POL: Pre-1991 Chemical Weapons Found In Iraq

[duckman]

hxxp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,200499,00.html

WASHINGTON — The United States has found 500 chemical weapons in Iraq since 2003, and more weapons of mass destruction are likely to be uncovered, two Republican lawmakers said Wednesday.

"We have found weapons of mass destruction in Iraq, chemical weapons," Sen. Rick Santorum, R-Pa., said in a quickly called press conference late Wednesday afternoon.

Reading from a declassified portion of a report by the National Ground Intelligence Center, a Defense Department intelligence unit, Santorum said: "Since 2003, coalition forces have recovered approximately 500 weapons munitions which contain degraded mustard or sarin nerve agent. Despite many efforts to locate and destroy Iraq's pre-Gulf War chemical munitions, filled and unfilled pre-Gulf War chemical munitions are assessed to still exist."

• Click here to read the declassified portion of the NGIC report.

He added that the report warns about the hazards that the chemical weapons could still pose to coalition troops in Iraq.
"The purity of the agents inside the munitions depends on many factors, including the manufacturing process, potential additives and environmental storage conditions. While agents degrade over time, chemical warfare agents remain hazardous and potentially lethal," Santorum read from the document.

"This says weapons have been discovered, more weapons exist and they state that Iraq was not a WMD-free zone, that there are continuing threats from the materials that are or may still be in Iraq," said Rep. Pete Hoekstra, R-Mich., chairman of the House Intelligence Committee.

The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s. But they do show that Saddam Hussein was lying when he said all weapons had been destroyed, and it shows that years of on-again, off-again weapons inspections did not uncover these munitions.

Hoekstra said the report, completed in April but only declassified now, shows that "there is still a lot about Iraq that we don't fully understand."
Asked why the Bush administration, if it had known about the information since April or earlier, didn't advertise it, Hoekstra conjectured that the president has been forward-looking and concentrating on the development of a secure government in Iraq.

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

The official said the findings did raise questions about the years of weapons inspections that had not resulted in locating the fairly sizeable stash of chemical weapons. And he noted that it may say something about Hussein's intent and desire. The report does suggest that some of the weapons were likely put on the black market and may have been used outside Iraq.

He also said that the Defense Department statement shortly after the March 2003 invasion saying that "we had all known weapons facilities secured," has proven itself to be untrue.

"It turned out the whole country was an ammo dump," he said, adding that on more than one occasion, a conventional weapons site has been uncovered and chemical weapons have been discovered mixed within them.

Hoekstra and Santorum lamented that Americans were given the impression after a 16-month search conducted by the Iraq Survey Group that the evidence of continuing research and development of weapons of mass destruction was insignificant. But the National Ground Intelligence Center took up where the ISG left off when it completed its report in November 2004, and in the process of collecting intelligence for the purpose of force protection for soldiers and sailors still on the ground in Iraq, has shown that the weapons inspections were incomplete, they and others have said.

"We know it was there, in place, it just wasn't operative when inspectors got there after the war, but we know what the inspectors found from talking with the scientists in Iraq that it could have been cranked up immediately, and that's what Saddam had planned to do if the sanctions against Iraq had halted and they were certainly headed in that direction," said Fred Barnes, editor of The Weekly Standard and a FOX News contributor.

"It is significant. Perhaps, the administration just, they think they weathered the debate over WMD being found there immediately and don't want to return to it again because things are otherwise going better for them, and then, I think, there's mindless resistance to releasing any classified documents from Iraq," Barnes said.

The release of the declassified materials comes as the Senate debates Democratic proposals to create a timetable for U.S. troops to withdraw from Iraq. The debate has had the effect of creating disunity among Democrats, a majority of whom shrunk Wednesday from an amendment proposed by Sen. John Kerry of Massachusetts to have troops to be completely withdrawn from Iraq by the middle of next year.

At the same time, congressional Republicans have stayed highly united, rallying around a White House that has seen successes in the last couple weeks, first with the death of terror leader Abu Musab al-Zarqawi, then the completion of the formation of Iraq's Cabinet and then the announcement Tuesday that another key Al Qaeda in Iraq leader, "religious emir" Mansour Suleiman Mansour Khalifi al-Mashhadani, or Sheik Mansour, was also killed in a U.S. airstrike.

Santorum pointed out that during Wednesday's debate, several Senate Democrats said that no weapons of mass destruction had been found in Iraq, a claim, he said, that the declassified document proves is untrue.

"This is an incredibly — in my mind — significant finding. The idea that, as my colleagues have repeatedly said in this debate on the other side of the aisle, that there are no weapons of mass destruction, is in fact false," he said.

As a result of this new information, under the aegis of his chairmanship, Hoekstra said he is going to ask for more reporting by the various intelligence agencies about weapons of mass destruction.

"We are working on the declassification of the report. We are going to do a thorough search of what additional reports exist in the intelligence community. And we are going to put additional pressure on the Department of Defense and the folks in Iraq to more fully pursue a complete investigation of what existed in Iraq before the war," Hoekstra said.

FOX News' Jim Angle and Sharon Kehnemui Liss contributed to this report.

[ISiddiqui]

I find this to be the most important part:

Offering the official administration response to FOX News, a senior Defense Department official pointed out that the chemical weapons were not in useable conditions.

"This does not reflect a capacity that was built up after 1991," the official said, adding the munitions "are not the WMDs this country and the rest of the world believed Iraq had, and not the WMDs for which this country went to war."

So we only found unusable pre-1991 chemical weapons? Though those aren't the ones the US went to war over, right?

[DaddyTorgo]

LOL. it's degraded chemical weapons that WE sold to him prolly in the late 80's during the Iran-Iraq war. LAME. NOT A THREAT

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by sabotai

Is it too late to predict that this won't end well?

You can't really make a prediction on something not ending well when you're the one that started it. Well, I guess you can, but it's retarded.

[sovereignstar]

Fox News is fucking stupid.

[chinaski]

I like how they paraded Santorum out there to trumpet this bs. Hes got absolutely nothing to lose at this point, so why not have him lie his ass off for all of the GOP, it if it blows up in his face, so what?

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by chinaski

I like how they paraded Santorum out there to trumpet this bs. Hes got absolutely nothing to lose at this point, so why not have him lie his ass off for all of the GOP, it if it blows up in his face, so what?

Some people named a certain mixture after Rick Santorum. (check the Urban Dictionary)

[sabotai]

The weapons are thought to be manufactured before 1991 so they would not be proof of an ongoing WMD program in the 1990s.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but this isn't the first time, nor is this the first report, about us finding unusable, virtually empty chemical weapons munitions, is it?

The timing of this is definately suspicious giving the midterms coming up. I doubt it will be the only time they try and push some kind of "see...we were sort of right" nonsense.

[Dutch]

No doubt politicians love timing, but regardless, it wasn't too long ago that the Pentagon released it's findings on its "torture" investigations from 2002/2003 and that was plastered all over CNN as "Pentagon won't say torture illegal"

So it goes...

[sachmo71]

good lord, how desperate are we? it's already been admitted, by the president no less, that the intelligence we were given was faulty. the case for war was based on mistakes. we're there now and we're knee-deep in it. Hopefully we won't leave until some sort of stable life is available for your average Iraqi. Isn't this finding more of a coincidence rather than a vindication?

[Qwikshot]

Isn't that like the Dave Chapelle episode:

"Will we find WMDs in Iraq?"

"Yes...because...we have the receipt"

[Subby]

Wow. Talk about a disingenuous title.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by chinaski

I like how they paraded Santorum out there to trumpet this bs. Hes got absolutely nothing to lose at this point, so why not have him lie his ass off for all of the GOP, it if it blows up in his face, so what?

I don't usually vote, or if i do, its GOP. But i'm definately getting out this fall to vote against Santorum.

[sachmo71]

BTW...let's make the title of the post more accurate, ok?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by sovereignstar

Fox News is fucking stupid.

The most intelligent information in the thread, right here.

[cartman]

Hmm, is it just a coincidence that a little bit before Santorum's press conference was called, the latest poll numbers were released showing him 18 points back in this Senate race?

[st.cronin]

Why are the voters down on Santorum? I don't really know much about him.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Why are the voters down on Santorum? I don't really know much about him.

He's made quite a few asinine statements during his term. One of the most famous is that allowing gay marriage would open the flood gates that wouldn't stop until man-animal marriage is allowed.

There is also some controversy in PA about his residence. He's married with several kids. However, the address he lists as his residence in PA is a empty house, and neighbors don't recall him living there anytime as of late.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cartman

Hmm, is it just a coincidence that a little bit before Santorum's press conference was called, the latest poll numbers were released showing him 18 points back in this Senate race?

Ouch-LOL

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by Subby

Wow. Talk about a disingenuous title.

Fwiw, this is the exact headline on Fox News' website.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Fwiw, this is the exact headline on Fox News' website.

Actually, when I looked a few minutes ago it was "Hundreds of WMDs found in Iraq"

[Subby]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Fwiw, this is the exact headline on Fox News' website.

No it isn't you stupid liberal troll.

[Subby]

I mean you are like jesse ewiak and flasch's pachuli wearing, nuke-protesting marxist-feminist lovechild.

[Subby]

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by cartman

He's made quite a few asinine statements during his term. One of the most famous is that allowing gay marriage would open the flood gates that wouldn't stop until man-animal marriage is allowed.

There is also some controversy in PA about his residence. He's married with several kids. However, the address he lists as his residence in PA is a empty house, and neighbors don't recall him living there anytime as of late.

So I take it he disapproves of women who marry dolphins or snakes?

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

So I take it he disapproves of women who marry dolphins or snakes?

the dolphin lady was british.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

So I take it he disapproves of women who marry dolphins or snakes?

Pretty much. He also put the blame for the Boston diocese priest sex scandal on the people of Boston, not the priests who committed the acts. He said the people of Boston created an environment that fostered and encouraged the behavior of the priests, and that the priests couldn't resist the temptations and pressures. This wasn't a one-time, off the cuff comment. He has stood by it several times.

[duckman]

nm

[gstelmack]

Originally Posted by duckman

You didn't need to be an asshat by using your mod powers to change it.

That would be a nice abuse of the mod powers...

[JW]

I think this story does have more significance than some of you think, even though it is clearly not the smoking gun Santorum wants. I think it has potential significance for the present and near future on the ground in Iraq.

First, it does show Saddam lied about his WMDs (the DOD official says this) and that significant numbers of WMD warheads were apparently on the ground in Iraq at the time of the invasion, and that possibly significant numbers of rounds are still on the ground. That is the present concern.

And if you read the entire story, the story doesn't say that the chemicals have been rendered inert and safe in these rounds. The DOD official says they were not in a usable condition, but what exactly does that mean? Usable as chemical artillery warheads? Well, the insurgents don't have 155mm artillery to begin with. They would attempt to use the weapons in some other way.

It would not be a good thing for Al Qaeda or other insurgents to get their hands on these weapons. An improvised explosive device containing degraded chemicals might still be a pretty ugly thing and a major PR 'victory' for Al Qaeda.

I doubt any of you would want to find out firsthand if 20-year-old sarin or mustard gas is still dangerous.

We may want to just laugh this away, but it is a real potential danger on the ground for US troops. We need to continue searching until we've found and destroyed all these rounds.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

That would be a nice abuse of the mod powers...

Incorrect. As you may or may not realize, this title created quite a nice little dustup earlier. I changed the title to avoid any further fighting, and avoid having the thread locked. There was no political agenda here.

[stevew]

Snachmo made the right call.

[duckman]

nm

[sovereignstar]

For someone that gives Flasch a whole lot of grief...

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by duckman

Fixed that for you.

you can change it to whatever you want. You weren't here when I made the request that you change it, so I did it for you. Just try not to be as flame-a-licious, ok?

[duckman]

Not even worth the trouble...

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by duckman

I'll quit when you stop being an asshat.

don't know if that's possible, sir.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

it's degraded chemical weapons that WE sold to him prolly in the late 80's during the Iran-Iraq war.

FWIW, if you want to be accurate we didn't sell any of the chemical/bio weapons to Saddam. That was mostly the Germans (with the Soviets and French getting in on the other military equipment.) Our relationship was pretty much limited to some satellite imagery once the Iranians began getting the upper hand. But I guess pointing out all those T-72 tanks and AK's we're fighting against instead of American weapons would tear down a nice little comeback.

Originally Posted by JW

I think this story does have more significance than some of you think, even though it is clearly not the smoking gun Santorum wants. I think it has potential significance for the present and near future on the ground in Iraq.

First, it does show Saddam lied about his WMDs (the DOD official says this) and that significant numbers of WMD warheads were apparently on the ground in Iraq at the time of the invasion, and that possibly significant numbers of rounds are still on the ground. That is the present concern.

And if you read the entire story, the story doesn't say that the chemicals have been rendered inert and safe in these rounds. The DOD official says they were not in a usable condition, but what exactly does that mean? Usable as chemical artillery warheads? Well, the insurgents don't have 155mm artillery to begin with. They would attempt to use the weapons in some other way.

It would not be a good thing for Al Qaeda or other insurgents to get their hands on these weapons. An improvised explosive device containing degraded chemicals might still be a pretty ugly thing and a major PR 'victory' for Al Qaeda.

I doubt any of you would want to find out firsthand if 20-year-old sarin or mustard gas is still dangerous.

We may want to just laugh this away, but it is a real potential danger on the ground for US troops. We need to continue searching until we've found and destroyed all these rounds.

Everyone knows there were never any WMD's in Iraq. None. Unless we sold them to Saddam. Otherwise Bush and the CIA made it up. Even those stockpiles that the UN confirmed were there in 1993 but never confirmed as destroyed.

[BishopMVP]

At the risk of unnecessarily getting involved in a stupid argument, the title "WMD's Found in Iraq" is technically correct since it doesn't specify what type or when. And that's the best kind of correct.

[CamEdwards]

FWIW, I think it was wrong for you to edit the title, Satch. Flame-a-licsious or not, it's not like the title of the thead was offensive to anyone. You requested duckman change it and he declined. It appears it wasn't as much a "request" as it was an "order".

[John Galt]

So, Jesse gets banned for a using a political headline used by various left-of-center media outlets reporting the same thing (something like "Poll shows Troops Hate America"), but you are getting all grumpy because sachmo edited your title? Really, lighten up, Francis.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

FWIW, I think it was wrong for you to edit the title, Satch. Flame-a-licsious or not, it's not like the title of the thead was offensive to anyone. You requested duckman change it and he declined. It appears it wasn't as much a "request" as it was an "order".

Don't worry about it, Cam. I changed the title to be more specific and deleted the comments about changing it. It's really not worth the trouble.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by John Galt

So, Jesse gets banned for a using a political headline used by various left-of-center media outlets reporting the same thing (something like "Poll shows Troops Hate America"), but you are getting all grumpy because sachmo edited your title? Really, lighten up, Francis.

That's not why Jesse was banned, and you know it.

[Fonzie]

Oh boy. This is about to get good.

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by duckman

Don't worry about it, Cam. I changed the title to be more specific and deleted the comments about changing it. It's really not worth the trouble.

I'm not really worried about. I just have my "opinionated bastard" label to keep up.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by CamEdwards

FWIW, I think it was wrong for you to edit the title, Satch. Flame-a-licsious or not, it's not like the title of the thead was offensive to anyone. You requested duckman change it and he declined. It appears it wasn't as much a "request" as it was an "order".

I didn't really see anything wrong with the original title myself and I must have missed the "dustup" that resulted from it. In any case, I think sachmo should be disciplined by the Dark Jedi Council by forcing him to wash SkyDog's patriotic undies.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Bee

I didn't really see anything wrong with the original title myself and I must have missed the "dustup" that resulted from it. In any case, I think sachmo should be disciplined by the Dark Jedi Council by forcing him to wash SkyDog's patriotic undies.

i have to lick them, actually.

as for the dustup, the parties involved were very mature and agreed to remove it from the thread. hats off to them...it would be nice to see that happen more often around here.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by John Galt

So, Jesse gets banned for a using a political headline used by various left-of-center media outlets reporting the same thing (something like "Poll shows Troops Hate America"), but you are getting all grumpy because sachmo edited your title? Really, lighten up, Francis.

I've been a part of this community for 6+ years and I have never had a title altered without my permission until now. Instead of talking about how the Republicans will use this in the midterm elections or whether we should have let inspections continued, people are getting sand in their vaginas over the FUCKING TITLE! Last night, someone thought I intentionally made that to deceive when all I did was copied and pasted it from the website. Today, I have someone changing it without the common decency to allow ME to change it.

Oh, and "Lighten up, Francis" part? You should follow your own advice. You're the biggest whiner on this board. "Everthing offends me. waahh"

[CamEdwards]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

i have to lick them, actually.

I just threw up in my mouth.

[stevew]

Popcorn time.