Stupid $@#$&^$#@ Game!

[Warhammer]

I need to vent. I have been playing a game called NetHack for roughly 3 years on and off. NetHack is a free game that has been developed over 10/15 years. It is very much like Diablo, but much of the monsters and character info was taken from D&D 1st and 2nd editions, but heavily modified. In the game you are trying to get the Amulet of Yendor for your deity.

Anyway, I have played for roughly 3 years and have never come close to winning the game. I started a new character Grundeld the Dwarven Valkyrie on Sunday. Things went well at first. My pet was transformed (by a polymorph trap) from a dog to a Dwarven King who started to pick up all sorts of armor and weapons and became a useful pet. Let me rephrase that, he was useful until he found a pick-axe and decided he was more interested in digging new tunnels than he was in helping me. But, I digress...

Grundeld decended through the Dungeons of Doom, to the mysterious Sokoban levels. She solved the puzzles easily and was rewarded with a Bag of Holding. Equipped with this and her trusty dog, she decided that it was time to tackle the Gnomish Mines. She found lots of loot as her dog did not like the gnomes at all, and gained valuable experience by killing them. Meanwhile, Grundeld scooped up the loot and hoped that there would be some valuable items in the loot.

She made it to Minetown in relatively good shape. She had fought few monsters, but had a ton of loot. Hopefully, an altar to Tyr would be in Minetown and she could sacrifice a few monsters and get some aid in her quest. Unfortunately, the altar was dedicated to Loki and was guarded by a priest. She would be unable to try and get Mjollnar, but she was able to test the loot she got so far and see if it was cursed, blessed, or neither. Most of it was uncursed and she found a set of Elven Mithril chain that she donned as her armor, and a dwarven helm for her head. She then searched for a place to sell her loot, but there was not a general store to be found! Only hardware, food, and a bookstore! So she locked the door to the temple, and hoped that no monsters would plunder her loot.

She descended to the bottom of the mines and found a luckstone. About this time, the dog stepped on a trap and turned into a dwarven king, and he found a set of Elven Mithril chain as well as a unicorn horn to use as his weapon. Things were great. Grundeld returned to the main dungeon and continued her descent.

She worked her way past the Oracle, and still she did not see a store, or an altar to Tyr. She pushed on. Then she realized that she had a pick-axe, so she went back a few levels and found some of Croenus' legendary gold vaults. She liberated this and decided that this should go to the poor. She would donate this money to the priest she came across.

Grundeld shortly there after found a dusty old lamp on the floor. She dipped it into some holy water she had found, to try and clean it. She then gave it a good rub, and a genie popped out and granted her a wish! She had recently received Excalibar from the Lady in the Lake, but she felt that she needed something greater. Perhaps, if she found an altar, she would be found worthy of Mjollnar, the Hammer of Thor. So, to truly harness the power of the hammer, she wished for Gauntlets of Power. The genie granted the wish, and in the next room, she found an altar to Tyr! At about this time, a troop of Orcs wandered into the room, and after a bloodfest, Grundeld was granted Mjollnar, but was warned by Tyr to use the gift wisely.

On the next level she found an armor shop, so she spent much time shuttling her loot from the mines to the shop, while her Dwarven King pet helped himself to some new threads. On level 15 of the dungeon she found a priest of Odin to which she donated the gold she had accumulated and in return received divine protection (increased AC) for her quest.

After a few more levels, she found herself on an island. There was a large island in the middle of the cavern. She pulled out her ring of levitation and moved to this large island. There was a large keep, she searched and found a secret door. She opened the door, and found herself surrounded by statues. She wondered what might lurk in here. She pulled out her blindfold and hoped her telepathy would help her out (gained from a floating eye corpse, you are what you eat you know...). She saw that Medusa lurked in the next room! Keeping her blindfold, she pulled a mirror out of her bag, and entered the room. She heard a shriek, and pulled the blindfold from her eyes. Medusa had turned to stone! She saw a statue nearby that was a hero with a shield that gleamed in the dim light. She looted the statue and found that it was Perseus' famed shield and some levitation boots!

Grundeld then exited the keep to loot the small islands. She had heard of great krakens and eels that pull unwary travellers underwater, so she put her blindfold back on to see them. Unfortunately, a water troll appears and zapped her with a wand of lightning. Several potions, wands, and rings exploded. One of which was her ring of levitation. Luckily, she was over land, so she dug out her wand of fire, and fried that troll. She donned her boots of levitation and decided to continue her descent.

At this point, Grundeld felt she had done well. Her AC was below -15, she had Mjollnar, she had the shield of reflection, all she needed was some more items, and she would be set to get the amulet and ascend with it.

That was when she met the arch-lich. She found herself in a maze, and there were plenty of dragons, which were dispatched with ease. She took the scales of a white dragon to make an armor from when she had more time. She turned a corner and then came face to face with an arch lich. She swung Mjollnar, he cast a spell. The arch-lich reeled from the blow, but Grundeld noticed her helmet crumbled into dust. She swung the great hammer again, but the arch-lich drunk a potion of healing, and teleported away....

She moved on a bit more warily. She called her pet with her magic whistle, but he kept on digging more tunnels, as soon as she was off this level she would zap him with her wand of polymorph, hopefully, he would turn into something with interests other than mining.

Then the arch-lich reappeared. Before Grundeld could react, he summoned a slew of monsters. Grundeld was surrounded. She zapped herself with a wand of teleport, she would get back to the stairs up and prepare herself better for this test. She was not surrounded anymore, and began to head to the stairs, she reminded herself to test her rings and see if she had a ring of teleport control...

Suddenly the arch-lich appeared again, and summoned more monsters. This time a Master Mind Flayer was part of the bunch. Before she could do anything, it had latched onto her and sucked her brain dry...

So ended Grundeld the Valkyrie...

All I can say is I HATE frigging Mind Flayers, and I had a scroll of genocide which I was waiting to bless to take out liches... I was in great shape and could have gone on except for that stinking lich, not only that, but he summons a %#(*@! mind flayer!

Sorry had to vent, I feel much better now... It could have been worse, my soen could have had more experiments with poop...

[vex]

ok

[Schmidty]

I hope that someday my daughter marries a man of your extremely high caliber.

[Warhammer]

Completely a cathartic post. The game is awesome, has tons of depth, and it is a real accomplishment to win it. Its my geek outlet...

[sachmo71]

If you search the Dynasty forum, you can find my best characters...all powerful elementalist who could kill dragons with a single spell, who died of a broken neck in the mountains.


I feel your pain.

[Schmidty]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

Completely a cathartic post. The game is awesome, has tons of depth, and it is a real accomplishment to win it. Its my geek outlet...

Dude, I totally understand. I was just giving you shit.

[Franklinnoble]

"Lightning Bolt! Lightning Bolt!"

[condors]

i spent/wasted a bunch of time on this game. good luck on your future attempts.

[path12]

I've played a ton of Angband to no real success. Was never able to get into Nethack for some reason. I do feel your pain though.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by condors

i spent/wasted a bunch of time on this game. good luck on your future attempts.

How far did you get?

Its funny, I used to love Diablo, but after I played this Diablo...blows... Yeah, it has pretty graphics, but I really don't care about those so much anymore...

[condors]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

How far did you get?

Its funny, I used to love Diablo, but after I played this Diablo...blows... Yeah, it has pretty graphics, but I really don't care about those so much anymore...

i could get through about 6+ levels usually until i read all about everything from a website and then i was able to finish the game without much trouble. It honestly ruined the game for me, but since i have forgotten just about everything maybe i should try it again...

[Radii]

hm, I always enjoyed Angband but never came close to beating it. Is nethack that much deeper/better for those that enjoy these kinds of games?

[path12]

I've actually got a high 30 level character in Angband that I haven't played for awhile.....might have to fire it up again. But of course then I'll stumble into a huge monster pit and he'll be toast......

[Warhammer]

Nethack is MUCH deeper than Angband. Angband was a straight hack/slash type game, but does have the same roots.

In Nethack, when you kill a monster sometimes it leaves a corpse. Do you eat the corpse, and hope it gives you a certain intrinsic, or do you hope to get it some other way. For example, eating a water moccasin could give you poison resistance if you eat the corpse, but it could also poison you, diminishing your strengh.

Also, you kill a cockatrice, which stones creatures. A cocktrice corpse can make a good weapon. But, did you remember to have gloves on? If not, you'll make a nice statue. Make sure you don't fall with the corpse because it will fall on you and stone you, etc.

You will find scrolls that do certain things, spellbooks, you can advance in weapon skills, you have to keep an eye on any noises you hear because that can give an indication of something you are about to face or information about the dungeon level you are on, etc.

There are secret doors, traps, chests, potions, spellbooks, scrolls, wands, artifacts, and stuff like that. Find an Elven dagger? Name it Sting, and see what it does, etc.

[BrianD]

I've only played the game a few times, but I am amazed that people can live long enough to get through it. Getting hungry? Kill something...eat it...get food poisoning...die. See a fountain? Drink from it..see all kinds of snakes pour out...die. You have to interact with things, but interacting with things kills you. Frustrating game....think I'll start another round.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by BrianD

I've only played the game a few times, but I am amazed that people can live long enough to get through it. Getting hungry? Kill something...eat it...get food poisoning...die. See a fountain? Drink from it..see all kinds of snakes pour out...die. You have to interact with things, but interacting with things kills you. Frustrating game....think I'll start another round.

You have to be smart about what you eat. Never, never, never eat a zombie's corpse, that is a sure way to death. Refrain from drinking out of fountains until you are mid/high level. Don't drink out of the fountains in Minetown unless you want to anger the guards, etc.

I found I started living a lot longer after I started playing the game slowly.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by sachmo71

who died of a broken neck in the mountains.

Broke neck mountain??

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by Warhammer

I found I started living a lot longer after I started playing the game slowly.

This is probably smart. The total area of each level is pretty small, so it is easy to go running around like crazy...which isn't always a good idea. Is there a good way to determine which weapons are better than others?

[Warhammer]

Do an online search for NetHack and go to the steelypips spoiler site. Much of which weapon is good for who depends upon the class. If you are going Samurai it is the katana, if you are a knight a long sword, and if you are a Valkyrie either a long sword or war hammer. Others, I don't know.

[BrianD]

Is that site safe to go to if I don't want too much spoiled? Are things split up in a way that I'll be able to see what I want and avoid what I don't want to see?

[saldana]

and this game is free you say?

[path12]

Originally Posted by saldana

and this game is free you say?

Yes, but don't expect graphics. Nethack/Angband and the like go back nearly 30 odd years -- many versions are in ASCII, though there is a rudimentary graphic for Angband and I believe for Nethack (though as I've said above I've never gotten much into that, so it may have changed since then).

[saldana]

Originally Posted by path12

Yes, but don't expect graphics. Nethack/Angband and the like go back nearly 30 odd years -- many versions are in ASCII, though there is a rudimentary graphic for Angband and I believe for Nethack (though as I've said above I've never gotten much into that, so it may have changed since then).

then i dont want to play it....games without graphics that are nothing but screen after screen of text are crappy

[path12]

You are standing in front of a boarded up house....

[Icy]

Umm never played or heard about this game, going to do a google search about it now.

[Bee]

Folks who enjoy some of the roguelike games might want to also check out Helherron. An old school turn based rpg that recently became freeware.

http://www2.lut.fi/~akuukka/helherron/main.htm

[thesloppy]

I've been playing roguelikes for waaaaaay too long, and I love all of these stories. I first got hooked on Hack for the Amiga somehting like 20 years ago now. For a good 10 years the only roguelike I was playing was ADOM until I moved on and now I pretty much play T.o.M.E. exclusively which still keeps me entertained at least 1 or 2 nights of the week. Roguelike's are like crack for people who enjoy character development and stuff collection.

T.o.M.E. allows for some rudimentary graphics as well as all sorts of customizble windows and macros and even mods, so I end up with something which looks a little more like a 'game' than the typical roguelike:



Here's the webpage for T.o.M.E. if anybody's interested (don't downlaod the 3.0 alpha, it's barely into development)

http://t-o-m-e.net/main.php

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by path12

You are standing in front of a boarded up house....

N
ENTER
TAKE LAMP
TAKE KEYS
TAKE BOTTLE
TAKE FOOD
EXIT
S
S
S
OPEN
ENTER
W
TAKE CAGE
W
TURN ON
U
W
TAKE BIRD
E
D
TAKE ROD
U
W
W
D
D
THROW BIRD

Still could do this part from memory after 28 years since I first played it.

[Warhammer]

Sorry, there are tiled graphics for NetHack and the spoiler page will allow you to pick which part of the game you want to get spoiled by.

There is very little text in the game.

[Thomkal]

Been playing roguelike games for many years now. Surprisingly addictive despite the lack of graphics in most versions. Never could get into nethack though, and my problem is that I play so many of the variants that I never seem to get too far in any of them.

I'm currently playing ZangbandTK-the best graphics I've seen, but sadly hasn't been updated in quite some time. Hengband, a Japanese creation using my all time favorite character class, the magic-eater (lets you "Eat" any wands, staffs, and rods you find and then use those powers foreverafter), and TOME.

Maybe I'll have to try Nethack again.

[Draft Dodger]

I think I need to try this

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

Been playing roguelike games for many years now. Surprisingly addictive despite the lack of graphics in most versions. Never could get into nethack though, and my problem is that I play so many of the variants that I never seem to get too far in any of them.

I'm currently playing ZangbandTK-the best graphics I've seen, but sadly hasn't been updated in quite some time. Hengband, a Japanese creation using my all time favorite character class, the magic-eater (lets you "Eat" any wands, staffs, and rods you find and then use those powers foreverafter), and TOME.

Maybe I'll have to try Nethack again.

ZAngband-TK is my favorite roguelike because in addition to the improved graphics, I think it has the best interface of any of the roguelike games I've played. I also play TOME occasionally as well as Nethack.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by saldana

then i dont want to play it....games without graphics that are nothing but screen after screen of text are crappy

NetHack Falcon's Eye has graphics. Not great one's, but it's something.

[Neon_Chaos]

U
U
D
D
L
R
L
R
B
A
B
A
Select
Start

[BrianD]

Isn't there an extra "B,A" in there?

[Thomkal]

I downloaded Nethack (and the larger tiles, which I recommend) and played a tiny bit with it. The graphics are better than previous versions (make sure you player the graphical version when you start the game), but I still find myself scratching my head a bit wondering what my character can do, and what I'm supposed to be doing.

There is a guidebook that comes with the game file when you download it, and there is in-game help to help you identify the things you see and what commands are available.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Isn't there an extra "B,A" in there?

I think you're right.

[Draft Dodger]

I've been having some fun with it as well, and yeah, still pretty lost. but it's a nice timewaster

[wade moore]

Wiki rules.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Contra_Code

Only one "B, A"

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

I've been having some fun with it as well, and yeah, still pretty lost. but it's a nice timewaster

most rougelikes are like this...you can read the manual, but experience is really the key. so just keep playing, playing, playing, what do we do? we play, play, play.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Thomkal

I downloaded Nethack (and the larger tiles, which I recommend) and played a tiny bit with it. The graphics are better than previous versions (make sure you player the graphical version when you start the game), but I still find myself scratching my head a bit wondering what my character can do, and what I'm supposed to be doing.

There is a guidebook that comes with the game file when you download it, and there is in-game help to help you identify the things you see and what commands are available.

Make sure you turnoff autopickup. You might find yourself burdened when you don't want to be.

The best thing to do is to read the guidebook, and possibly Maniac's Ascension Guide (although this is spoiler-ish):

http://homepage.mac.com/mhjohnson/mag-r342.html

For info regarding characters and races:

http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/331/rolerace.html

http://www.steelypips.org/nethack/343/stat-343.html


A few tips:
1) If not a wizard, don't read a spellbook until you know what it is.
2) Never read a cursed spellbook.
3) Your pet will only step on a cursed item "reluctantly", unless pushed there or there is a corpse there. Only put armor on that your pet is willing to walk on.
4) Drinking from fountains and sinks can be a crapshoot, good things can happen, but bad things can as well.
5) When you get relatively tough, you can kick sinks for some interesting effects.
6) Don't eat zombie corpses, and don't eat corpses you animal doesn't eat. Also, don't be a cannibal unless you are a caveman, your deity doesn't like that.
7) Take notes. Scrolls have different effects for the following states: cursed, uncursed, blessed, and confused for some of the states. Also, dungeon graffiti can be indicative of what is nearby, and sounds can indicate what is on the level.

[Draft Dodger]

my pet keeps disappearing on me

plus, I get down a few levels, then can't find stairs going down. and, anyway to sell of all this crap I'm carrying around?

[Thomkal]

First character, second creature I kill (a kobold), drops Sting. Yeah me. As a Knight should I be using this weapon over the +1 long sword and lance I started with?

[BrianD]

How stupid should I feel for dying with 0 points. I somehow managed to kill my kitten (not sure how) and triggered an electricution trap in the first room I visited.

[Antmeister]

For those concerned about graphics, has anyone played this version. It is supposed to be a graphical overlay for the game:
NetHack: Falcon's Eye

Here are some screenshots:




I had it on my freeware page after testing it out, but I didn't realize NetHack was as deep as you described or I would have kept playing. The detail you described at the start of this thread is amazing.

[Bee]

It's been a while since I've played Falcon's Eye, but from what I remember there were some bugs in the game that I don't know if they ever got fixed.

[thesloppy]

I had the same experience with Falcon's eye.....I remember there being some fatal flaw that kept me from using it effectively.

Once you get used to playing a roguelike, I think the graphical interface would be more of a hindrance than a help. Without having to render any graphics, the game plays at a pace as fast as your fingers will allow, which is a great part of it's charm to me personally....and also usually the reason for my death, but that's the way I love to play. Similarly, adding mouse controls and menus slows down the pace ten times over. It also restricts your view of your immediate surroundings to about 1/10th the size of the normal Nethack interface, which could be a big disadvantage in some cases.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by thesloppy

I had the same experience with Falcon's eye.....I remember there being some fatal flaw that kept me from using it effectively.

Once you get used to playing a roguelike, I think the graphical interface would be more of a hindrance than a help. Without having to render any graphics, the game plays at a pace as fast as your fingers will allow, which is a great part of it's charm to me personally....and also usually the reason for my death, but that's the way I love to play. Similarly, adding mouse controls and menus slows down the pace ten times over. It also restricts your view of your immediate surroundings to about 1/10th the size of the normal Nethack interface, which could be a big disadvantage in some cases.

Ah...thanks for the explanation. I also noticed that they haven't updated it in 3 years. It looks as if it only renders with an older version of NetHack. Oh well.

[Vince]

Yeah, looking at the GUI up there, I would think that it would irritate me more than help me.

My little brother and I got hooked on JAMoria for my mom's Mac back in the late 80's early 90's, and I have since moved on to ADOM (which I really, really suck at). I downloaded NetHack once, but never got really into it -- maybe I should try again.

[Warhammer]

Sorry, been away for a couple of days on my first #$%#$%@ ascension attempt. Got the damn amulet, and the fargin wizard came back, stole the amulet, but didn't notice. When I did notice, it was too late. Went back down, but couldn't survive. I guess you could say I couldn't HACK it!

A few things:

Make stockpiles of stuff before you change levels. It is very important to stay unburdened if possible, and when you are not on a level, nothing changes. Ideally, if you can pile everything in a box by a downstairs that is even better. If you find an altar, or a shop, you can go back for the stuff you left in the stockpile. Your best bet for stores are on levels 2 and 3, the chances go down after that.

Regarding weapons, with a knight your best bet is a Long Sword. You can use Sting or any elven dagger, but Long Sword is your best bet since you can get Excalibur later. Depending on how "spoiled" you want to be, I can give you some tips with a knight. The one hint I will give you about it, get to level 5, and think of the Arthur legend and where he got it (but you don't actually go into water).

For those who like hack and slash, the easiest character is a Valkyrie, followed by the Samurai, and then the Knight. However, if you can survive with a knight, they become pretty dang good with spells after they complete their quest.

Note to everyone, after you get the amulet, ALWAYS ALWAYS ALWAYS make sure you have it when you leave Rodney's corpse...