Minimum Wage Increase Passed by House

[Peregrine]

I haven't seen a thread about the latest election year shenanigans by the Republicans in the House, a lovely bill so they can run campaign ads saying "Soandso Senator says he supports the working poor, but why did he vote against increasing the minimum wage? Call Senator Soandso and ask him why."


July 29 (Reuters) - The following are details of a Republican-written bill to raise the minimum wage, cut taxes on inherited wealth and renew several expiring tax breaks for businesses and individuals.

The bill would cost the federal treasury roughly $310 billion over 10 years.

The bill:

* Raises minimum wage over three years to $7.25 an hour from $5.15 an hour. Allows employers to count tips toward meeting minimum wage increases, overriding state laws prohibiting that.

* Excludes estates up to $5 million per individual from inheritance taxes as of January 1, 2015. That amount is phased-in starting in 2010 when the individual estate tax exemption will rise to $3.75 million from $3.5 million. It also gradually increases exemption from gift taxes to $5 million.

* Taxes estates over $5 million to $25 million at the capital gains rate, currently at 15 percent. Anything over $25 million would be taxed at 30 percent. President George W. Bush's 2001 tax cut included a phase out of the estate tax but full repeal would only last for one year in 2010. Without congressional action, in 2011 the tax would be reimposed on estates over $1 million and the top rate would be 55 percent.

* Renews a number of popular expired tax breaks for individuals and businesses and extends them through 2007. Tax breaks include a $4,000 deduction for college tuition, a deduction for state sales taxes and a tax credit for research and development.

* Shifts some coal companies' costs for retiree health benefits and land reclamation to taxpayers.


My favorite is the last one, nothing like blatant corporate welfare for the administration's pet energy sector. What's next, passing a bill that says specific people don't have to pay taxes anymore, and their mortgage costs and monthly limo fees will be picked up by the American people?

[SackAttack]

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

A few things jump out at me.

1) How shit-ass is Kansas that they've got a lower minimum wage than the federal rate, knowing full well that the federal rate takes precedence? Did they pass a state rate before the federal government stepped in to pass their own, and never bother changing it?

2) Not at all surprised by how much of the midwest will be affected by this. Fairly surprised at the Old Northwest being in the same boat. I would've expected some of those union states to have a higher minimum wage to begin with.

3) Employees who collect tips can have those counted towards minimum wage increases? Did I read that right?

I know employers can already pay less than the minimum wage if tips are making up the difference, but now this bill actually lets employers off the hook with relation to wage increases and put it right back on the employees by saying "earn more tips"? Am I actually reading that right?

[stevew]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm


3) Employees who collect tips can have those counted towards minimum wage increases? Did I read that right?

I know employers can already pay less than the minimum wage if tips are making up the difference, but now this bill actually lets employers off the hook with relation to wage increases and put it right back on the employees by saying "earn more tips"? Am I actually reading that right?

I think it means that if an employee is making more than the minimum wage in tips per hour, that the employer will no longer have to chip in the 2.13 an hour. But maybe not.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by stevew

I think it means that if an employee is making more than the minimum wage in tips per hour, that the employer will no longer have to chip in the 2.13 an hour. But maybe not.

ugh, i sure hope thats not the case....talk about a shot at the lowest of wage earners.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Flasch186

ugh, i sure hope thats not the case....talk about a shot at the lowest of wage earners.

Are you kidding? The two years I worked as a bartender in Milwaukee I earned 75K in TIPS each year.

[Bearcat729]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

http://www.dol.gov/esa/minwage/america.htm

A few things jump out at me.

1) How shit-ass is Kansas that they've got a lower minimum wage than the federal rate, knowing full well that the federal rate takes precedence? Did they pass a state rate before the federal government stepped in to pass their own, and never bother changing it?

I know that Ohio actually has a state minimum wage of $2.35, but I've never seen any company that doesn't base the amount they pay off of anything but the federal rate.

[Flasch186]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Are you kidding? The two years I worked as a bartender in Milwaukee I earned 75K in TIPS each year.

bartender and wait staff make two totally different pay scales. I was wait staff.

[stevew]

Wait staff usually make way more than the other help in the joint, and sometimes even more than the lower level managers.

[Flasch186]

not at the place i worked....Store manager, then Bar, then asst. mgr, then closers, then waitstaff, then AW & hosts....( I may be missing some that I dditn work with and its been awhile).

[sabotai]

Originally Posted by Peregrine

* Shifts some coal companies' costs for retiree health benefits and land reclamation to taxpayers.

My favorite is the last one, nothing like blatant corporate welfare for the administration's pet energy sector.

Yeah, I pretty much hate this bill.

[Young Drachma]

Well, they knew it wouldn't pass. They were just wanting to use it as a way to go back to their districts and say "see, we did something on the minimum wage."

Ugh. Classy. Good thing Congress is getting COLA increases, I mean, with all the hard work they do and all.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Well, they knew it wouldn't pass.

Umm ...
The House in the early hours voted 230-180 to raise the $5.15-per-hour minimum wage in three 70-cent steps until it reaches $7.25 in mid-2009.

Happily, the Senate will almost certainly reject the measure, but that's the Senate (which wasn't enamored with a minimum wage change in the first place, regardless of what else the bill might include).

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Umm ...
The House in the early hours voted 230-180 to raise the $5.15-per-hour minimum wage in three 70-cent steps until it reaches $7.25 in mid-2009.

Happily, the Senate will almost certainly reject the measure, but that's the Senate (which wasn't enamored with a minimum wage change in the first place, regardless of what else the bill might include).

I meant the Senate wasn't going to pass it. Sorry. I mean, its never going to be law. At least in its current form and they all readily admitted to that when the GOP pushed it through.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I meant the Senate wasn't going to pass it.

I thought that might have been what you meant, but I wasn't sure.

[Izulde]

Minimum wage just jacked up to $6.50 here in Wisconsin as I've mentioned before. Pisses me off because now I earn minimum wage where I was pretty comfortably above it before, so my purchasing power just got shot in the ass since prices are going to go up around the state now.

Thanks a lot, asshat government.

I *hate* minimum wage increases. All they do is cripple the working poor, cause inflation, and other obnoxious economic effects.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I meant the Senate wasn't going to pass it. Sorry. I mean, its never going to be law. At least in its current form and they all readily admitted to that when the GOP pushed it through.

Agreed.

Here are some excerpts from FoxNews:

Republicans muscled the first minimum wage increase in a decade through the House of Representatives early Saturday after pairing it with a cut in inheritance taxes on multimillion-dollar estates.

Combining the two issues provoked protests from Democrats and was sure to cause problems in the Senate, where the minimum wage initiative was likely to die at the hands of Democrats opposed to the costly estate tax cuts. The Senate is expected to take up the legislation next week.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid vowed Democrats would kill the hybrid bill, along with its 10-year, $300 billion-plus cost.

"The Senate has rejected fiscally irresponsible estate tax giveaways before and will reject them again," Reid said. "Blackmailing working families will not change that outcome."

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Minimum wage just jacked up to $6.50 here in Wisconsin as I've mentioned before. Pisses me off because now I earn minimum wage where I was pretty comfortably above it before, so my purchasing power just got shot in the ass since prices are going to go up around the state now.

Thanks a lot, asshat government.

I *hate* minimum wage increases. All they do is cripple the working poor, cause inflation, and other obnoxious economic effects.

your asshat company doesn't give you a corresponding bump to whatever you were at before above the new minimum wage? wow that must suck!

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

Agreed.

Here are some excerpts from FoxNews:

Republicans muscled the first minimum wage increase in a decade through the House of Representatives early Saturday after pairing it with a cut in inheritance taxes on multimillion-dollar estates.

Combining the two issues provoked protests from Democrats and was sure to cause problems in the Senate, where the minimum wage initiative was likely to die at the hands of Democrats opposed to the costly estate tax cuts. The Senate is expected to take up the legislation next week.

Senate Minority Leader Harry Reid vowed Democrats would kill the hybrid bill, along with its 10-year, $300 billion-plus cost.

"The Senate has rejected fiscally irresponsible estate tax giveaways before and will reject them again," Reid said. "Blackmailing working families will not change that outcome."

The estate tax should be killed.

[Passacaglia]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

your asshat company doesn't give you a corresponding bump to whatever you were at before above the new minimum wage? wow that must suck!

I think you'll find most companies won't. At least, not for a good year or more, and even then, if we're talking retail, they'll probably only do it for new employees. I'm sure my pay will be completely unaffected by this. Do you expect a raise when minimum wage goes up?

[flere-imsaho]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Are you kidding? The two years I worked as a bartender in Milwaukee I earned 75K in TIPS each year.

Then you clearly weren't among the "lowest of wage earners" to which Flasch was referring.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

Then you clearly weren't among the "lowest of wage earners" to which Flasch was referring.

My point was that those who earn tips usually AREN'T.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think you'll find most companies won't. At least, not for a good year or more, and even then, if we're talking retail, they'll probably only do it for new employees. I'm sure my pay will be completely unaffected by this. Do you expect a raise when minimum wage goes up?

my lovely retail company does it for everyone. it won't be instant, but it will be for new as well as currently employed partners. or at least they did the last time the minimum wage was raised.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

my lovely retail company does it for everyone. it won't be instant, but it will be for new as well as currently employed partners. or at least they did the last time the minimum wage was raised.

Interesting. Off-hand, I don't recall ever hearing of a company doing that.

[Vegas Vic]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

The estate tax should be killed.

The minimum wage and the estate tax should be voted separately on their own merits. Otherwise, it's just meaningless political gamesmanship, and the authors of this particular bill know it.

[Izulde]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

your asshat company doesn't give you a corresponding bump to whatever you were at before above the new minimum wage? wow that must suck!

I wasn't surprised when they didn't and I honestly don't blame the company. It does frustrate me though that the new people make just as much as I do now.

Not only do most retail companies not do this as others have indicated, the particular store I work in is situated in a mall that are bastards when it comes to rent. They jack up the rent astronomically the more money you make, so a lot of stores are only in the mall for a few years before they have to close down, because the store owners can't make enough money due to the rent being raised so high.

[DaddyTorgo]

i guess i just have it real real good then. *shrugs*

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Vegas Vic

The minimum wage and the estate tax should be voted separately on their own merits. Otherwise, it's just meaningless political gamesmanship, and the authors of this particular bill know it.

Agree with you. Was just making a statement.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by Izulde

Minimum wage just jacked up to $6.50 here in Wisconsin as I've mentioned before. Pisses me off because now I earn minimum wage where I was pretty comfortably above it before, so my purchasing power just got shot in the ass since prices are going to go up around the state now.

Thanks a lot, asshat government.

I *hate* minimum wage increases. All they do is cripple the working poor, cause inflation, and other obnoxious economic effects.

Yeah, you just lost a couple raises I'm sure. I hate it too. The thought that they would be paying 16 year old worthless kids 6-7 bucks an hour in the same place where "experienced" people make slightly more than that sucks.

[AENeuman]

Loads of friends who where waiters got laid off here in SF when the city wage went up to 10 something.

min wage include a cost of living increase

Also, I think there should be diffrent min wage for under 18 and above. most teenagers have a job to buy a car and a psp, a lot different than most adults

[Young Drachma]

Here's an open ended question..

How do people feel about people who work for minimum wage, but are still unable to make a living. Is it as simple as "tough shit, have fewer kids or work more?" or is it truly a concern that ought to be addressed in our society? And I mean this in purely economic terms, not in a "if everyone loved Jesus, waited until marriage to have sex and children, etc. and voted for Dubya everything would be fine..." sort of way, but purely from a policymaking standpoint.

I'm just curious to know what people think of this, since we all know somebody who deals with this in a real way and naturally, have some sort of opinion on it.

My answer to my own question will follow.

[Young Drachma]

As I drive around the hinterland, I often wonder why no one moves anymore. There have been anymore "mass exoduses" to other parts of the country to seek out new jobs, etc., by Americans. I know some folks move to do family being in a certain region or due to cost of living, but ultimately...the only real exodus we're talking about migrants from Mexico or Latin America.

So, what about ordinary Americans who over a hundred years ago would've packed up the family and moved West in search of a better life? Or are we so comfortable and have our expectations of the government "taking care" of stuff left people incapable of feeling as if they can truly improve their lot?

Because it sure does seem that way. Whether its lamenting the lack of a living wage, so-called afforable housing or anything else, it seems that people are more and more concerned with how the government can do more for them, than they are willing to admit how much they can do for themselves.

This isn't about people who are disabled or have other issues, but...the more I think about it, the more it really troubles me at the mentality that too many folks have adopted.

Go ahead and tear that one at the limbs.

[AENeuman]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

As I drive around the hinterland, I often wonder why no one moves anymore. There have been anymore "mass exoduses" to other parts of the country to seek out new jobs, etc., by Americans. I know some folks move to do family being in a certain region or due to cost of living, but ultimately...the only real exodus we're talking about migrants from Mexico or Latin America.

That's not true. Look at any population growth chart and compare it to jobs lost/gained, there is a connection. From high tech jobs in Bay Area to hotel and construction in Vegas.

Also, here's where your lame "public education sucks" mantra may be true. If, social economically speaking, we produce what we need, then if we create/mold minds that place material wealth as the measure of being good citizen, then we will always be artificially filling in gaps for those who cannot achieve the "dream". If, on the other hand, we as a society create a min floor to which everyone should live that goes beyond purchasing power real change may happen.

This concludes the hippie hour, i'm off to eat some cherry garcia

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Or are we so comfortable and have our expectations of the government "taking care" of stuff left people incapable of feeling as if they can truly improve their lot?

I'm not sure that these two things are as related to the "lack of exodus" (for lack of a better phrase) as you proposed, or at least not in the way I'm perceiving your connection.

Rather, there's a homogenization of the U.S. that's probably greater than ever, which removes a lot of the motivation for any great "Go West Young Man" movement. Also, there's a wee bit o' difference in the amount of available space now vs then. And those places that do have lower population density aren't exactly considered garden spots ... which is what more people prefer at this point. And with a retail and/or service driven economy, jobs aren't as plentiful where there's a low population density anyway. And somewhere along the way, the government-as- nanny thing kicks in, creating options other than accepting a "I hate the area but there's work to be had" type of move.

[Galaxy]

Saw this failed by 4 votes in the Senate.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Oh noes! Now the coal company I work for will go under!!!

[revrew]

In a related topic to the "exodus" concept, I do find it odd that in a supposede free market economy, so many individuals make themselves slaves to geography, thus nullifying the benefits of the free market. (Obviously, there are always legitimate exceptions when talking about the poor, but) why not just move to where better pay/living expenses ratio can be found? Why settle for ever making minimum wage, unless it's a part-time, just-to-get-by job or a teenager position?

If a company in California is paying $8 an hour, you sure as heck can't afford to live there on that, so...why stay?

I've moved from Texas, to Minneapolis, to Iowa, to Chicago, now back to Iowa, each time improving my wage/living expense ratio.

I guess I'm just commenting on how the free market economy only works if people make it work, and I'm surprised so few take advantage of the benefits. Or, to clarify my point, if a company pays minimum wage, why does anyone take that job? (Second income, student income, illegal income--these I understand, but if you're the breadwinner...why?) Those companies should be driven out of business for lack of job applicants.

[yabanci]

amusing quote by Sen. Kay Bailey Hutchinson (R-Tex) on the floor of the senate:

"[by not passing the bill], we are turning our back on the middle-class and poor people in this country who depend on the minimum wage and death-tax relief."

[ISiddiqui]

Middle class and poor people depend on death-tax relief, which only kicks in for estates over $1 million? Sorry, I call bullshit on Senator Hutchinson.

[HomerSimpson]

Sorry, but I have always hated the inheritance tax. The government has already Taxed the family once, why do they get to keep taxing the family again and again for the same items?

This double, triple, quadruple taxation never made any since to me. I have already paid the taxes on this money once, why should I have to pay more taxes on it if I want to give it to my children?

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson

Sorry, but I have always hated the inheritance tax. The government has already Taxed the family once, why do they get to keep taxing the family again and again for the same items?

This double, triple, quadruple taxation never made any since to me. I have already paid the taxes on this money once, why should I have to pay more taxes on it if I want to give it to my children?

Agree with this. Canada, Australia and many other countries do not impose it.

[Brian Swartz]

"[by not passing the bill], we are turning our back on the middle-class and poor people in this country who depend on the minimum wage and death-tax relief."

Another example of how true conservatism is dying. Ask a Democrat what's wrong with the economy? The government is doing enough. Nothing new there. But now Republicans say the same thing. Never is it seriously considered anymore that government might be the cause of the problem in the first place. God help America, and I mean that literally.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson

Sorry, but I have always hated the inheritance tax. The government has already Taxed the family once, why do they get to keep taxing the family again and again for the same items?

This double, triple, quadruple taxation never made any since to me. I have already paid the taxes on this money once, why should I have to pay more taxes on it if I want to give it to my children?

Some, often a very large, portion of an estate has never been taxed - most notably capital gains.

[HomerSimpson]

Originally Posted by Masked

Some, often a very large, portion of an estate has never been taxed - most notably capital gains.

And, this is how Ma & Pa lose their family farm.

Nothing is being bought or sold, but everytime the farm gets passed down from generation to generation the Government is there with their hand out telling the family members to sale the back 40 acres, because some bean counters in Washington claim the farm is worth THIS much.

...200 years later and there is nothing left of a family farm that dated back to the founding of this country.

[Galaxy]

I heard on NPR (Not sure if it's accurate or not) the other day that taxes would double if we don't get our spending curbed.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Galaxy

I heard on NPR (Not sure if it's accurate or not) the other day that taxes would double if we don't get our spending curbed.

lol

Noted economist Chicken Little, I'm sure.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

lol

Noted economist Chicken Little, I'm sure.

Not really a listener to NPR, was flipping through and heard the discusssion which got me interested.

[Galaxy]

Originally Posted by Brian Swartz

Another example of how true conservatism is dying. Ask a Democrat what's wrong with the economy? The government is doing enough. Nothing new there. But now Republicans say the same thing. Never is it seriously considered anymore that government might be the cause of the problem in the first place. God help America, and I mean that literally.

I'm conservative in the financial sense as well as government involved, but I hope the Dems clean up this election, and maybe get the Reps to wake up and get to its roots.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by HomerSimpson

And, this is how Ma & Pa lose their family farm.

Nothing is being bought or sold, but everytime the farm gets passed down from generation to generation the Government is there with their hand out telling the family members to sale the back 40 acres, because some bean counters in Washington claim the farm is worth THIS much.

...200 years later and there is nothing left of a family farm that dated back to the founding of this country.

Only if Ma & Pa's family farm is worth over $1 million.

[Masked]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Only if Ma & Pa's family farm is worth over $1 million.

Actually $2 million - there is an added protection for family owned farms. Very few farms are actually subject to the estate tax, and the American Farm Bureau, who is against the estate tax, was asked to list farms that had to be sold to pay the estate tax - they did not come up with any examples.

[ISiddiqui]

Well there you go (I stand corrected on the amount). There are ways to argue against the estate tax without appealing to the falsity that is the "family farm" excuse.