Trade fair value

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 01:28 PM

We have a guy really wanting to trade out of the #1 pick in a fantasy draft. 10 teams.

Is there a tool or any thought to what a fair deal would be. Let's say two ways. Trading up from the 3 hole or someone trading up from 7-10.

gottimd · 08-24-2006, 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

We have a guy really wanting to trade out of the #1 pick in a fantasy draft. 10 teams.

Is there a tool or any thought to what a fair deal would be. Let's say two ways. Trading up from the 3 hole or someone trading up from 7-10.

What about using the "Draft Value Chart" that assigns points to each draft pick position?

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 01:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by gottimd

What about using the "Draft Value Chart" that assigns points to each draft pick position?

Is that applicable to both fantasy and only 10 interests?

The latest general offer was swap entire draft positions and also the trading team would send 5 and 10 to the trading out owner after while getting back his 6 and 10.

Celeval · 08-24-2006, 01:43 PM

1 - 3 is pretty even, and if I was #1, I'd take #3s first and secound rounder for my first and second. 7-10... that's a huge difference.

Noble_Platypus · 08-24-2006, 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Celeval

1 - 3 is pretty even, and if I was #1, I'd take #3s first and secound rounder for my first and second. 7-10... that's a huge difference.

So you would give the first pick in the first 2 rounds for the third pick in the first 2 rounds?AM I understanding this correctly? It sounds lie you arent doing anything but moving down 2 spots in the first 2 rounds with nothing in return

Maple Leafs · 08-24-2006, 01:49 PM

http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm

Passacaglia · 08-24-2006, 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

So you would give the first pick in the first 2 rounds for the third pick in the first 2 rounds?AM I understanding this correctly? It sounds lie you arent doing anything but moving down 2 spots in the first 2 rounds with nothing in return

I think it's assumed to be a snake draft.

Passacaglia · 08-24-2006, 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm

Interesting tool. I tried all the combinations in a 12-team draft: 1-24, 2-23, 3-22, etc. and 1-24 was the best. Don't know if I agree with that.

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think it's assumed to be a snake draft.

correct

QuikSand · 08-24-2006, 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Interesting tool. I tried all the combinations in a 12-team draft: 1-24, 2-23, 3-22, etc. and 1-24 was the best. Don't know if I agree with that.

There's pretty simple logic behind it, though.

Pretty much any draft valuation system woudl have the incremental drop in value from pick to pick decline as you get later in the draft. Anyone could see that the difference between 1(1) and 1(2) is bigger than the difference between 7(31) and 7(32) in the NFL draft -- incremental valuation ought to be a continuum between those two extremes -- there's no specific point in a generic draft that would call for anything but a gradiated dropoff from top to bottom.

So, generically speaking, the drop in value from 1.1 to fantasy pick 1.2 must be greater than the gain by moving up from 2.12 to 2.11 -- it's just an extension of the same logic. Therefore, the value of the paired picks will always be greatest for the team picking first, and lowest for the team picking last.

Real drafts are not generic, but draft value systems have to be. And the only way to be sensible about it is to have the increments decline as you go down.

Noble_Platypus · 08-24-2006, 02:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

I think it's assumed to be a snake draft.

Ahhhh. I am used to dynasty league drafts where after the first draft is a regular worst to first every round. My bad.

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 02:04 PM

I guess I can ask this another way given the structure in most drafts this year.

It's a given that tomlinson, johnson and alexander go 1,2,3. If you sit outside the top 3 do you move up here and give up your whole 5th round and have 3 picks(6.8, 6.10 and 7.1) right in a row (last pick was 4.10) based on the offer I described.

QuikSand · 08-24-2006, 02:04 PM

I think the fairest way to do a random draft for a fantasy league is to order the picks as follows:

1-12
12-1
12-1
12-1
etc.

QuikSand · 08-24-2006, 02:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I guess I can ask this another way given the structure in most drafts this year.

It's a given that tomlinson, johnson and alexander go 1,2,3. If you sit outside the top 3 do you move up here and give up your whole 5th round and have 3 picks(6.8, 6.10 and 7.1) right in a row (last pick was 4.10) based on the offer I described.

I'm not sure the specifics of your question, but if you can move from #5 to #2 or #3 and the only thing that gets messed up is the 4th and 6th round crap, I would take that deal.

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I'm not sure the specifics of your question, but if you can move from #5 to #2 or #3 and the only thing that gets messed up is the 4th and 6th round crap, I would take that deal.

post 3 was the offer

QuikSand · 08-24-2006, 02:12 PM

So, to move up to #3, you have to slide down two rounds from the 4th to the 6th? Deal.

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 02:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

So, to move up to #3, you have to slide down two rounds from the 4th to the 6th? Deal.

No, guy with #1 wants to swap his entire draft with someone in exchange for then swapping his 6 and 11 for your 5 and 10.

Celeval · 08-24-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Noble_Platypus

So you would give the first pick in the first 2 rounds for the third pick in the first 2 rounds?AM I understanding this correctly? It sounds lie you arent doing anything but moving down 2 spots in the first 2 rounds with nothing in return

Yeah, snake draft - and per QS's point, it's this year which makes it worthwhile. Johnson - Tomlinson - Alexander are essentially even at 1-2-3. If I'm at #1, I'll gladly take whichever of those guys are left at #3 to move up two spots in the second round (which in my Yahoo drafts has been the difference between Antonio Gates and Anquan Boldin (er... maybe a bad example, Gates was a stretch imho) or Marvin Harrison and Julius Jones.

Ksyrup · 08-24-2006, 02:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

We have a guy really wanting to trade out of the #1 pick in a fantasy draft. 10 teams.

Is there a tool or any thought to what a fair deal would be. Let's say two ways. Trading up from the 3 hole or someone trading up from 7-10.

Is this a clever misdirection like the pee stain thread?

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 02:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Is this a clever misdirection like the pee stain thread?

Oh, there's Fred...won't he be surprised.

QuikSand · 08-24-2006, 02:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

No, guy with #1 wants to swap his entire draft with someone in exchange for then swapping his 6 and 11 for your 5 and 10.

With nothing but bullshit like that on the bottom half of the trade (even less than I had understood it to be), I like this for the team moving up in round one and getting into the top three, period.

rkmsuf · 08-24-2006, 02:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

With nothing but bullshit like that on the bottom half of the trade (even less than I had understood it to be), I like this for the team moving up in round one and getting into the top three, period.

I have #3 which is ideal and have no intention of moving up. So far this offer has drawn zero interest elsewhere which is amazing me.

thesloppy · 08-24-2006, 03:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Oh, there's Fred...won't he be surprised.

I use chewing gum on these rides. It filters out the pollutants.

wishbone · 08-24-2006, 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm

That guy says to trade the #1 for the #23 and #25. I'm not really into fantasy football, but that does not seem like a good trade to me.

QuikSand · 08-24-2006, 03:34 PM

In a standard league, with a random draft assignment, and a bunch of nitwit players -- you have to undertand that the psychological element is far greater than the practical.

A guy will sit there right when his number is pulled and wail that "oh noes, #10 is the worst possible place in this draft!" And then, when you offer to switch your entire draft from #5 with him, straight up... he says no, he'll stay at #10. And he's being honest both times.

If you make a deal, and things don't work out, it reflects badly on you. If it's bad luck and it doesn't work out, it's nobody's fault. That's safer.

Have fun.

Maple Leafs · 08-24-2006, 06:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wishbone

That guy says to trade the #1 for the #23 and #25. I'm not really into fantasy football, but that does not seem like a good trade to me.

Neither would I, actually.

Weird... I thought the tool was based on the NFL draft chart. I wonder if it's broken.

08-24-2006, 01:49 PM	#6
Maple Leafs Coordinator Join Date: Jan 2002	http://www.footballguys.com/pickvalue.htm __________________ Down Goes Brown: Toronto Maple Leafs Humor and Analysis

08-24-2006, 02:04 PM	#12
rkmsuf Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2001	I guess I can ask this another way given the structure in most drafts this year. It's a given that tomlinson, johnson and alexander go 1,2,3. If you sit outside the top 3 do you move up here and give up your whole 5th round and have 3 picks(6.8, 6.10 and 7.1) right in a row (last pick was 4.10) based on the offer I described. __________________ "Don't you have homes?" -- Judge Smales

08-24-2006, 01:43 PM	#4
Celeval Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: Cary, NC, USA	1 - 3 is pretty even, and if I was #1, I'd take #3s first and secound rounder for my first and second. 7-10... that's a huge difference.

08-24-2006, 02:04 PM	#13
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I think the fairest way to do a random draft for a fantasy league is to order the picks as follows: 1-12 12-1 12-1 12-1 etc.

08-24-2006, 02:12 PM	#16
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	So, to move up to #3, you have to slide down two rounds from the 4th to the 6th? Deal.

08-24-2006, 03:34 PM	#25
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	In a standard league, with a random draft assignment, and a bunch of nitwit players -- you have to undertand that the psychological element is far greater than the practical. A guy will sit there right when his number is pulled and wail that "oh noes, #10 is the worst possible place in this draft!" And then, when you offer to switch your entire draft from #5 with him, straight up... he says no, he'll stay at #10. And he's being honest both times. If you make a deal, and things don't work out, it reflects badly on you. If it's bad luck and it doesn't work out, it's nobody's fault. That's safer. Have fun.

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