Cause of Big Dig Ceiling Collapse known issue since 1999.

[SirFozzie]

I'm sorry, if some folks don't end up in jail on negilent homicide charges, it's because they've bribed folks. They knew this could happen since 1999, but never fixed it??? There are 60 OTHER such sections in the tunnel on the east bound side?

Attorney General Thomas F. Reilly said at an afternoon press conference that anchor bolts similar to those involved in the partial collapse of the Interstate 90 connector tunnel failed field studies as far back as 1999.

When anchor bolts gave way Monday night, 12-tons of ceiling tiles crashed into the tunnel, killing Milena Del Valle, 38, of Jamaica Plain.

“The problem with the anchor bolts was identified in the fall of 1999,” said Reilly, whose office has launched a negligent manslaughter investigation. “It was not only identified, but there was a plan to address that problem.”

Five of the anchor bolts gave way in the 1999 study, Reilly said, referencing documents unearthed during the probe by his office. Investigators are trying to determine what was done with the plan formulated to fix the problem.

“Obviously we know right now that there was a huge failure,” Reilly said.

Investigators have determined that the contractor and Bechtel/Parsons Brinckerhoff, the main company behind the Big Dig, knew about the issue, Reilly said.

“I have no information at this point that this information was brought to the attention of the Turnpike Authority,” Reilly said.

The bolts that failed Monday had been anchored in the concrete ceiling with epoxy, but not affixed to a metal support rail, as was done with ceiling panels in other tunnels in Boston. The tiles facilitate airflow.

The anchor bolts that failed Monday night pulled out of the concrete in a “clean break,” Reilly said.

Transportation officials have been removing the tiles in the 200-foot tunnel connector, which links Interstate 93 to the Ted Williams Tunnel.

Inspectors have found 60 more problem areas in the eastbound lanes. Crews are still checking the westbound lanes.

[Warhammer]

I REALLY hope B/PB get it stuck to them. Those guys are complete asses.

[SirFozzie]

Agreed, I think there will be some B/PB folks called before a judge if it turns out they never implemented a plan to fix these errors.

[Galaxy]

What exactly is the purpose of the Big Dig project?

Also, when is it suppose to be finished?

[SirFozzie]

Big Dig [3] is the unofficial name of the Central Artery/Tunnel Project (CA/T), a massive undertaking to reroute the Central Artery (Interstate 93), the chief controlled-access highway through the heart of Boston, Massachusetts, into a 3.5 mile (5.6km) tunnel under the city, replacing a previous elevated roadway. The project also included the construction of the Ted Williams Tunnel (extending Interstate 90 to Logan International Airport) and the Zakim Bunker Hill Bridge over the Charles River.

The Big Dig is the single most expensive highway project in American history. Although the project was estimated at $2.5 billion in 1985, when the last major highway section opened in December 2003, over $14.6 billion had been spent in federal and state tax dollars as of 2006. The project was replete with delays, arrests, escalating costs, leaks, poor execution and use of substandard materials.

The Ted Williams Tunnel opened to all traffic in 2003.

[Klinglerware]

I actually miss the elevated highway. It was fun to drive through and see the buildings on either side. With all the traffic, there was plenty of time to check out the view...

[DaddyTorgo]

wow. that's fucking...criminal. i hope B/PB gets fucking...bankrupted by that guy's civil suit. that is really...wow...i'm speechless

[Pyser]

man, the stories i heard about how incompetent the big dig builders are were already legendary when i left the city over 5 years ago. i cant even imagine how many classic stories there are now.

like the tunnel being dug from 2 opposite ends that missed each other by 20 feet....or the tunnel digging machines that couldnt go in reverse, so instead they were walled off, to stay forever in the tunnels.

not to mention the announcement they were a BILLION dollars over budget...and this was 5 years ago...

[SirFozzie]

Just $11 Billion over projected cost from 185.. what.. you expect safety for that little? Ugh.

[Bubba Wheels]

Well, I just want to thank the state of Massachussetts and its politicians for spending the equivalent of our Apollo Program so that its citizens can drive UNDER the water as opposed to OVER it.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Bubba Wheels

Well, I just want to thank the state of Massachussetts and its politicians for spending the equivalent of our Apollo Program so that its citizens can drive UNDER the water as opposed to OVER it.

Something like the Big Dig was necessary, Boston had the worst traffic in the nation due to gridlock in that area... but wow has this thing been mismanaged.

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Something like the Big Dig was necessary, Boston had the worst traffic in the nation due to gridlock in that area...

Agreed. The key aim was to alleviate congestion and improve access into Logan from the Mass Pike. Tunnels were proposed as part of the solution (the big dig encompasses more than tunnels), and weren't built just for the sake of the building them.

[Warhammer]

I worked on supplying some stormwater pumps for the sewers near several of the interchanges on this project. It astounded me the number of unnecessary items that they had in the specs that increased the cost of the pumps by 50-75%.

[albionmoonlight]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Something like the Big Dig was necessary, Boston had the worst traffic in the nation due to gridlock in that area... but wow has this thing been mismanaged.

From the description above, it sounds like they just replaced an elevated road with an underground one. Is it more lanes or something?

Also, while no one expected it to cost $14 billion+, I imagine that for that kind of scratch Boston could have invested in a mass transit solution that would have solved the traffic problem, been better for the environment, and not become eventually obsolete as more people with more cars move in and start driving (as always happens whenever there are highway improvments).

[Warhammer]

IIRC, the elevated road is now all one direction and the underground one is the other direction.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Something like the Big Dig was necessary, Boston had the worst traffic in the nation due to gridlock in that area... but wow has this thing been mismanaged.

Someone needs to try the 101/405 interchange at about 9 in the morning before they can declare that

[Bee]

Originally Posted by albionmoonlight

From the description above, it sounds like they just replaced an elevated road with an underground one. Is it more lanes or something?

Also, while no one expected it to cost $14 billion+, I imagine that for that kind of scratch Boston could have invested in a mass transit solution that would have solved the traffic problem, been better for the environment, and not become eventually obsolete as more people with more cars move in and start driving (as always happens whenever there are highway improvments).

$14 billion doesn't go as far as the normal person thinks when talking about mass transit (which is generally much more expensive per mile than highways) and it also doesn't address traffic beyond local movements. Mass transit is a great supplement but very seldom works as a replacement solution.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

Someone needs to try the 101/405 interchange at about 9 in the morning before they can declare that

Boston's very bad when it comes to traffic.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Bee

$14 billion doesn't go as far as the normal person thinks when talking about mass transit (which is generally much more expensive per mile than highways) and it also doesn't address traffic beyond local movements. Mass transit is a great supplement but very seldom works as a replacement solution.

Building underwater has to be much more expensive than building above water.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Building underwater has to be much more expensive than building above water.

I'd assume mass transit would go under as well based on the EIS documents.

[MrBug708]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Boston's very bad when it comes to traffic.

I dont doubt it. But since I've started working at UCLA, nothing makes me more miserable then going 100 feet in 45 minutes

[Fighter of Foo]

I always thought the purpose was to be able to use the land that was previously taken up by elevated freeway while also improving traffic flow with new tunnels, bridges, etc.

So what's planned for where the freeway used to be? A fucking park.

I'm all for greenspace, but a $5 BILLION dollar park?

I wish we had New Hampshire's government here.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Building underwater has to be much more expensive than building above water.

Not necessarily, considering the amount of ship traffic Boston Harbor receives.

[SirFozzie]

Basically, the area that the Big Dig is replacing was a traffic nightmare. There were too many areas thtat spilled INTO that section of the elevated roads, that it got to the point of daily backups. There were entrance ramps without merge lanes (causing many many accidents, which backed up traffic more)

You have Boston's Logan Airport, South Boston, etcetera. When you consider the amount of lost time etcetera, the original project was a needed thing. However, the whole thing has been a clusterfuck, slipping time and budget deadlines, and a lot of the work done was substanbdard. Our AG was already suing the contractors for a large portion of the Big Dig to recover money when this happened.

So they came up with the series of connectors

[AZSpeechCoach]

And the thing is, I love Boston's subway system (the T). When we go to the Harvard tournament each year, we travel exclusively by the T. Unless you are in a far-flung suburb, it is very close to anywhere you might need to go.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by MrBug708

I dont doubt it. But since I've started working at UCLA, nothing makes me more miserable then going 100 feet in 45 minutes

I've never understood the LA, "Let's drive everywhere, even just a few feet down the road" thinking.

[Celeval]

The T is definately solid, especially compared to Atlanta's.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Fighter of Foo

I always thought the purpose was to be able to use the land that was previously taken up by elevated freeway while also improving traffic flow with new tunnels, bridges, etc.

So what's planned for where the freeway used to be? A fucking park.

I'm all for greenspace, but a $5 BILLION dollar park?

I wish we had New Hampshire's government here.

A park??????????????? That's pretty valuable land, isn't it?

[Galaxy]

The subway systems are pretty good in Boston.

[SirFozzie]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

A park??????????????? That's pretty valuable land, isn't it?

The enviromentalists got their way on it.

[Pyser]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

The subway systems are pretty good in Boston.

unless you need to get somewhere after midnight.

or if you like standing in zero degree weather outside.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

The subway systems are pretty good in Boston.

Ugh - I raise you the green line. The B line in particular - evil. If you lined up every BU student and pushed em off a bridge, it might get better though.

[Pyser]

thanks crapshoot, thats what i was getting at.

i loved standing outside for 30 minutes waiting for a trolley, and when finally came it was completely full, and then 4 more in a row came right after it, all slowed down by the first one.

theres no system to it at all, that green line.

[Castlerock]

Originally Posted by Pyser

man, the stories i heard about how incompetent the big dig builders are were already legendary when i left the city over 5 years ago. i cant even imagine how many classic stories there are now.

like the tunnel being dug from 2 opposite ends that missed each other by 20 feet....or the tunnel digging machines that couldnt go in reverse, so instead they were walled off, to stay forever in the tunnels.

not to mention the announcement they were a BILLION dollars over budget...and this was 5 years ago...

I think you are mis-remembering. I'd be interested to see a link about the tunnels that missed by 20 feet. I have never heard that. I also don't think there were any tunnel-digging machines used in the big dig.

[Pyser]

i dont have links. these were just some of the stories going around boston at the time.

[miked]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

Ugh - I raise you the green line. The B line in particular - evil. If you lined up every BU student and pushed em off a bridge, it might get better though.

I see your B and raise you an E? Try waiting for those one-car trains on the weekends, or during rush hour when 3-4 of those one car suckers come through in a row.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by miked

I see your B and raise you an E? Try waiting for those one-car trains on the weekends, or during rush hour when 3-4 of those one car suckers come through in a row.

The key is knowing when it'll be 3-4 trains in a row. Sit back and let everyone stuff into the first, and get a seat to yourself three minutes later.

[BishopMVP]

There's a reason why Massachusetts is the only state in the union to lose people in both of the last two census reports. Well, more than one, but it all starts at the State House - and the new mandatory health insurance isn't going to help encourage recent college grads or small businesses to stay either.

And as much as I'd love Bechtel to get hit hard here, don't forget the sub-contractor(s) and the parts of the government responsible for overseeing safety. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be mostly taxpayers paying in the end.

[BishopMVP]

Dola - and just after posting that I see we'll soon have a minimum wage $2.50 higher than New Hampshire by Jan 1, 2007 and $3 higher by 1/1/2008.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Originally Posted by Celeval

The T is definately solid, especially compared to Atlanta's.

I liked Atlanta's Marta when we were there in 2003 for nationals.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

There's a reason why Massachusetts is the only state in the union to lose people in both of the last two census reports. Well, more than one, but it all starts at the State House - and the new mandatory health insurance isn't going to help encourage recent college grads or small businesses to stay either.

And as much as I'd love Bechtel to get hit hard here, don't forget the sub-contractor(s) and the parts of the government responsible for overseeing safety. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be mostly taxpayers paying in the end.

I love Boston, but I'm not sure exactly what the government is thinking in going even more liberal in its policies when you have businesses moving and people leaving. The high cost of housing doesn't help either.

[Celeval]

Originally Posted by AZSpeechCoach

I liked Atlanta's Marta when we were there in 2003 for nationals.

It's great if you're going someplace right on one of the two-and-a-half lines. Sucks if you're going anywhere else.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

And as much as I'd love Bechtel to get hit hard here, don't forget the sub-contractor(s) and the parts of the government responsible for overseeing safety. I'm pretty sure it's gonna be mostly taxpayers paying in the end.

True, but as the GC, it is Bechtel's responsibility to make sure the job is completed as planned and as specified. That is the problem you have with ENCs in general. They are great in theory, but who makes sure that the ENC doesn't approve something to keep them in the black or on schedule.

[miked]

Originally Posted by AZSpeechCoach

I liked Atlanta's Marta when we were there in 2003 for nationals.

MARTA is suck. We just moved here from Boston and only have one car, so I take the bus to work. It would be nice if one day it could actually be on schedule.

[SirFozzie]

More than 240 loose ceiling bolt fixtures are scattered throughout the Interstate 90 connector tunnel, said Turnpike Authority officials, who announced yesterday that the tunnel could remain closed for weeks as engineers determine whether to repair or replace the tunnel's drop ceiling.

The suspect bolts were holding up bulky concrete ceiling panels over every lane of the heavily traveled tunnel, where panels collapsed Monday night, killing Milena Del Valle. Law enforcement officials investigating the 38-year-old Jamaica Plain woman's death are focused on the failure of bolt-and-epoxy fixtures.

Despite the existing federal and state investigations, lawmakers on Beacon Hill and Capitol Hill -- facing unprecedented public outcry over the Big Dig's most recent and tragic failure -- called for additional probes.

[Crapshoot]

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

There's a reason why Massachusetts is the only state in the union to lose people in both of the last two census reports. Well, more than one, but it all starts at the State House - and the new mandatory health insurance isn't going to help encourage recent college grads or small businesses to stay either.

I don't know - there are plently of businesses (like consulting/finance) that aren't leaving Boston for Bumblefuck, USA anytime soon - the roots are here, and the access to talent and what not is greater here. Yeah, housing costs are nuts, but to take my own example ( I wouldn't move down South even if housing was half the cost ) and I venture a lot of people around here feel that way.

[AZSpeechCoach]

Originally Posted by Celeval

It's great if you're going someplace right on one of the two-and-a-half lines. Sucks if you're going anywhere else.

Everything we needed was on one of those lines, so I guess that's why I was impressed.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Crapshoot

I don't know - there are plently of businesses (like consulting/finance) that aren't leaving Boston for Bumblefuck, USA anytime soon - the roots are here, and the access to talent and what not is greater here. Yeah, housing costs are nuts, but to take my own example ( I wouldn't move down South even if housing was half the cost ) and I venture a lot of people around here feel that way.

True, there is always going to be that base of high finance businesses and professionals in the Boston area who can survive the high overhead. Plenty of people want to move to/stay in Boston, and there are more than enough upper middle class/rich people to populate the surrounding area out to 95/495 (a migration process started nicely by busing and racism). But contrary to what most people who live in this area (and that seemingly includes most politicians) think, the state doesn't end at 495. Go out to Worcester, Springfield, Pittsfield, New Bedford, Fall River, Lowell etc.

And in Metro Boston, it's quickly turned/turning into haves/have nots due mainly to housing costs. Either you have the money to live in a nice neighborhood/suburb or you're forced to live in an area with skyrocketing crime rates, including a doubled murder rate this year alone. If you're not loaded, by the time you can get affordable real estate prices, you're already so far away from Boston you might as well just move to New Hampshire/Nashua area.

I think a bit of a housing correction has already started happening, but the underlying problem is that the state government focuses on Boston and inside 95 while the rest of the state falls apart. And if I had gone to school in Boston instead of Amherst, I wouldn't know or care either.

[BishopMVP]

Originally Posted by Celeval

It's great if you're going someplace right on one of the two-and-a-half lines. Sucks if you're going anywhere else.

IIRC, isn't Atlanta about as spread-out a city as you can have? If so, it's kind of silly to compare it to a Boston system where the city/population is so much denser and thus easier to build lines to.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I love Boston, but I'm not sure exactly what the government is thinking in going even more liberal in its policies when you have businesses moving and people leaving. The high cost of housing doesn't help either.

If you have crippling traffic and demand creating enormous housing costs, maybe it's a good thing that you have a population downturn. A lot of Northeastern cities, including Philly, Baltimore and DC, have been losing people over the past couple of years.