EA warns of spyware in their games......

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Just when you think EA can't get worse, they decide to start doing this.......

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=13049860

So. In the latest CGW podcast, they received retail boxed copies of BF 2142.

When you open the box, a big slip of paper falls out first, preceeding any discs or manuals. The slip of paper says, essentially, that 2142 includes monitoring software which runs while your computer is online, and records "anonymous" information like your IP address, surfing habits (probably via cookie scans), and other "computing habits" in order to report this information back to ad companies and ad servers, which generates in-game ads.

Now, I can live with certain in-game ads (though apparently there will be Dodge truck and Neon ads in the bleak, futuristic world of 2142), but including a lengthy description - outside of even the Eula - seems to indicate even EA knows that this is some shady borderline spyware shit. I don't support it and won't be buying 2142 (for a host of other reasons, too).

Ummmm, hello? So now I'm going to have EA servers constantly monitoring my web surfing and other habits in order to put advertisements in my games? How desparate are these guys for money? Worse yet, the warning is inside the box, so once you get the chance to read it, you've already broken the seal on the box and can't return it if you don't like the policy. How convienent.

[Maple Leafs]

Is there a simple way to turn this "feature" off?

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Is there a simple way to turn this "feature" off?

No, that's the whole point of the warning. It specifically states that once you break the seal on the software, you are agreeing to the specific clause. It's basically part of the EULA agreement in this specific situation.

If EA decided to plaster 'Diet Coke' or 'Valvoline' advertisements all over the game without infringing on what was going on regarding my web browsing habits, I wouldn't have a problem with it. What they are doing in this case is no different than the adware that infects computers. They're harvesting data off your computer and using it to their advantage. Not only that, but you're paying them to do it by buying their software.

[QuikSand]

We need Antmeister on this. It begs for a parody song.

I'm thinking Randy Newman..."We Love It!"... work with me.

[hhiipp]

Yeah there is, don't play it.

[Bee]

I wonder if there are pr0n advertisers, because otherwise I don't know what they'll find in my surfing habits to decide what ads to show.

[MJ4H]

I haven't for a long time because of the consistently poor quality of the game play, but this seals that I will definitely never buy another EA Sports game.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Is there a simple way to turn this "feature" off?

sure.
step 1) don't buy it.

hope that helps.

[wade moore]

Aight, so.. I'm an avid player of Battlefield 2. So, on the server I play the message board is just lit up with people complaining about this.

From the details I've read, this is really much ado about nothing.

What they are tracking is your viewing habits while PLAYING THE GAME. It is not tracking your everyday web habits, but it is tracking the viewing of ads within the game.

Personally, I see no problem with this.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

From the details I've read, this is really much ado about nothing.

What they are tracking is your viewing habits while PLAYING THE GAME. It is not tracking your everyday web habits, but it is tracking the viewing of ads within the game.

No, it specifically checks the cookies on your system and 'computing habits' (which is code for a vague phrase that allows them a lot of leeway). If you think that the server only connects when you are playing the game, you are fooling yourself in an immense way. It's one thing if you don't mind it, but it's another thing if you deny what is listed in the EULA.

[mrsimperless]

Originally Posted by Bee

I wonder if there are pr0n advertisers, because otherwise I don't know what they'll find in my surfing habits to decide what ads to show.

Word.

So have you never had wet dream either? Dammit, we need a poll for this kind of stuff.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

No, it specifically checks the cookies on your system and 'computing habits' (which is code for a vague phrase that allows them a lot of leeway). If you think that the server only connects when you are playing the game, you are fooling yourself in an immense way. It's one thing if you don't mind it, but it's another thing if you deny what is listed in the EULA.

From the disclaimer:

"The Software may incorporate technology developed by IGA Worldwide Inc. ("IGA") (the "Advertising Technology"). The purpose of the Advertising TEchnology is to deliver in-game advertisements to you when you use the Software while connected to the Internet. When you use the Software while connected ot the Internet, the Advertising Technlogy may record your IP address and other anonymouse information ("Advertising Data"). The Advertising Data is temporarily used by IGA to enable the presentation and measurement of in-game advertisements and other in-game objects which are uploaded temporarily to your personal computer or game console and changed during online game play. The Advertising Technology does not collect any personally identifiable information about you, and EA will ont provide IGA with any of your personally identifiable information. The servers used by the Advertising Technology may, from time to time, be located outside your country of residence. If you are located within the European Union, the servers may be located outside the EU.

By installing and using the Software, you agree to: (i) the transfer of the Advertising Data to servers located outside your country of residence and, if applicable, outside the European Union; (ii)the collection and use of the Advertising Data as described in this Section; and (iii) the delivery of advertising and marketing content by the Advertising Technology. IF YOU DO NOT WANT IGA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, OR TRANSMIT THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, DO NOT INSTALL OR PLAY THE SOFTWARE ON ANY PLATFORM THAT IS USED TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET."

Granted, as you can tell, this is a copy of the one from Europe, but my understanding is the US one is the same.

There's nothing I see in this that gives me heartburn personally.

[stevew]

Those motorized walkers in BF2142 are basically unfair anyways. So I wasn't planning on buying it anyways.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

Those motorized walkers in BF2142 are basically unfair anyways. So I wasn't planning on buying it anyways.

I don't know if I'll buy it yet. I really don't get into the futuristic theme, even if it is somewhat "realistic future". But if all of the people I play BF2 with dissapear and go play BF2142 I may follow like a sheep.

Do you play BF2? Where do you play?

[stevew]

Nah, I don't play BF2. I was trying out the new one though, and I'm just so horribly bad at it that it basically isn't fun for me. And those walkers, it's like you hit them with a million rounds and then they just turn around and pwn you.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

There's nothing I see in this that gives me heartburn personally.

There's two things that should give you quite a bit of heartburn just in what you put up from the Europe EULA......

The servers used by the Advertising Technology may, from time to time, be located outside your country of residence. If you are located within the European Union, the servers may be located outside the EU.

By installing and using the Software, you agree to: (i) the transfer of the Advertising Data to servers located outside your country of residence and, if applicable, outside the European Union; (ii)the collection and use of the Advertising Data as described in this Section; and (iii) the delivery of advertising and marketing content by the Advertising Technology. IF YOU DO NOT WANT IGA TO COLLECT, USE, STORE, OR TRANSMIT THE DATA DESCRIBED IN THIS SECTION, DO NOT INSTALL OR PLAY THE SOFTWARE ON ANY PLATFORM THAT IS USED TO CONNECT TO THE INTERNET."

1. Servers outside the specific country are never a good thing from a privacy standpoint. They don't isolate where the servers are located, hence, you don't know how specific laws/standards are applied in the location where the servers are based. Very dicey situation.

2. Their option for avoiding the invasion of privacy is to not install the software on a computer with an internet connection. Well, thank God they gave you that option. That should make it really easy on the customer.

FWIW......the game has not been getting good reviews and the invasion of privacy situation has brought a lot of negative press to EA and the game, so I'm not terribly concerned that they'll do anything quite this stupid in the future. However, this is EA. Anything is possible.........

[wade moore]

Meh... so what if some advertising company knows I refresh FOFC 5,000,000 times a day? I just don't get upset over this personally.

I know some people do, but I don't. That being said, I still interpret this to mean that it is not tracking your outside of game habits, but your in-game habits.

[Samdari]

It should not be that difficult to fool the game into thinking that you are not connected to the internet by blocking the port it is on.

Still, I won't be buying any EA games until they cease this practice.

[Maple Leafs]

The odd thing is that many people react to any advertising by saying "I don't care about any of that, I don't want to see that stuff unless it's something I'm interested in!" But when companies try to serve up ads based on what little they may know about you, we get upset and cry "privacy!"

Which isn't to say it's not a valid complaint, since there are some privacy implications here. That's why EA should have a simple way to turn this off, permanently. If they didn't built that in then they're not playing fair. Not to mention whether it's really appropriate to put ads in a full price game to begin with.

But I do find that people's reactions to advertising does run in circles sometimes.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

Just when you think EA can't get worse, they decide to start doing this.......

http://www.shacknews.com/ja.zz?id=13049860



Ummmm, hello? So now I'm going to have EA servers constantly monitoring my web surfing and other habits in order to put advertisements in my games? How desparate are these guys for money? Worse yet, the warning is inside the box, so once you get the chance to read it, you've already broken the seal on the box and can't return it if you don't like the policy. How convienent.

EA ate your baby?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

EA ate your baby?

Guy has a serious hard on for EA.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Guy has a serious hard on for EA.

yup.

[Bee]

Well, there are a lot of people who are pretty upset about this on other forums. I'm like wade, it doesn't bother me but I can see where it would bother some people.

BTW, what about those who have a wife that surfs shoe stores online...will they be getting a bunch of shoe ads? That would suck.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Bee

Well, there are a lot of people who are pretty upset about this on other forums. I'm like wade, it doesn't bother me but I can see where it would bother some people.

BTW, what about those who have a wife that surfs shoe stores online...will they be getting a bunch of shoe ads? That would suck.

Yeah, like I was saying, I first heard about this on a Battlefield forum.

Mizzou B-Ball just seems to hunt for anything to trash EA, seems to be a bit "overdoing" it if you know what i'm sayin... *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by Bee

Well, there are a lot of people who are pretty upset about this on other forums. I'm like wade, it doesn't bother me but I can see where it would bother some people.

BTW, what about those who have a wife that surfs shoe stores online...will they be getting a bunch of shoe ads? That would suck.

What bothers me about this whole thing is that EA is going to be able to charge companies to target ads to my specific browsing habits. It's not so much the privacy aspects, but the greed factor. Yes, they get paid by advertisers when they plaster their logos in the virtual hockey rink in my NHL video game. I accept that. But to generate a constant revenue stream from this, for each year I play this game, just doesn't sit right with me. If they knock $20 off the game, or even send me a check for $1.00 for each 10 different advertisers they get because of my data, then I'd be cool with it.

Or an option to turn this off.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Yeah, like I was saying, I first heard about this on a Battlefield forum.

Mizzou B-Ball just seems to hunt for anything to trash EA, seems to be a bit "overdoing" it if you know what i'm sayin... *wink wink* *nudge nudge*

I would do the exact same thing if another company was implementing this kind or practice. EA has gone out of its way to allow plenty of ammunition for these kinds of threads lately. It's not a good sign.

I was just as vocal about the software that was installed on computers by Sony and Starforce without the knowledge of the user. Honestly, if it weren't for the outrage about those two situations, EA probably wouldn't have even bothered to disclose this much about the software and what they were doing regarding the advertising. EA and other gaming companies will play dumb as long as you'll let them do so.

[AgustusM]

I don't even know what this game is so this doesn't affect me at all, but the fact of the matter is that software that makes calls outside your computer that you are not allowed to turn off is spyware plain and simple.

If it is in there and there is an option to turn it off, fine but if you can't turn it off it has no business being in there. Remember the Steve Gibson motto "don't mess with MY machine"

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

sure.
step 1) don't buy it.

hope that helps.

I think this is all that is needed in this thread.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

I don't even know what this game is so this doesn't affect me at all, but the fact of the matter is that software that makes calls outside your computer that you are not allowed to turn off is spyware plain and simple.

If it is in there and there is an option to turn it off, fine but if you can't turn it off it has no business being in there. Remember the Steve Gibson motto "don't mess with MY machine"

It's an online game.

You're making calls outside your computer by connecting online.

They're merely gathering data on what you're doing when you're online in their game.

Whatever. People just get all riled up over nothing.

Again I say - do you get upset that ESPN.com analyzes what ads you click on on their page? This is NO different.

[Maple Leafs]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Again I say - do you get upset that ESPN.com analyzes what ads you click on on their page? This is NO different.

Actually, lots of people really do get upset about that. Usually the same folks who surf with all their cookies turned off even though they're not sure why.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Maple Leafs

Actually, lots of people really do get upset about that. Usually the same folks who surf with all their cookies turned off even though they're not sure why.

I just live in a different world than these people.

[sachmo71]

Originally Posted by wade moore

It's an online game.

You're making calls outside your computer by connecting online.

They're merely gathering data on what you're doing when you're online in their game.

Whatever. People just get all riled up over nothing.

Again I say - do you get upset that ESPN.com analyzes what ads you click on on their page? This is NO different.

There is a vast difference between active and passive data collection. ESPN recording clicks is passive. Reading your cookies to learn your browsing habits is active.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by wade moore

They're merely gathering data on what you're doing when you're online in their game.

Just for the record, I don't read the EULA quite the same way. I read it that it records the data to their servers while you're online in the game and uses that data to generate ads. My guess is the data it's gathering is not limited to when you're online in their game.

[Subby]

Privacy is a slippery slope.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by Bee

Just for the record, I don't read the EULA quite the same way. I read it that it records the data to their servers while you're online in the game and uses that data to generate ads. My guess is the data it's gathering is not limited to when you're online in their game.

Absolutely. Wade's thought that it only collects info about your gaming in the specific game makes no sense. If that were the case, you would only receive ads in the game promoting BF 2142 or guns or advanced warfare. There are ads in the game that are unrelated to the game itself. EA is checking the cookies when the game is played on a internet-connected computer. But the assumption that they are only collecting game-specific information is simply naive.

[Samdari]

Originally Posted by wade moore

They're merely gathering data on what you're doing when you're online in their game.

You are in a pretty small minority (like, just you) in this opinion. Yet you state it as fact.

[ice4277]

I am reading this thread and staring at a banner ad for BF2142 at the top of the page. Classic.

[JonInMiddleGA]

FWIW, just from reading what's been posted in this thread, it appears to me that the active transfer of data -- both inbound in the form of new ads that appear in the game & outbound in the form of your web habits and/or other information -- is what is limited to the time that you're playing. Nothing I've seen would make me think that the information being collected is only coming from the time you spend online while playing (which is what I think some were saying up the thread).

Basically, they're going to mine your computer for any information they can get about your demographic niche (via your surfing habits for example) & then they'll tailor the ads that you see based on that information. It's basically ad-ware that you've paid for the privilege of installing on your computer, albeit one that serves ads in a format different than the usual pop-up/pop-under style.

In addition to the role it will play in determining what ads are sent to you while playing, I can almost guarantee that any information EA captures will be used to further target their online ad spending; i.e. if they see a bazillion cookies for gamespy, then they're probably going to spend more dollars on advertising their next similar game on gamespy. Likewise, if they see fewer cookies for gaming sites (or sports sites or whatever) than they expect but instead see 50% of the players with cookies for cnn.com, they would shift money in that direction for the next ad campaign.

[Bee]

So EA will be advertising heavy on the pr0n sites in the near future?

[Mustang]

I said this 3-4 months ago.. spoooooky... oooooooooooo


hxxp://fof.sportplanet.gamespy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1209837&postcount=14

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Again I say - do you get upset that ESPN.com analyzes what ads you click on on their page? This is NO different.

There is a huge difference, I'm not paying $49.99 for espn.com. Beyond the fact that they're using programs to collect data is the fact that they are collecting money on products I've already paid for in full. That's bs, there is no other company that does that.

If they were giving away the game for free, that would be completely understandable, but they're not.

The EULA is really too vague to say whether they're collecting it 24/7 or just while the software is running, and really as long as you have it installed they are covered.

Mizzou does post alot of ea stuff, but this is one I appreciate because
I'd of probably not noticed it before hand and ended up purchasing this garbage.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by Mustang

I said this 3-4 months ago.. spoooooky... oooooooooooo


hxxp://fof.sportplanet.gamespy.com/forums/showpost.php?p=1209837&postcount=14

When did we have to start xxping our own site?

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

When did we have to start xxping our own site?

Habit...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Samdari

You are in a pretty small minority (like, just you) in this opinion. Yet you state it as fact.

My apologies, I missed pasting one piece of info.

Many of you will say this means crap, but whatever...

From a member of the DICE development team on their own message board. (DICE actually made the game, EA is distributing it and bought DICE about a month ago)

Originally Posted by [DICE]CKMC
Data will only be gathered from in game. Web browsing and other profiling data is not being gathered.

Squib has essentially nailed it. The purpose of the gathering is to determine if an ad is viewed by players.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

There is a huge difference, I'm not paying $49.99 for espn.com. Beyond the fact that they're using programs to collect data is the fact that they are collecting money on products I've already paid for in full. That's bs, there is no other company that does that.

If they were giving away the game for free, that would be completely understandable, but they're not.

So when you play NHL 2k7 there aren't ads on the boards fo the rink? When you play Gran Turismo you don't drive the Dodge Viper? I could come up with a ton more examples.

This is a bit of a naive statement.

[Deattribution]

Originally Posted by wade moore

So when you play NHL 2k7 there aren't ads on the boards fo the rink? When you play Gran Turismo you don't drive the Dodge Viper? I could come up with a ton more examples.

This is a bit of a naive statement.

Do they collect data on consoles? no.

Are those ads interactive? no.

Do any of those games come with an EULA for their advertisements? no. why? because they don't need one, if anything they add to the experience.

And I hardly call using a Dodge Viper in a racing game advertisement. It is subtlely, but I don't think you'll get a complaint. When you start adding obtrusive ads that are dynamic then it's no longer subtle. If that's the best you can muster up I'd say you have no need to even be in this thread.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Deattribution

Do they collect data on consoles? no.

Are those ads interactive? no.

Do any of those games come with an EULA for their advertisements? no. why? because they don't need one, if anything they add to the experience.

And I hardly call using a Dodge Viper in a racing game advertisement. It is subtlely, but I don't think you'll get a complaint. When you start adding obtrusive ads that are dynamic then it's no longer subtle. If that's the best you can muster up I'd say you have no need to even be in this thread.

You specifically said

Beyond the fact that they're using programs to collect data is the fact that they are collecting money on products I've already paid for in full. That's bs, there is no other company that does that.

That is completely untrue. Both of the things I mentione dare CLEARLY companies collecting money on products that you've paid already in full on. I can come up with 100's of others from 100's of other games and MANY companies.

You're just changing the argument now because I proved you wrong. In your post you specifically said you were upset about them making money even beyond them collecting data.

[Mizzou B-ball fan]

Originally Posted by wade moore

So when you play NHL 2k7 there aren't ads on the boards fo the rink? When you play Gran Turismo you don't drive the Dodge Viper? I could come up with a ton more examples.

This is a bit of a naive statement.

You're totally missing the point. In one of my initial points, I stated that this wasn't a problem at all. The advertisements that are in the NHL2K7 game are already paid for when that company gives money to Sega. That game is not checking your cookies for your browsing habits and changing those billboards according to what you like. The same ads are displayed in the same places every time in the game.

As far as Gran Turismo, that is a licensed product. Sony paid to be able to show that (or any other car) in the game. The cars available do not change based on your browser cookies. If that were the case, you could draw a parallel, but it's not.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by wade moore

My apologies, I missed pasting one piece of info.

Many of you will say this means crap, but whatever...

From a member of the DICE development team on their own message board. (DICE actually made the game, EA is distributing it and bought DICE about a month ago)




[/i]

Anyone interested in the entire thread on TOTALBF2.com - hxxp://www.totalbf2142.com/forums/sh...?t=4180&page=2

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Mizzou B-ball fan

You're totally missing the point. In one of my initial points, I stated that this wasn't a problem at all. The advertisements that are in the NHL2K7 game are already paid for when that company gives money to Sega. That game is not checking your cookies for your browsing habits and changing those billboards according to what you like. The same ads are displayed in the same places every time in the game.

As far as Gran Turismo, that is a licensed product. Sony paid to be able to show that (or any other car) in the game. The cars available do not change based on your browser cookies. If that were the case, you could draw a parallel, but it's not.

I was specifically addressing Deattribution's statement that no other companies earn money on a game that you've paid for in full. Maybe I'm wrong on the Gran Turismo one, but NHL2k7 and others are getting paid for their ads. I'm sure some of them have clauses based around # of games sold, etc.

Fact is, the idea of earning money via in-game advertisements has been going on for years. To pin that label on EA for this game is just silly.