Punch to the face

[rkmsuf]

for the people pushing this

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'Not it!' More schools ban games at recess
Updated 6/27/2006 7:40 AM ET E-mail | Save | Print | Reprints & Permissions | Subscribe to stories like this


Enlarge 2001 file photo, AP

Fourth grade students in Cincinnati, Ohio, play tag together at recess, but now some schools across the country are banning the game, saying it "progresses easily into slapping and hitting."




By Emily Bazar, USA TODAY
Some traditional childhood games are disappearing from school playgrounds because educators say they're dangerous.
Elementary schools in Cheyenne, Wyo., and Spokane, Wash., banned tag at recess this year. Others, including a suburban Charleston, S.C., school, dumped contact sports such as soccer and touch football.

In other cities, including Wichita; San Jose, Calif.; Beaverton, Ore.; and Rancho Santa Fe., Calif., schools took similar actions earlier.

The bans were passed in the name of safety, but some children's health advocates say limiting exercise and free play can inhibit a child's development.

Groups such as the National School Boards Association don't keep statistics on school games.

But several experts, including Donna Thompson of the National Program for Playground Safety, verify the trend. Dodge ball has been out at some schools for years, but banning games such as tag and soccer is a newer development.

"It's happening more," Thompson says. Educators worry about "kids running into one another" and getting hurt, she says.

In January, Freedom Elementary School in Cheyenne prohibited tag at recess because it "progresses easily into slapping and hitting and pushing instead of just touching," Principal Cindy Farwell says.

Contact sports were banned from recess at Charles Pinckney Elementary early this year, says Charleston County schools spokeswoman Mary Girault, because children suffered broken arms and dislocated fingers playing touch football and soccer.

Some schools that ban games at recess allow children to play them in gym class under supervision.

Critics of the bans say playing freely helps kids learn to negotiate rules and resolve disputes.

"They learn to change and to problem-solve," says Rhonda Clements, an education professor at Manhattanville College.

Joe Frost, emeritus professor of early childhood education at the University of Texas-Austin, sees playground restrictions as harmful.

"You're taking away the physical development of the children," he says. "Having time for play is essential for children to keep their weight under control."


http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/...s_x.htm?csp=34

[SunDevil]

FFS

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by SunDevil

FFS

que?

[SunDevil]

For Fuck Sake aka. You have to be kidding me or What is this world coming to.

[BrianD]

"This activity banning brought to you by the Coalition for Raising American Pussies (CRAP)."

[Franklinnoble]

Dammit! I have a two-year old son who's already built like a linebacker... by the time he's old enough, there won't be any competitive sports left in this country.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Dammit! I have a two-year old son who's already built like a linebacker... by the time he's old enough, there won't be any competitive sports left in this country.

people seem to love the spelling bee

[Desnudo]

"dumped contact sports such as soccer and touch football."

I thought touch football was developed as an alternative to a contact sport...

What a bunch of sissies

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

people seem to love the spelling bee

Hey, the kid's smart, but I'm not going to waste his childhood teaching him four different languages so he can compete in a spelling bee and have nothing to show for it in adulthood except some lame trophy. I mean, seriously, I was an Eagle Scout, but it's not like I can go around wearing all my merit badges now that I'm in my 30's.

Well, I could... but it'd be a little too much like that Adam Sandler - Alec Baldwin sketch on SNL.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Franklinnoble

Hey, the kid's smart, but I'm not going to waste his childhood teaching him four different languages so he can compete in a spelling bee and have nothing to show for it in adulthood except some lame trophy. I mean, seriously, I was an Eagle Scout, but it's not like I can go around wearing all my merit badges now that I'm in my 30's.

Well, I could... but it'd be a little too much like that Adam Sandler - Alec Baldwin sketch on SNL.

yeah but you could probably kill a man with a piece of rope and a knot. so you got that going for you...which is nice.

[Grammaticus]

That's funny, they called soccer a contact sport.

[SunDevil]

Originally Posted by Grammaticus

That's funny, they called soccer a contact sport.

Only when people dive to get a yellow card....

[JonInMiddleGA]

I don't really fault the systems for taking the steps to limit a lot of stuff. The risk of lawsuits stemming from injuries sustained simply outweighs the benefits. And if the lack of remotely adequate supervision that takes place on the playground at my son's (now-former) school is any sort of norm, I'd say this the limitations are probably a downright good idea.

It's a different world now than 30 years ago (when I played some of the games in question on the playground), less adult supervision + larger kids (or at least they sure seem a lot bigger at the same age than we did) + a higher rate of escalated violence = good reasons to reduce the number of situations that lead to bad ends.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't really fault the systems for taking the steps to limit a lot of stuff. The risk of lawsuits stemming from injuries sustained simply outweighs the benefits. And if the lack of remotely adequate supervision that takes place on the playground at my son's (now-former) school is any sort of norm, I'd say this the limitations are probably a downright good idea.

It's a different world now than 30 years ago (when I played some of the games in question on the playground), less adult supervision + larger kids (or at least they sure seem a lot bigger at the same age than we did) + a higher rate of escalated violence = good reasons to reduce the number of situations that lead to bad ends.

good luck with that agenda

seems like a totally ass backwards way to go about things

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

good luck with that agenda

No agenda particularly really, just seems to me that the general idea makes reasonable sense as the risks outweigh the benefits.

[Desnudo]

I believe in the touch the burning stove theory. The amount of kids that will be seriously injured in a game of touch football is probably pretty low. As in zero.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

No agenda particularly really, just seems to me that the general idea makes reasonable sense as the risks outweigh the benefits.

the general idea as I interpret it is to take as much burden as possible away from personal responsibility...which is already an issue as I see it in general.

let the system fix any problems or uncomfort from both perspectives. this way the adults have to exert no more effort as well.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't really fault the systems for taking the steps to limit a lot of stuff. The risk of lawsuits stemming from injuries sustained simply outweighs the benefits. And if the lack of remotely adequate supervision that takes place on the playground at my son's (now-former) school is any sort of norm, I'd say this the limitations are probably a downright good idea.

It's a different world now than 30 years ago (when I played some of the games in question on the playground), less adult supervision + larger kids (or at least they sure seem a lot bigger at the same age than we did) + a higher rate of escalated violence = good reasons to reduce the number of situations that lead to bad ends.

For some reason you taking this stance surprises me, not sure why.

That being said, I definately see the logic in making this move. I don't know if I blame the schools as much as I blame our litigious society for this one.

[WSUCougar]

I remember a girl named Cindy I wanted to play "contact sports" with in 4th grade.

[Franklinnoble]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I remember a girl named Cindy I wanted to play "contact sports" with in 4th grade.

[johnnyshaka]

When a kid falls down the stairs while walking to class...are they going to rip out all the stairs and install elevators??

Honestly...shit happens from time to time...deal with it and move on. Little Johnny is going to get a fat lip from running into somebody playing tag or touch football...accidents do happen. If you are worried about violence escalating from an accident like that, then the activity has nothing to do with the violence, there is obviously other issues that need dealing with and banning certain activities is not going to resolve those issues.

[MacroGuru]

Ooohhh...Marketing concept.....Nerf Body Armor........Suit your children up, save their hides from all the dangerous things in life, such as walking, skipping, jumping, and even running....

[FrogMan]

Am I doind something deeply wrong as a parent when my son is practicing football and karate as two of his favorite sports? Oh and don't forget that other very violent sport, soccer...

FM

[FrogMan]

dola, thank God he never got into hockey, that would have been the perfect sign that he's the antechrist...

FM

[JeeberD]

Originally Posted by WSUCougar

I remember a girl named Cindy I wanted to play "contact sports" with in 4th grade.

I remember playing tag with a group of friends in like sixth grade and diving to tag a girl I had a huge crush on. I reached out as far as I could to get her and managed to barely get the tag...on her ass. I don't think I stopped blushing for a week.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

When a kid falls down the stairs while walking to class...are they going to rip out all the stairs and install elevators??

Except walking to class is a fairly necessary part of school. Certain games on the playground aren't.

[Galaxy]

Let's just put bubble-wrap on every inch of our planet. I can see the logic from a legal standpoint due to parents who want their kids to be pussies and hold their hands until they are 30 (which seems to be happening more and more).

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I can see the logic from a legal standpoint due to parents who don't want to face several hundred or several thousand dollars in dental or medical bills caused by somebody else's idiot kid who doesn't know how to play without hurting other kids.

Fixed that for you.

[LionsFan10]

I don't think it's really the system so much as it is American parents, or America in general, who's first reaction to everything is "I'm suing you!"

Shit, I wouldn't want to get dragged into court either because some lazy mother & father are looking to earn a quick settlement because their kid is a pussy.

[BrianD]

Do you really expect to see severl hundred or several thousand dollars in dental or medical bills caused by a game of tag?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Do you really expect to see severl hundred or several thousand dollars in dental or medical bills caused by a game of tag?

Kinda what I was wondering. Kids might fall and get bumps and bruises, but the medical and dental bills are a bit extreme.

[sabotai]

I broke someone's finger playing touch football when I was a kid. We both went to catch the ball and my hand hit his hand at just the right angle and snap it went.

[SFL Cat]

I broke a finger playing basketball on the playground.

[GoSeahawks]

Glad to see Beaverton, Oregon on the list.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Kids might fall and get bumps and bruises, but the medical and dental bills are a bit extreme.

"A bit extreme" is probably what the parents of a few kids at my son's school were thinking when this year when they got the bills for:
a) 13 stitches in the ER
b) an emergency trip to the dentist for a knocked out tooth
c) a broken foot treated in the ER

All three injuries came from otherwise routine playground stuff -- flag football, some sort of game they call "wall ball" (don't ask me what that is, I've had it explained to me several times & still don't quite get it) & (you guessed it) tag.

All 3 resulted from collisions, just cases of impact at the right angle & the right speed I guess. Two boys, one girl, all about average size for their ages, nothing out of the ordinary ... except for the injuries.

So yeah, it does happen & not all that infrequently.

[BrianD]

You have noticed that kids have a lot of energy and tend to run around a lot, right? They climb trees and they ride bikes. All of these things are routine and will occasionally cause an injury when they crash into each other or fall off the bike. Statistically I would imagine these types of injuries are fairly infrequent and not all that dissimilar from injuries that happen outside of school. Do we really need to outlaw any activity that might have a slight chance of causing injury? Maybe we should just make the kids spend their recess sitting in padded chairs playing video games...just as long as we make them take frequent breaks so that can't get addicted or develope Nintendo-thumb.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

"A bit extreme" is probably what the parents of a few kids at my son's school were thinking when this year when they got the bills for:
a) 13 stitches in the ER
b) an emergency trip to the dentist for a knocked out tooth
c) a broken foot treated in the ER

All three injuries came from otherwise routine playground stuff -- flag football, some sort of game they call "wall ball" (don't ask me what that is, I've had it explained to me several times & still don't quite get it) & (you guessed it) tag.

All 3 resulted from collisions, just cases of impact at the right angle & the right speed I guess. Two boys, one girl, all about average size for their ages, nothing out of the ordinary ... except for the injuries.

So yeah, it does happen & not all that infrequently.

So get some fuckin insurance so you don't experience thousands and thousands of medical bills from simple games. At least then you can insure that your son won't be a wimp.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Do we really need to outlaw any activity that might have a slight chance of causing injury?

Let's see here, just working from the situation I was talking about.
3 emergency medical visits from just a 2 grade span (totalling 50 students combined), all related to the same sort of activities that were mentioned in the article.

Total number of trips to the hospital related to incidents on school property that were _not_ related to those activities? Zero (at least within the 2 grades I'm familiar with).

I've been on that playground quite a few times, I'm familiar with how it operates and it would have been a walk in the park to prove that they were negligent in both their supervision and their maintenance of the grounds. And based on conversations with other parents from other schools I believe the former is fairly common, not absolute, but not unusual either.

All I'm saying is that I understand why schools are moving in this direction and that I don't really blame them. The risk simply outweighs the benefits.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

So get some fuckin insurance so you don't experience thousands and thousands of medical bills from simple games. At least then you can insure that your son won't be a wimp.

And does my health insurance cover the schools liability in a civil suit? No.

Idiot.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

And does my health insurance cover the schools liability in a civil suit? No.

Idiot.

Yes, I'm the idiot because your son will end up being a little bitch who constantly gets trampled through his life because he never learned to be a big boy who won't allow himself to be pushed around. Don't blame me for the fact that your son is going to need years of therapy because you wouldn't let him go out and learn how to be a kid.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I've been on that playground quite a few times, I'm familiar with how it operates and it would have been a walk in the park to prove that they were negligent in both their supervision and their maintenance of the grounds. And based on conversations with other parents from other schools I believe the former is fairly common, not absolute, but not unusual either.

All I'm saying is that I understand why schools are moving in this direction and that I don't really blame them. The risk simply outweighs the benefits.

So maintain the grounds. Don't cancel the activities.

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

So maintain the grounds. Don't cancel the activities.

only, it's easier and less risky to cancel that activities than to up the level of supervision and the maintenance of the grounds...

I see Jon's point, but it's a point of view that saddens me deeply. What happened to the good old time when we used to play outside at recess and yeah, we'd get scrapes and bruises and every once in a while we needed stitches (I once needed two after falling on an ice patch in the yard) but heh, life went on. Frigging suit happy generation...

FM

FM

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

All I'm saying is that I understand why schools are moving in this direction and that I don't really blame them. The risk simply outweighs the benefits.

I guess I am wondering where it ends. The only way to prevent collisions on a playground is to outlaw all running. While they are at it, they should probably outlaw swingsets since kids sometimes jump out of a moving swing. They should probably also outlaw bars for kids to hang on and swing on since they could fall off. Slides can be dangerous since kids have to climb a ladder before going down the slide, and anyone walking past the bottom of the slide could get hit.

There should be some level of safety measures taken for playground activities, but outlawing things like tag and touch football seem way over the line.

Really the greater problem to all of this is that parents can and do sue the schools when their kids get hurt by being kids. I can understand the schools wanting to minimize their risk...it just bothers me that they are forced to look at measures like these.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

only, it's easier and less risky to cancel that activities than to up the level of supervision and the maintenance of the grounds...

And therein lies the big problem.

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

Frigging suit happy generation...

This is the crux of the matter. We now live in an entitlement society where we are entitled to everything we want, including the guarantee that we will never get hurt, nobody will ever look at us funny, or say things we don't want to hear.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Logan

Yes, I'm the idiot because your son will end up being a little bitch who constantly gets trampled through his life because he never learned to be a big boy who won't allow himself to be pushed around. Don't blame me for the fact that your son is going to need years of therapy because you wouldn't let him go out and learn how to be a kid.

Boy, to me this is totally off-base and shows a lack of understanding Jon's arguments.

Knowing what little I know of Jon, I would be willing to bet that he is more than willing to let his son play in full, all-out contact sports. In fact, he probably encourages it.

However, Jon is saying from the SCHOOL's point of view, this totally makes sense based on the situation they are handed... And I happen to agree with him. I think it is a sad state of affairs, if I had a kid and their school banned these things I'd be upset, but I can totally undertand why the school does it.

[johnnyshaka]

Wall ball...a tennis ball and a wall are all that are needed...one throws the ball against the wall and another catches...repeat. When the ball is dropped, the droppee must touch the wall before somebody else throws the ball against the wall. Fun, cheap, and non-contact. My guess is the kid who hurt themselves playing wall ball probaby fell while trying to reach the wall. Does this sound like a violent game?? I don't think so.

I played wall ball everyday from grade one to grade six and I'm doing just fine...so are the kids I played it with. There was probably the occassional scrape from tripping on the way to the wall...and probably a welt or two from somebody getting hit with the tennis ball...but all in all, we had fun and worked up a sweat...stuff kids today don't do enough of.

[Butter]

I tripped when I was playing tag in 3rd grade and fell mouth first onto some very sturdy wooden playground equipment. I'm lucky I just bashed my gums on them and didn't drive my teeth up into my head, causing thousands in medical bills.

I am still of the mind, however, that the whole reason for this is so that the teachers don't have to supervise anything. Is it really that hard to see when a game gets out of control and put a stop to it before there is "slapping and hitting"?

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by johnnyshaka

Wall ball...a tennis ball and a wall are all that are needed...one throws the ball against the wall and another catches...repeat. When the ball is dropped, the droppee must touch the wall before somebody else throws the ball against the wall. Fun, cheap, and non-contact. My guess is the kid who hurt themselves playing wall ball probaby fell while trying to reach the wall. Does this sound like a violent game?? I don't think so.

I played wall ball everyday from grade one to grade six and I'm doing just fine...so are the kids I played it with. There was probably the occassional scrape from tripping on the way to the wall...and probably a welt or two from somebody getting hit with the tennis ball...but all in all, we had fun and worked up a sweat...stuff kids today don't do enough of.

You're not playing true wall ball then, just the sissified version.

In real wall ball, if you dropped the ball, you had to run back to touch the wall before the ball hit the wall, or someone pegs you with the ball. In which case you get an out. After three outs, you ass is against the wall to get thrown at by each of the other players...

Non contact my ass...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I tripped when I was playing tag in 3rd grade and fell mouth first onto some very sturdy wooden playground equipment. I'm lucky I just bashed my gums on them and didn't drive my teeth up into my head, causing thousands in medical bills.

I am still of the mind, however, that the whole reason for this is so that the teachers don't have to supervise anything. Is it really that hard to see when a game gets out of control and put a stop to it before there is "slapping and hitting"?

I agree that the supervision is an underlying problem. My g/f is a Kindergarten teacher and it sounds like they have pretty heavy supervision, but I imagine it's a lot different in other (re: more poor) districts. However, even with the heaviest of supervision, these things will happen. I guess the argument could be that with heavy supervision it would be harder to bring lawsuits, but I'm not sure that I buy it.