Ping: Computer experts

[Maple Leafs]

The wife and I are looking for a new computer. We don't really do much that would push the limits of a system, although Mrs. Leafs would like be able to play games like Oblivion. I'm not looking to spend a ton if I can avoid it, and I don't mind going with a refurbished system.

Does anybody see any major red flags with either of the systems below? Are they a decent value and performance level for a mid-range system?

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...sku=G153-819GM

http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...u=G153-GX7018E

Thanks...

[vtbub]

The second one looks the better deal, but depending on the game, onboard graphics sharing RAM with the regular sucks performance out.

[Draft Dodger]

your red flag: "Plus, this gorgeous Gateway boasts Intel's incredible Graphics Media Accelerator 900 and sensational sound courtesy of Intel High Definition audio."

integrated graphics used to be an automatic no for anything other than a low end system. they've gotten better, but you'll probably still want to (maybe have to) upgrade to run something like Oblivion. The good news: both have PCIx slots, so that you can put in a real graphics card. just off the top of my head, I'm guessing something in the $130-$150 range would get you a pretty good card.

and your wife plays Oblivion? hawt.

[MizzouRah]

Yeah, they are Gateway pc's - major red flag.

If you don't have the know-how to build your own, I suggest a Dell or Compaq. It's just my opinion though and definitly musts in my book are - at least 1G of memory, dual core processor would be nice, PCIe graphics card. On board graphics are usually terrible for games and well, YMMV.

Just make sure you get at least a 1 year warranty. I will say, most of the time you get what you pay for and spending a tad more will get you many more miles from your pc.

[Gallifrey]

I suggest stay away from integrated graphics as well. I always buy the pieces and build my own, and I stay away from onboard graphics, sound etc.

[Easy Mac]

I'll chime in with onboard sound not being as bad as it used to be. Both of my computers have built in sound and they do 7.1 surround without optical in and out.

[cartman]

Yep, I'm with Easy Mac. On-board sound isn't bad at all. But as for the integrated graphics, stay far, far away. You definitely need a dedicated graphics card.

[Brillig]

Not that great a deal, and the onboard video is a major alarm. No matter what, you'd need another video card... 5 minutes of playing with the Dell configurator produced this XPS at $834. The 7300 is a fairly bargain basement card, but still adequate for most things. Components
PROCESSOR	Intel ® Core™2 Duo Processor E6400 (2.13GHz, 1066 FSB)	edit
OPERATING SYSTEM	Genuine Windows® XP Media Center 2005 Edition with re-installation CD	edit
MEMORY	1GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs	edit
HARD DRIVE	250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™	edit
OPTICAL DRIVE	Single Drive: 16X CD/DVD burner (DVD+/-RW) w/double layer write capability	edit
MONITORS	Video Ready w/o Monitor	edit
VIDEO CARD	256MB nVidia Geforce 7300LE TurboCache	edit
SOUND CARD	Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio	edit
Accessories
SPEAKERS	No speakers (Speakers are required to hear audio from your system)	edit
KEYBOARD	Dell USB Keyboard	edit
MOUSE	Dell Optical USB Mouse	edit
FLOPPY & MEDIA READER	No Floppy Drive Included	edit
MODEM	No Modem Requested	edit
Software
PRODUCTIVITY	No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD	edit
ANTI-VIRUS & SECURITY	PC-cillin Internet Security with AntiVirus and Spyware removal 15-months	edit

[Maple Leafs]

Thanks for the feedback... so it sounds like I'm looking at a decent graphics card in addition to whatever I get. That sounds fine.

Here's one the wife was looking at. Thoughts?
http://www.tigerdirect.ca/applicatio...SYXS-DB-989150

(By the way, keep in mind these prices are in Canadian dollars so will be somewhat higher than they'd be in USD.)

[Gallifrey]

Just the graphics being onboard. Tiger Direct has always had some good deals though.

[Maple Leafs]

So just to be clear, is it as simple as finding and buying a computer with onboard graphics, and then separately buying a graphics cards? Are is it pretty much a case of pop open the hood and plug-and-play?

[FrogMan]

ML, I'm currently shopping for a PC myself, and being also located in Canada, maybe I can help. Computer prices are indeed higher in Canada, and not only because of currency exchange. Prices from tigerdirect.com don't always equal 1.15 times the prices on tigerdirect.ca, sadly...

As an example of price difference here's I costed this XPS from Dell.ca, it compares to Brillig's config

Components
PROCESSOR	Intel® Core™2 Duo processor E6400 (2.13GHz)	edit
OPERATING SYSTEM	Genuine Windows® XP Home Edition with re-installation CD	edit
MEMORY	FREE UPGRADE to 2GB Dual Channel DDR2 SDRAM at 667MHz - 2 DIMMs	edit
HARD DRIVE	250GB Serial ATA 3Gb/s Hard Drive (7200RPM) w/DataBurst Cache™	edit
MONITOR	No Monitor	edit
GRAPHICS CARD	512MB nVidia GeForce 7900 GTX	edit
OPTICAL DRIVE	Dual Drives: 16x DVD-ROM Drive + 16x DVD+/-RW w/ dbl layer write capable	edit
SOUND CARD	Integrated 7.1 Channel Audio	edit
Accessories
FLOPPY DRIVE & MEDIA READER	No Floppy Drive Included	edit
KEYBOARD	Dell USB Enhanced Multimedia Keyboard	edit
SPEAKERS	Dell A525 30 Watt 2.1 Stereo Speakers with Subwoofer	edit
Software
PRODUCTIVITY SOFTWARE	No productivity suite- Includes Microsoft Works 8. DOES NOT INCLUDE MS WORD	edit

The price in Canada? $2,519

I'm not as adverse as some other to Gateway, maybe I'm a fool for thinking so, and building my own computer is out of the question. I've seen about as many negative comments in here about Compaqs as about Dells, but I've had a Compaq desktop PC for three years now and it's been working like a charm from the get go. After my recommendations, I know of three persons who bougth Compaq/HP bundled systems and they have had zero problems with theirs.

Not sure if you need a monitor or not, but Futureshop often has some very decent deals. I'm looking at this one bundle that I find very nice:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...91&catid=24014

WebID:	10079628
Mfr. Part Number:	GT5232E
Processor Type	AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Dual Core
Processor Speed	2.2GHz
RAM	2048MB DDR2 PC4200 (Exp. To 4GB)
Hard Drive	200GB SATA II (7200 RPM, 8MB Cache)
Optical Drives	16X DVD +/- Multi-Format Double Layer
Graphics Card	NVIDIA GeForce 7300LE 64MB
Available Expansion Bays	2 x 3.5", 1 x 5.25"
Available Expansion Slots	1 x PCI-E x1, 1 x PCI
Cache	2 x 512KB L2
Disk Drive	No
Fax/Modem	56K ITU V.92
I/O Ports	See The Features Section
Included Software	See The Features Section
Monitor Included?	No
Network Card	10/100 Mbps Ethernet LAN (RJ-45 port)
Other Control Devices	Multimedia Keyboard, USB Optical Mouse
Preloaded Operating System	Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005
Sound Card	8-Channel (7.1) High Definition Audio
Speakers	Amplified Stereo, USB Powered
System Bus	2000MHz
Warranty	1 Year Parts & Labor

I'm no expert, and maybe the real experts will come in and trash it as complete and utter crap, but I find it to be an interesting setup. 2GB RAM, AMD X2 4200+, 19" widescreen monitor, not so bad graphics (although it's probably basically only a tiny bit better than the onboard intel one).

Anyway, if anybody's got an opinion on that system, They are selling it at $999 cdn this week...

FM

edit, that spec is for the computer only. The $999 bundle includes this monitor:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...gon=&langid=EN

[Zippo]

yeah futurehsop's got cheap monitors, I got this one the other day: http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...0072506&catid=

[Maple Leafs]

OK, trying this again...

How about:
http://www.futureshop.ca/catalog/pro...0078035&catid=

- 2GB DDR
- Dual Core 920 2.8GHz
- A (presumably crappy) graphics card
- Not a gateway

Good? Bad? 2.8 GHz not enough?

[FrogMan]

that'd be my kind of computer yeah. You did notice it's a refurbished though, right? I don't have much problem with that fact myself, simply pointing it out in case you had not seen it...

I like that little mention too:

	FREE Acer 20" LCD Monitor included instantly with this HP Media Center Desktop!

That's not a bad plus

FM

[Maple Leafs]

Yeah, the monitor is a nice bonus.

Refurbished doesn't really bother me unless someone smarter than me can think of a reason it should.

[MizzouRah]

Refurbished pc's are fine, I have had one for 3+ years now with (knock on wood), no issues.

[Maple Leafs]

So is 2.8 really enough?

[FrogMan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

So is 2.8 really enough?

to me, it would be plenty. futureshop also has an AMD X2 4200+ for the exact same price (and same monitor) that would maybe tempt me a bit more, but my analysis is based off some benchmarks from amd.com, so maybe they are biased

FM

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by FrogMan

to me, it would be plenty. futureshop also has an AMD X2 4200+ for the exact same price (and same monitor) that would maybe tempt me a bit more, but my analysis is based off some benchmarks from amd.com, so maybe they are biased

Nice find.

The one above lists a graphics cards: nVidia FX6200SE 256MB Graphics. Is that shared? Is it any good? I checked a few game sys reqs and they all listed Geforce, not FXxxxx... same thing? Even worth having?

[FrogMan]

maple leafs, in their flyer that starts tomorrow, staples has a pretty sweet deal on an AMD X2 4200+ machine. Anyway, on the flyer I see with my postal code, it's on page 4, top left corner,
http://staples.flyerservices.com/non...=&T=22&S=&CC=0

some specs:

• Features:
• 2.0GHz AMD Athlon 64 X2 4000+
• 2.0GB PC2-4200 DDR2 SDRAM, expandable to 4GB
• 250GB 7200RPM SATA Hard Drive
• 16X DVD(+/-)R/RW (+/-)R DL LightScribe Drive
• Integrated 10/100 Base-T networking interface
• 56K bps data/fax modem
• Integrated video graphics
• Integrated High Definition audio, Realtek ALC 883 or ALC 888chipset; Supports up to 8 audio channels; Dolby Pro Logic II compatible
• 9-in-1 Media Card Reader
• Available Ports: 2 FireWire (IEEE 1394); 7 USB 2.0; 2 PS/2; 1 VGA; 1 LAN; 1 SPDIF out (coaxial); Audio (side speaker out, rear speaker out, center speaker out, line-in, line-out, microphone); Heaphone, line-in, microphone
• Available PCI-Express x16 slot
• Includes HP multimedia keyboard and PS/2 scroller mouse
• Microsoft Windows XP Media Center Edition 2005 with Update Rollup 2 and Service Pack 2, English
• Software Included: CyberLink DVD Play; Sonic DigitalMedia Plus 7.04; Sonic MyDVD Plus 6.2; Roxio DigitalMedia Archive 2; HP Photosmart Premier 6.5; Muvee autoProducer 5; Muvee autoProducer unPlugged 2; Microsoft Works 8.0; Microsoft Office 2003 Student Teacher Edition (60-day Trial Version); Norton Internet Security 2006 (60-day security update subscription); and more!

This is bundled with a 17" LCD monitor and an HP printer and comes to a total of $749.95 after a $50us mail-in rebate.

Sure, it's not as big a monitor as the other one, and might have a printer you don't need, but it's a full $200 below.

Also, here's a link to that benchmark from AMD about their X2 line compare to the Intel D line. Check page 2:
http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/cont...mp_Q2-2006.pdf

FM

[Maple Leafs]

That's a pretty good system. But I think I like the Future Shop one better... that monitor is pretty nice, and having the graphics card is a nice touch. I think I'm going to go with that one.

And yes, this is a shameless bump to see if anyone wants to talk me out of it.

[MizzouRah]

I like the futureshop one as well. Seems nice and powerful.

[FrogMan]

Well, I should pick one of these puppies (one of the Staples one) up tonight. I called the local Staples store this morning around 10 and after asking if they would check their inventory level for a computer on their flyer that starts today, the dude told me, laughing, that they sure had it on stock without me giving him the model. Once I told him "HP a1540n" he went all "huhoh, we sold all we had this morning". Darn idiot...

Called another Staples and they had only a couple on hand and I was able to get them to reserve one for me even though the guy said they usually never do that. Hopefully no other idiot will take my name off from it in the stock room and will sell it to someone else...

I'll also see if it's possible to pay the difference to get the 17" LCD monitor upgraded to 19", hoping the instant rebate is not related to the monitor itself. We'll see what they say. If not, no big deal, I can live with 17".

I think $750cdn is a pretty sweet deal for an AMD X2 4200+ with 2GB RAM, a 250GB hard drive, and an LCD monitor, no matter what kind of onboard graphic card it has (fwiw, it's a GeForce 6150). I could add a new one at a later date.

Quite honestly though, I could have gone with either one of these, but I'm a cheapskate, so I'll save the bucks even though I might lose a tiny bit on some feature. Both system have very comparable specs, as far as performance should go, but saving the bucks will allow me to get an APC for when power gets flaky during thunderstorms (I frigging hate losing power in the middle of a game of FM) and a wireless keyboard/mouse.

This will also make my son happy, as my current Athlon 2000+ (1.67ghz) w/1 GB ram and tiny 80GB HD will end up in his room.

Next shopping matter: wireless router

FM

[MizzouRah]

Both are actually nice.

[FrogMan]

well, I got mine.

Was a pretty good thing I got it reserved, there are none left in all the 6 or 7 Staples (or Bureau en Gros as we call them around here) in the big Quebec City area. Just as I walked in the store where I got it, a guy walked in right before me, asked a clerk if he had any left. Clerk went out back, came back saying there were none. I got worried they had sold mine but no, it was still there.

Was able to upgrade the monitor to 19" for an extra $50cdn so the whole bundle will come to $800cdn once the mail in rebate taken off.

Got a wireless Microsoft keyboard and mouse combo (that was also on sale, $40 instead of $70) and an APC battery backup ($80). All in all, a pretty good deal for about $920cdn. I'm happy

Good luck with your buy Maple Leafs.

FM

[FrogMan]

dola, that guy who walked in right before me said he had ordered a Dell from Dell.ca right this afternoon. Got home to see the flyer and will cancel his order with Dell since he left with their demo.

FM