown belt test) and yeah, not good memories.

Originally Posted by TroyF

In TKD you do break a ton of boards during your rank tests. I actually liked it, though missing with an axe kick and hitting your achilles on it is NOT a good move. Don't let it fool you, just because you break a few boards doesn't mean it's not a self defense discipline.

I also was aware of TKD breaking board from I think Radii and Oliegirl's kiddo. I didn't mean it to diminish other martial arts who break board though. I'm really not the kind to say this martial art or that one is better than the other. As you say below, some are better suited to different people.

Originally Posted by TroyF

If you study martial arts, you should study the facet which you are suited for and what you enjoy. (being 6'3", slender and flexible, TKD was the perfect art for me to learn) ANY form of martial arts should give the average person more than enough ways to deal with anything but the most life threatening event.

In my case, I didn't really chose Kenpo so much as we picked it for my son when he was a couple months shy of 5yo and I started practicing it because at one point, I had about no clue if he was doing something right or not. I mean, I had seen enough to know I would probably like the style and all, but I didn't really research different styles to pick one. I then came upon one of their teacher who was pretty intensive, cardio-wise and I can only thank him for bringing my weight down from about 205 to about 193.

The bolded part is so true. That same teacher is 57, in great shape and has worked many years in bars and such and he always has good uses of the self-defense style in real life situations. This helps keep the learning experience fresh from week to week...

FM

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

nope, I can only whack the back of my head with a bo before you bring it up yourself

FM

Have you mastered the 'my balls to your foot technique'

[st.cronin]

I'm eagerly anticipating the parodies.

I hate the whore dance?

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by Mustang

Have you mastered the 'my balls to your foot technique'

Damn it, I thought I was the only one in the world that enjoyed that movie. In fact we own it since it was heavily discounted.

[FrogMan]

I honestly have no clue what movie that is. And no, I've not mastered that technique, and have no desire to either

FM

[Pumpy Tudors]

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

Many of you are probably going "huh?" but I'll repeat it, I hate the horse stance.

Okay, feel much better now.

As some of you may know, I practice kenpo karate, been at at it for three years now. After three years, I'm now a 3rd kyu brown belt, with only two more kyus (black stripes on my brown belt) before I'm allowed to test for my black belt. This could mean a black belt test in 12 to 18 months. Meanwhile, I'm going to two hours of traditional classes a week in addition to an hour of bo class and another 2 to 3 hours of bo practice. This is all fine, stuff I have to learn is coming in slowly but steadily. Physically, I'm feeling better than ever, better than what I've felt in many years, especially since I started adding some free bo practices along the weeks. And that's all good since the I've been told that the black belt test is a solid four hours of fun, heh.

Anyway, I know one thing I have to work on early and often and that I won't be able to improve it in the last couple of months prior to the test, and that's the frigging horse stance. Most anybody who's done some sort of martial art knows what the horse stance is. For everybody else, here's a quick depiction of the position:



Here's how the weight is split and how the feet are in that stance:


This is not a super useful position in self defense, but they like to have you do many minutes of it in tests (insert evil laugh) and usually much lower than the position shown by the picture here (insert bigger evil laugh with screams of "LOWER!").

So, I've decided last week to start working on it at work, during lunch hour. I don't know how long any of you can last, but in a pretty low stance, I couldn't last more than 90 seconds on my first try. 90 frigging seconds!!! I've since worked my way slowly up to doing 2:45 today, but I was shaking as hell at the end. Went downstairs to get a cup of coffee from the cafeteria and damn, I was sure my legs were gonna buckle under me.

Anyway, that's all I had to say. I hate the horse stance because it looks like nothing but you get to a point where you can't feel your leg and when you stop and straighten up, while your legs are shaking and all, you have the inner feeling that you could have pushed yourself a bit more and do it a bit longer...

I hate the frigging horse stance but I have to be able to do it, so I'll work on it...

Thanks for reading

FM

Thanks Frogman, I am so out of shape right now and this is making me want to get back into getting into some kind of regular activity. I already lost 35 lbs doing the low carb thing, but I spend too many hours sitting in front of a computer. I envy you sir. I really do. So forgive me for not feeling sorry for you for not being able to do the horse stance.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

I honestly have no clue what movie that is. And no, I've not mastered that technique, and have no desire to either

FM

Kung Pow: Enter the Fist

I would tell you to rent this movie, but some people hate this movie so much that they feel it is not even worth a rental.

[astrosfan64]

My favorite stance was the "cat" stance. Horse stance is brutal.

[Schmidty]

Go to the gym. Do a lot of work on the leg press and the leg extension, and also try some squats. Start with enough weight to just make it a little hard to get to 15 reps, and then in your second set up the weight as much as you can handle and do 10 reps. Do this over the course of a few weeks, and you'll be able to kick the horse stance's ass. AND, you're legs will almost be as strong as mine.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Thanks Frogman, I am so out of shape right now and this is making me want to get back into getting into some kind of regular activity. I already lost 35 lbs doing the low carb thing, but I spend too many hours sitting in front of a computer. I envy you sir. I really do. So forgive me for not feeling sorry for you for not being able to do the horse stance.

that's okay, envy is all right

35lbs is a very nice start though, congrats on that.

The one thing I probably like the most about our school is that they sorta let you go at your own speed. As was said by my teacher, karate is an individual sport that we practice in groups. I mean, if he asks to do 40 pushups but your current best is only 25, then do 25. Next time, try doing 27, or 30, then maybe one day you'll do the 40 that he's asking for. It's always about trying to better yourself. When I started, I had a hard keeping up with the younger fellows (me being 32 and them being in early twenties) and while I'm not saying that I'm completely up to speed with them, as I said before, I'm doing much, much better now...

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by astrosfan64

My favorite stance was the "cat" stance. Horse stance is brutal.

the cat stance is a cool stance but they usually don't keep you holding it in almost standstill for very long, thus it is easier. It's part of many of our katas and self defense techniques though.

FM

[SirFozzie]

My first martial Arts class, sifu was having folks practice the horse stance to try to get comfortable with it..

A couple people lose their balance, but we're starting to relax into it, when the young daughter of one of the gals in the class asks her daddy.. "Why does Mommy look like she has to go Potty??" loud enough so everyone can hear.

Five people immediately broke the stance because they fell down laughing.

I was one of em

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

My first martial Arts class, sifu was having folks practice the horse stance to try to get comfortable with it..

A couple people lose their balance, but we're starting to relax into it, when the young daughter of one of the gals in the class asks her daddy.. "Why does Mommy look like she has to go Potty??" loud enough so everyone can here.

Five people immediately broke the stance because they fell down laughing.

I was one of em

classic

Almost as classic as this...

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

thanks Pumpy!

FM

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Antmeister71

Kung Pow: Enter the Fist

I would tell you to rent this movie, but some people hate this movie so much that they feel it is not even worth a rental.

So you are the other person in the world that liked this.

Loved it personally.. but, alot of people absolutely hated it.

[bbor]

Horse stance??

It looks like the kick in the balls stance.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Go to the gym. Do a lot of work on the leg press and the leg extension, and also try some squats. Start with enough weight to just make it a little hard to get to 15 reps, and then in your second set up the weight as much as you can handle and do 10 reps. Do this over the course of a few weeks, and you'll be able to kick the horse stance's ass. AND, you're legs will almost be as strong as mine.

I just hate going to the gym, probably hate it more than the horse stance itself, well maybe not, but very close. And I don't have the time, with my oldest son taking much of my time. I also enjoy practicing the bo and karate in general too much to switch an hour of either for an hour of gym.

I do have some dumbells at home though and I could probably do some tiny bits every night or so...

FM

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

I just hate going to the gym, probably hate it more than the horse stance itself, well maybe not, but very close. And I don't have the time, with my oldest son taking much of my time. I also enjoy practicing the bo and karate in general too much to switch an hour of either for an hour of gym.

I do have some dumbells at home though and I could probably do some tiny bits every night or so...

FM

I hear you about kids taking up so much time. My daughter consumes most of the extra time I have. That's why I love the gym I'm a member of: It has a daycare service so they can play while you work out.

Anyway, if the gym isn't an option, there's one other excercise that I used to do all the time. Find a wall. stand with your tailbone barely touching it, keep you feet flat, stick your arms straight out, and bend your knees to almost a 90 degree angle. Stand there for as long as you can, or just time yourself and stop at 1 or 2 minutes. Seriously, it'll hurt a lot at first, but you'll be suprised at how fast your quads and hamstrings will strengthen.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

I hear you about kids taking up so much time. My daughter consumes most of the extra time I have. That's why I love the gym I'm a member of: It has a daycare service so they can play while you work out.

Yeah, the daycare isn't even the problem though He's 9 and has just started his soccer season with indoor practices, a couple times a week. This means I have to drive him to the practice, then not enough time for me to go to the gym and back so I stay there, but that's not a problem since I love watching him anyway. Then, there are the 3/4 separate times a week where he has karate that I end up either having a class, or practicing on my own, so that eats up a lot of time.

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Anyway, if the gym isn't an option, there's one other excercise that I used to do all the time. Find a wall. stand with your tailbone barely touching it, keep you feet flat, stick your arms straight out, and bend your knees to almost a 90 degree angle. Stand there for as long as you can, or just time yourself and stop at 1 or 2 minutes. Seriously, it'll hurt a lot at first, but you'll be suprised at how fast your quads and hamstrings will strengthen.

That's basically what I'm doing when I said I was doing a pretty low stance, meaning a low horse stance, no wall, at almost 90 degrees, maybe just a hair above. No shit, 90 seconds at first and I was shaking, really shaking. As I said, I did 2:45 today went for coffee and added another 60 seconds afterward, and I was really shaking at then end of both sequences. I know I'll eventually block the pain and I'll be able to go for longer periods, but for now, the first couple of weeks have been brutal.

FM

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

Yeah, the daycare isn't even the problem though He's 9 and has just started his soccer season with indoor practices, a couple times a week. This means I have to drive him to the practice, then not enough time for me to go to the gym and back so I stay there, but that's not a problem since I love watching him anyway. Then, there are the 3/4 separate times a week where he has karate that I end up either having a class, or practicing on my own, so that eats up a lot of time.



That's basically what I'm doing when I said I was doing a pretty low stance, meaning a low horse stance, no wall, at almost 90 degrees, maybe just a hair above. No shit, 90 seconds at first and I was shaking, really shaking. As I said, I did 2:45 today went for coffee and added another 60 seconds afterward, and I was really shaking at then end of both sequences. I know I'll eventually block the pain and I'll be able to go for longer periods, but for now, the first couple of weeks have been brutal.

FM

Ah, gotcha.

I just tried the horse stance as shown above, and you're right, it's pretty tough. I think I'll start practicing it just for the hell of it.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Ah, gotcha.

I just tried the horse stance as shown above, and you're right, it's pretty tough. I think I'll start practicing it just for the hell of it.

hehe, try a good low stance and let me know how long you can stand, unless it's something like 15 minutes, then I hate you on top of the stance and I don't want to hear about it

FM

[Buccaneer]

I just tried it and I found that most stress (besides the outer feet) is on the inner vastus right around the knee. Is that right?

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by Schmidty

Ah, gotcha.

I just tried the horse stance as shown above, and you're right, it's pretty tough. I think I'll start practicing it just for the hell of it.

Then start adding things to it. Take both fists, palms upward, and speed punch. Twist and snap the wrist everytime you throw it, then return it to your side with palm facing back up.

Do about 25 punches to start. Then fire off 50. Then 75. Work your way up to 200 punches at a time. If you aren't exhausted, you aren't human.

The worst part of the training for me was the knuckle pushups. In TKD, you punch with only the knuckles of your index and middle fingers. In training, you do pushups on your fists, with only those two knuckles touching the ground. We used to do the damned things on concrete. After we did them, the instructor would look at your knuckles. If more than the two were scraped, you did 20 more. And repeated it until you got it right.

I also competed in some tournaments. To get ready for the beating your shins take in them, you take bamboo and whack each shin about 50 times a day for two weeks. I thought it was bullcrap and didn't do it for my first tournament. After limping around for two weeks, I did it and it really helped. A lot.

Bucc,

Yes, the knees are pressure points when you do it. The longer you stand in the position, your back and shoulders start to ache. Then shortly after that it turns toward your legs, which become weak and unbalanced. It's not uncommen to see new people nearly fall on their face if they don't adjust the first few times they do it.

[CamEdwards]

Not many people realize that Troy was a student of Kobra Kai. I understand you kicked ass in the All Valley Tournament, Troy!

BTW, I was never a big fan of Kung Pow, but we own it. When Andrew was first learning how to talk he LOVED that movie. Called it the "hii-yah baby movie" because of the scene with the fighting baby.

[terpkristin]

I used to do Tang Soo Do, and one night our instructor decided to make us spend the entire night in horse (kimah) stance, doing various things. It turned out that the night before, many people had misbehaved and since it was mostly adult upperbelts in the class, she wanted to teach us a lesson (I hadn't been there the night before, so I was just paying the price).

I couldn't walk remotely normally for about 3 days afterwards.

I feel your pain.
/tk

[TroyF]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

Not many people realize that Troy was a student of Kobra Kai. I understand you kicked ass in the All Valley Tournament, Troy!

BTW, I was never a big fan of Kung Pow, but we own it. When Andrew was first learning how to talk he LOVED that movie. Called it the "hii-yah baby movie" because of the scene with the fighting baby.

lol. No, no Kobra Kai. I loved the tournaments though. I'm 6'3" and not what anyone would call phsyically imposing. Yet, in a TKD tournament, I was feared. The long legs scared the hell out of people. They would inevitibly try to move in close. That's when I could use one of my favorite kicks. I'd use the crescent kick to nail em in the side of the head. I could (and still can despite being out of shape) throw my leg up over the top of my head with power froma standing position.

I won a few tournaments and was really starting to enjoy them. Then my foot hit an elbow whose pad had fallen down. I fractured the foot. Fought the next round but got my ass handed to me. (I got owned good) By the time the foot healed, real life stepped in the way, I left Oklahoma, and never really got back into it. I was less than a year from a black belt.

I should get back in and finish up. But I'd have to start from scratch now. Ugh.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by bbor

Horse stance??

It looks like the kick in the balls stance.

nope, I think you are mistaken. You can download an example of the kick in the balls stance here:
http://www.gkrkarate.org/mmedia/comedy/woman.zip

they do have some other pretty funny clips on this page, including the already well know nunchuck backflip afro dude
http://www.gkrkarate.org/pages/fungames/videos.html

FM

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by TroyF

lol. No, no Kobra Kai. I loved the tournaments though. I'm 6'3" and not what anyone would call phsyically imposing. Yet, in a TKD tournament, I was feared. The long legs scared the hell out of people. They would inevitibly try to move in close. That's when I could use one of my favorite kicks. I'd use the crescent kick to nail em in the side of the head. I could (and still can despite being out of shape) throw my leg up over the top of my head with power froma standing position.

I won a few tournaments and was really starting to enjoy them. Then my foot hit an elbow whose pad had fallen down. I fractured the foot. Fought the next round but got my ass handed to me. (I got owned good) By the time the foot healed, real life stepped in the way, I left Oklahoma, and never really got back into it. I was less than a year from a black belt.

I should get back in and finish up. But I'd have to start from scratch now. Ugh.

wow, that sucks. Would you really have to start from scratch? I know at our school, if you used to practice the style, they usually have you go faster through the ranks.

I do competition, as some might have seen, but I stay away from fighting. I know I would want way too hard and the risk of injury is not something I wanna deal with with two kids at home and a home to take care of...

btw, my son has a belt test this coming Saturday. He's going for his green belt, exactly one belt under me. He'll then have to get a brown stripe on his green belt, then his brown belt and follow the same path I'm in now. He's only 9 though. I'm extremely proud of him as he's really started acting like he cares about what he does. You know, when they start, it's all fun and they test about avery 3 to 6 months, then they hit sort of a plateau and it takes bit longer between tests. He was kind of stuck on that plateau until we started the bo together last Fall and we went to our first competition together in February. Since then, I'm paying a half hour of private bo class and it's simply amazing how much he's growing with it.

In fact here are a couple of videos of him from his last competition a couple of weeks ago: his traditional kata that gave him a firts place and his bo kata with which he finished about 5th.

We will enter in a big competition in Quebec City at the end of the month. Called the Quebec Open, it's the biggest competition in Canada and one of the big ones in North America. They say there are 1500 competitors there every year. I'll be competing in both weapon and traditional katas and Andrew will compete in weapon and traditional katas and also fighting which he likes very much.

FM