Conference Re-alignments in a perfect world

[WVUFAN]

Generally speaking, if any of you were college conference presidents and had an opportunity to reallign your respective conference, would you do so based on region (example, all the Big East teams would be, y'know, on the Eastern part of the country), or by another method?

I'm in the Bowl Bound league Cartman is running, and there's a thread on realligning conferences, so the thought occured to me that it's very strange that the Big East contains teams located in the same general region -- except for South Florida, which is Waaay south of any of the other teams.

[Abe Sargent]

My Big East:

WVU
Pitt

These are the mainstays of the Big East. They have an established rivalry (one of the top 15 according to ESPN in college sports) and where one goes, the other goes. They also have football teams with a chance to threaten every year.


Syracuse

Syracuse was good in the 90's for a good long while. They have the ability to come back again. I see them as more of a next tier team after WVU-Pitt but still a solid entry.


Louisville - Louisville is an up and comer. It's a good team to have in the conference and honestly, its just a matter of time before the Cardinals end up with a BCS bowl berth.


These four teams are the core of my ideal Big East. I think every viable option needs these four teams in it. Now, having said that, here are the rest of my candidates:


South Florida

I like some of the things happening with the Bulls. They are also an up and coming program and provide access to the lucrative Florida markets and recruiting networks


Virginia Tech

The other BE exports, Miami and BC, never felt truly like members of the Big East. Virginia Tech, however, really did. Tech's leaving was a major blow to the conference because it really was a BE school in every way. Bring back VPI, let the others leave.


Virginia

With an established rivalry with VPI, UVA is a natural fit for the Big East. It's right in the area geographically, brings rivalries, and has a very Big East feel to its program.


Maryland

UMD is another northern ACC team with more of a Big East feel than a Tobacco Road or southern football powerhouse feel. UMD also has an established rivalry with WVU and would fit there.



My Ideal Big East:

WVU
Pitt
Syracuse
Louisville
South Florida
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Maryland


All of these teams are good and would threaten to win each year, but none is so dominant (like Miami) that the conference games wouldn't be fun. In any given year, any of these teams could win teh Big East, making it a fun conference!


Outside the Big East Circle:

Temple - Yuck
Rutgers - Yuck
Miami - Never was a Big East school, really
Notre Dame - A fine choice but would never realistically enter the league
Penn State - Another fine choice, would never leave the Big Televen
Marshall - Program has atrophied a bit in the last few years
UConn - Hasn't shown anything yet
Cincinnati - Sorry, but somebody has to be left out
Army - Too weak
Navy - Ditto
Buffalo - HAHAHA
Toledo - Not a bad choice, actually, for a larger Big East
Other ACC Teams - VPI, UVA and UMD really have more BE feels than ACC feels. BC isn't either. All of the other ACC teams really feel like ACC teams.
SEC - Ditto, doesn't feel BEish
MAC - No more MAc schools besides those named. Ick.
Troy State, Florida Int'l - No.



-Anxiety

[WVUFAN]

As an example, here was my proposed Big East, revamped with the idea that teams in a conference should be in the same region:

West Virginia
Pittsburgh
Penn State
Louisville
Virginia Tech
Virginia
Rutgers
Cincinnati
Syracuse
UConn

All are in the same general region, which would save quite a bit on travel expenses, and allow for fans to travel to away games easier.

[Young Drachma]

I want Wyoming back in the WAC, so we have a shot to actually win the conference now that TCU is in the MWC

[Joe]

I'd kick Penn State out of the Big 10.

[TazFTW]

Hawaii in the PAC-11.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by TazFTW

Hawaii in the PAC-11.

got to add one more team so we can be the 12-Pac

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

got to add one more team so we can be the 12-Pac

That's easy get SDSU, Fresno State, or San Jose State.

[ScottVib]

How anyone could kick UConn.. one of the original members of the Big East (from the original formation) is beyond me. If you want to claim they haven't shown you anything yet look at them (in region) and USF (out of region). UConn has a bowl win, USF does not. Last year was UConn's first season as a full Division 1A member that they didn't have a winning record (5-6). While USF looked good defensively last year, their offense was abismal. They'll have QB issues with a new starter next year, and no longer have Andre Hall at RB. Boston College for that matter was a founding member, neither were ever "out of the circle" in my opinion.

In the ideal world there would be a 9 team all sports Big East conference (based on the currently available teams). Virginia Tech would have left for the ACC no matter what if an invitation were to have been granted.

Boston College
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Virginia

Scary thing is that could have happened.... if not for the vote of a few basketball schools. (I'm of the belief that even if Penn State had been granted admission back in the early 80's, that Pittsburgh still would have eventually joined the league)

[Tigercat]

As an offshoot of what we have today:

SEC West
Alabama
Arkansas
Auburn
LSU
Mississippi State
Ole Miss
Florida State

SEC East
Florida
Georgia
Kentucky
South Carolina
Tennessee
Clemson
Georgia Tech


As an LSU fan though, I sometimes wonder if LSU and Arkansas shouldn't geographically be in the Big 12....

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by ScottVib

How anyone could kick UConn.. one of the original members of the Big East (from the original formation) is beyond me. If you want to claim they haven't shown you anything yet look at them (in region) and USF (out of region). UConn has a bowl win, USF does not. Last year was UConn's first season as a full Division 1A member that they didn't have a winning record (5-6). While USF looked good defensively last year, their offense was abismal. They'll have QB issues with a new starter next year, and no longer have Andre Hall at RB. Boston College for that matter was a founding member, neither were ever "out of the circle" in my opinion.

In the ideal world there would be a 9 team all sports Big East conference (based on the currently available teams). Virginia Tech would have left for the ACC no matter what if an invitation were to have been granted.

Boston College
Cincinnati
Connecticut
Louisville
Penn State
Pittsburgh
Rutgers
Syracuse
West Virginia

Scary thing is that could have happened.... if not for the vote of a few basketball schools. (I'm of the belief that even if Penn State had been granted admission back in the early 80's, that Pittsburgh still would have eventually joined the league)

If I were to draw up the Big East as it currently is now with a bunch of non-football schools and football schools combined, then UConn stays. Because of Basketball.

But, since this is more of a football discussion than anything else, yep, I'd kick out UConn. South Florida is on promise AND the market/recruits. UConn doesn't even have the market. (Hartford? Who wants that? And there's not much of a Connecticut recruiting pool).

If I were to audition schools for a ninth spot in my ideal leage, I'd let UConn try to prove themselves on the field to get back in.


-Anxiety

[JonInMiddleGA]

Can I just flip-flop Clemson and Vanderbilt? Those two just always seem to me like each would be a better fit in the other conference.

Aw heck, while I'm tinkering, I'd send BC back to the Big East where they belong.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Aw heck, while I'm tinkering, I'd send BC back to the Big East where they belong.

Don't want em either


-Anxiety

[ScottVib]

Hartford is the nation's 28th biggest market approximately 0.9% of the Nation's total number of TVs. To provide a comparison Pittsburgh (the market covering both Pitt and WVU) is the nations' 22nd market covering 1.0% of the Nation's total homes. A difference of just 0.1%.

Since you brought up marketsize, here are the markets for the teams discussed FWIW:

League 1s markets:
Washington (Maryland) is #8 2,252,550 TVs
Tampa (USF) is #12 1,710,400 TVs
Pittsburgh (Pitt and WVU) is #22 1,169,800 TVs
Louisville (Louisville) is #50 643,290 TVs
Roanoke (Virginia Tech) is #68 440,390 TVs
Syracuse (Cuse) is #76 398,240 TVs
Charlottesville (Virginia) is #186 69,750 TVs


League 2s markets:
New York (Rutgers) is #1 7,375,530 TVs
Boston (BC) is #5 2,375,310 TVs
Pittsburgh (Pitt and WVU) is #22 1,169,800 TVs
Hartford (UConn) is #28 1,013,350 TVs
Cincinnati (Cincy) is #34 880,190 TVs
Harrisburg (Penn State) is #41 (Doesn't fit 100%, but as close as any other) 707,010 TVs
Louisville (Louisville) is #50 643,290 TVs
Syracuse (Cuse) is #76 398,240 TVs

I like my league for the following reasons:
1- 9 Members = Balanced Round Robin scheduling for football -> Round Robin Home and Home in Hoops
2- Compact league actually makes geographical sense
3- League has power and is reasonably balanced in both revenue sports
4- League keeps a traditional feel to the Big East with original members BC, UConn and Syracuse, and long time member Pitt (added 1-2 years after the leagues founding) WVU and Penn State have a long time history with prior member schools dating back to the days of the Eastern Independents.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by dangarion

That's easy get SDSU, Fresno State, or San Jose State.

PAC-10 wont add SJSU because they suck in general. FSU and SDSU are not going to improve the PAC-10. I think the only way the PAC-10 ever adds a team is if Colorado decides it doesnt want to be part of the Big-12

[ScottVib]

Pac-10 Inquired about both Colorado and Texas prior to the formation of the Big XII.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by ScottVib

Hartford is the nation's 28th biggest market approximately 0.9% of the Nation's total number of TVs.

Then I stand corrected on market size of Hartford. It must be deceptively large.


-Anxiety

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Then I stand corrected on market size of Hartford. It must be deceptively large.


-Anxiety

But it is real easy to lump them into the NYC metro area. There isn't that big a distance, where the Pittsburgh area is more isolated from other metro areas, as compared to Hartford.

[JeeberD]

NORTH
COLORADO
KANSAS ST
IOWA ST
NEBRASKA
MISSOURI
KANSAS

SOUTH
OKLAHOMA
TEXAS
UTEP
TEXAS TECH
OKLAHOMA ST
TEXAS A&M

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Rutgers - Yuck

*scribbles down name into notebook*

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

*scribbles down name into notebook*

ditto.

My ideal Big East is basically the same as ScottVib's. I would love to have Maryland in the conference too, but that's not gonna happen.

[jackyl]

Dream league?

B12 North-
Kansas
Kansas State
Colorado
Nebraska
Missouri
Colorado State

B12 South-
Texas
Texas A&M
Arkansas
Oklahoma
Oklahoma State
LSU

Tech can go join the MWC, replace Colorado State, and become an instant rival for TCU. Iowa State can then go join the Big 10 (which now REALLY needs to be renamed) and preserve Notre Dame's virginity. Baylor joins the MWC as well as Fresno State, and the league splits into divisions. The SEC goes after Florida State and Georgia Tech. The ACC retaliates by taking West Virginia and UConn. The remaining six Big East teams join Conference USA.

Got all that? Myles Brand is giving a test out tomorrow morning at eight.

[WVUFAN]

Originally Posted by jackyl

Dream league?


The ACC retaliates by taking West Virginia and UConn. The remaining six Big East teams join Conference USA.

Neat idea for the most part, but I would hate for Pittsburgh and West Virginia to move to different conferences. Virginia Tech's move to the ACC destroyed their rivalry, as Penn State's move did. Pitt/WVU is too good of a rivalry game to be ruined by a conference split.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by Anxiety

Virginia Tech

The other BE exports, Miami and BC, never felt truly like members of the Big East. Virginia Tech, however, really did. Tech's leaving was a major blow to the conference because it really was a BE school in every way. Bring back VPI, let the others leave.

Maybe we felt like a true BE member to the other schools, but we didn't feel that way ourselves. We got dicked around too much when it came to being an all-sports member to really feel welcomed by the other schools (WVU aside - they were our biggest (only?) supporter). That's why most of the VT alumni didn't feel any loyalty to the Big East when the ACC thing went down.

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by WVUFAN

Neat idea for the most part, but I would hate for Pittsburgh and West Virginia to move to different conferences. Virginia Tech's move to the ACC destroyed their rivalry, as Penn State's move did. Pitt/WVU is too good of a rivalry game to be ruined by a conference split.

Agreed. Pitt and WVU aren't going anywhere without each other.


-Anxiety

[Abe Sargent]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Maybe we felt like a true BE member to the other schools, but we didn't feel that way ourselves. We got dicked around too much when it came to being an all-sports member to really feel welcomed by the other schools (WVU aside - they were our biggest (only?) supporter). That's why most of the VT alumni didn't feel any loyalty to the Big East when the ACC thing went down.

Yay my Alum!!! I always felt like Tech was a real BE school, and I still do. So did everybody I knew at WVU - we LOVED having VPI in conference. From my HS (In Charleston WV) about 15% went to Tech and another 15% went to WVU - it was grand fun to taunt each other each year when the game came up.

-Anxiety

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by VPI97

Maybe we felt like a true BE member to the other schools, but we didn't feel that way ourselves. We got dicked around too much when it came to being an all-sports member to really feel welcomed by the other schools (WVU aside - they were our biggest (only?) supporter). That's why most of the VT alumni didn't feel any loyalty to the Big East when the ACC thing went down.

Seconded.
Virginia Tech needs the Big East like a fish needs a bicycle. Zero loyalty whatsoever, as evidenced by the way the BE withheld conference payout money the VT for so many years. Accepting VT initially as a member to BE Football was a bit of a desperation move anyway, is just so happened to pay off in a big way when VT Football blew up in the mid 90's. Leaving the BE was probably the easiest decision VT has ever made. VT is and always has been custom-made for the ACC and their current inclusion isn't the result of some back-office wrangling so much as it was destiny fulfilled.

[Toddzilla]

Dola -

And as much as I hate to say this, because I hate WVU more than I hate Osama bin Laden, is that WVU should have been the 12th team into the ACC and not Boston College.