Gatlin faces lifetime ban...is testosterone illegal now?

Poli · 07-30-2006, 10:25 PM

I have special interest in it because Gatlin when to Tennessee, but when did testosterone become illegal?

Greyroofoo · 07-30-2006, 10:27 PM

Me thinks there's a feminist joke somewhere to be found.

SirFozzie · 07-30-2006, 10:33 PM

Testosterone isn't. Illegal ratios of testosterone and epitestosterone is.

(basically, if it's produced naturally, there should be a certain ratio of the two.. if due to doping, there is extra testosterone, and no extra epitestosterone

nilodor · 07-30-2006, 10:36 PM

Having extremely high levels of testosterone is considered a sign of cheating. Testosterone I think has similar effects to HGH and can also be a marker for other performance enhancers. They test the level against something that starts with an E, I can't remember it now. In most people the ratio is 1:1, the level used to be 6:1 testosterone to the other one, now I think it is 3:1, which is still 3 or 4 standard deviations above the norm. It is the same thing Floyd Landis is running into. Some people have very high natural occuring testosterone levels, so they will check the B sample for, I think, genetic indicators.

rowech · 07-30-2006, 10:39 PM

This guy's coach says someone "sabatoged" him. Meanwhile his coach is connected to Marion Jones and Montgomery. These athletes are getting out of control. They took the drugs. You can't tell me these guys aren't monitoring things going into their bodies...either themselves or the coaches/trainers. Either way, it's the athlete's responsibility.

Poli · 07-30-2006, 11:22 PM

I just find it odd you can go to GNC or any other vitamin store and buy a testosterone product over the counter...and these guys (didn't know that this was the case with Landis as well) are getting hit for it.

ISiddiqui · 07-30-2006, 11:29 PM

It doesn't matter if its legal or illegal, if it is against the rules, it is against the rules.

Poli · 07-30-2006, 11:40 PM

I suppose that's true.

I'm sure the athlete's know that high levels of T can get them busted.

I guess what I'm getting at is that it sucks that stuff you can buy through normal means can get you busted.

BishopMVP · 07-31-2006, 02:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I just find it odd you can go to GNC or any other vitamin store and buy a testosterone product over the counter...and these guys (didn't know that this was the case with Landis as well) are getting hit for it.

Landis' excuse is that he got drunk the night before, which naturally raises the testosterone to epitestosterone level.

As certain as I am that many of these athletes are doping, the tests and thresholds used to suspend them are not nearly as cut and dry as doping agencies make them out to be. It's not like the old days where you could discover precisely which horse tranquilizer Ben Johnson was using on a given day.

Also, FWIW, if Gatlin is proven guilty he is facing a lifetime ban. He was suspended before for taking ADD medication.

Karlifornia · 07-31-2006, 02:55 AM

I was drunk during the watermelon seed spitting contest, and they busted me. Don't worry about me, boys....I spit some seeds in the testers general direction--I think they got the point.

tanglewood · 07-31-2006, 03:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

I guess what I'm getting at is that it sucks that stuff you can buy through normal means can get you busted.

Stickum is prefectly legal to buy but it's illegal to use in the NFL. I don't really see much difference.

Karlifornia · 07-31-2006, 03:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Stickum is prefectly legal to buy but it's illegal to use in the NFL. I don't really see much difference.

Thats why I buy O'Henderson's Brand Stickum: All the Stickum goodness, but 100% undectable by the NFL stickum tests

Poli · 07-31-2006, 03:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tanglewood

Stickum is prefectly legal to buy but it's illegal to use in the NFL. I don't really see much difference.

Next you're going to tell me someone can't take a urine test for me.

BishopMVP · 07-31-2006, 05:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ardent enthusiast

Next you're going to tell me someone can't take a urine test for me.

Are Whizzinator jokes still timely?

I wouldn't compare it to stickum because there is an easily definable amd enforceable line there. With supplements these days it's all such a gray area that if the "acceptable" testosterone-epitesterone level is 4 to 1, then any athlete who isn't at at least 3 to 1 is hurting himself with regard to the competition. In the NFL, it's easy to make the distinction between applying stickum and not applying stickum, in Track & Field cheating is the difference between using 7.5mL of some substance or 10mL.

TroyF · 07-31-2006, 06:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

Are Whizzinator jokes still timely?

I wouldn't compare it to stickum because there is an easily definable amd enforceable line there. With supplements these days it's all such a gray area that if the "acceptable" testosterone-epitesterone level is 4 to 1, then any athlete who isn't at at least 3 to 1 is hurting himself with regard to the competition. In the NFL, it's easy to make the distinction between applying stickum and not applying stickum, in Track & Field cheating is the difference between using 7.5mL of some substance or 10mL.

And that's why you need a doctor and you need to be careful as to what you put into your body. This is your sporting life on the line here. It's your career. Guys like Landis and Gatlin have highly paid medical experts who make those calls. I have very little sympathy.

stevew · 07-31-2006, 08:05 AM

Looks like Gatlin may want to reconsider that move to football that he turned down.

dontreadthis · 07-31-2006, 08:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stevew

Looks like Gatlin may want to reconsider that move to football that he turned down.

I think that was Xavier Carter......

stevew · 07-31-2006, 08:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontreadthis

I think that was Xavier Carter......

I'm pretty sure the story was that the option was out there for him, but his agent Renaldo "Skeets" Nehemiah told him to pass it up. As he can/could get a lot of money in appearance fees in track and field.

Maple Leafs · 07-31-2006, 08:18 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BishopMVP

As certain as I am that many of these athletes are doping, the tests and thresholds used to suspend them are not nearly as cut and dry as doping agencies make them out to be. It's not like the old days where you could discover precisely which horse tranquilizer Ben Johnson was using on a given day.

Yes, things were much simpler back when non-Americans were getting caught.

Seriously, what's the difference?

AlexB · 07-31-2006, 04:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yes, things were much simpler back when non-Americans were getting caught.

Seriously, what's the difference?

This is what I got as being the general complaint of the thread as well

BishopMVP · 07-31-2006, 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Yes, things were much simpler back when non-Americans were getting caught.

Seriously, what's the difference?

Before, you could test for specific substances that were not naturally produced by the human body. Now that "exercise science"/doping has gotten so much more advanced, it's all based on probabilities. There's really no alternative, but it increases the potential for false positives.

Agreed that these guys are idiots if the B samples confirm and they are suspended.

07-30-2006, 10:33 PM	#3
SirFozzie Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: The State of Insanity	Testosterone isn't. Illegal ratios of testosterone and epitestosterone is. (basically, if it's produced naturally, there should be a certain ratio of the two.. if due to doping, there is extra testosterone, and no extra epitestosterone __________________ Check out Foz's New Video Game Site, An 8-bit Mind in an 8GB world! http://an8bitmind.com

07-30-2006, 11:22 PM	#6
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I just find it odd you can go to GNC or any other vitamin store and buy a testosterone product over the counter...and these guys (didn't know that this was the case with Landis as well) are getting hit for it. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-30-2006, 11:29 PM	#7
ISiddiqui Hall Of Famer Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Decatur, GA	It doesn't matter if its legal or illegal, if it is against the rules, it is against the rules. __________________ "A prayer for the wild at heart, kept in cages" -Tennessee Williams

07-30-2006, 11:40 PM	#8
Poli FOFC Survivor Join Date: Apr 2002 Location: Wentzville, MO	I suppose that's true. I'm sure the athlete's know that high levels of T can get them busted. I guess what I'm getting at is that it sucks that stuff you can buy through normal means can get you busted. __________________ Cheer for a walk on quarterback! Ardent leads the Vols in the dynasty forum.

07-31-2006, 02:55 AM	#10
Karlifornia Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: San Jose, CA	I was drunk during the watermelon seed spitting contest, and they busted me. Don't worry about me, boys....I spit some seeds in the testers general direction--I think they got the point. __________________ Look into the mind of a crazy man (NSFW) http://www.whitepowerupdate.wordpress.com

07-30-2006, 10:27 PM	#2
Greyroofoo Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Alabama	Me thinks there's a feminist joke somewhere to be found.

07-30-2006, 10:36 PM	#4
nilodor College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: calgary, AB	Having extremely high levels of testosterone is considered a sign of cheating. Testosterone I think has similar effects to HGH and can also be a marker for other performance enhancers. They test the level against something that starts with an E, I can't remember it now. In most people the ratio is 1:1, the level used to be 6:1 testosterone to the other one, now I think it is 3:1, which is still 3 or 4 standard deviations above the norm. It is the same thing Floyd Landis is running into. Some people have very high natural occuring testosterone levels, so they will check the B sample for, I think, genetic indicators.

07-30-2006, 10:39 PM	#5
rowech Pro Starter Join Date: Feb 2006	This guy's coach says someone "sabatoged" him. Meanwhile his coach is connected to Marion Jones and Montgomery. These athletes are getting out of control. They took the drugs. You can't tell me these guys aren't monitoring things going into their bodies...either themselves or the coaches/trainers. Either way, it's the athlete's responsibility.

07-31-2006, 08:05 AM	#16
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	Looks like Gatlin may want to reconsider that move to football that he turned down.

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