Breaking News!!! Ipod Cracked.

[stevew]

The whole "breaking news" thing being an homage to some old jb magic ipod thread. Anyways, interesting news. Guy would probably have to be extremely intelligent to reverse engineer something of this nature.

http://yahoo.reuters.com/news/articl...mktNews&rpc=44
SAN FRANCISCO, Oct 24 (Reuters) - A hacker who as a teen cracked the encryption on DVDs has found a way to unlock the code that prevents iPod users from playing songs from download music stores other than Apple Computer Inc.'s (AAPL.O: Quote, Profile, Research) iTunes, his company said on Tuesday.

Jon Lech Johansen, a 22-year-old Norway native who lives in San Francisco, cracked Apple's FairPlay copy-protection technology, said Monique Farantzos, managing director at DoubleTwist, the company that plans to license the code to businesses.

"What he did was basically reverse-engineer FairPlay," she said. "This allows other companies to offer content for the iPod."

At the moment, Apple aims to keep music bought from its iTunes online music store only available for Apple products, while songs bought from other online stores typically do not work on iPods.



But Johansen's technology could help rivals sell competing products that play music from iTunes and offer songs for download that work on iPods as they seek to take a bite out of Apple's dominance of digital music.

ITunes commands an 88 percent share of legal song downloads in the United States, while the iPod dominates digital music player sales with more than 60 percent of the market.

Cupertino, California-based Apple, whose profits have soared in recent years on the strength of the iPod, declined to comment.

Johansen, known as DVD Jon, gained fame when at the age of 15 he wrote and distributed a program that cracked the encryption codes on DVDs. This allowed DVDs to be copied and played back on any device.

His latest feat could help companies such as Microsoft Corp. (MSFT.O: Quote, Profile, Research), Nokia (NOK.N: Quote, Profile, Research)(NOK1V.HE: Quote, Profile, Research), Sony Ericsson and Samsung Electronics Co. Ltd. (005930.KS: Quote, Profile, Research), which have all announced plans over the past few months for music download services combined with new devices to challenge Apple.


© Reuters 2006. All Rights Reserved

[VPI97]

I bought a iPod last week for my daughter and we had no problems putting music on there that wasn't from iTunes. Am I missing something here?

[Northwood_DK]

This guy is the only famous nerd in Norway and always makes it to the front page of the newspapers when he breaks something. If only he could spend his time creating something himself…

[Klinglerware]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I bought a iPod last week for my daughter and we had no problems putting music on there that wasn't from iTunes. Am I missing something here?

I presume that content from other for-pay providers cannot play on an iPod...

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I bought a iPod last week for my daughter and we had no problems putting music on there that wasn't from iTunes. Am I missing something here?

I think the bigger issue for many users is the inability to use downloads from iTunes more widely -- like unlimited transport from computer to computerm and loading onto other brands of players.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by VPI97

I bought a iPod last week for my daughter and we had no problems putting music on there that wasn't from iTunes. Am I missing something here?

I've been using this word a lot lately... the description in the article is totally disingenuous. MP3s play just fine, I can only imagine they're talking about one of the subscription services like Napster or something, where i know the files are encrypted in some weird way.

As Quik pointed out, the other issue is a much bigger one, not being able to download stuff from iTunes and put it on a 3rd party player, the inability to use it on more than 2 machines, etc...

[Router Help]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I think the bigger issue for many users is the inability to use downloads from iTunes more widely -- like unlimited transport from computer to computerm and loading onto other brands of players.

Um, this is already very easy for anyone to do.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Um, this is already very easy for anyone to do.

really? has something changed in the last 2 months that now allows players like a creative labs zen to play back an m4a file downloaded from iTunes? If so that is major news to me.

[Router Help]

Convert to ogg/mp3?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Convert to ogg/mp3?

Sounds great! How do I go about doing it?

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Sounds great! How do I go about doing it?

If he tells you he'd have to kill you.

[Router Help]

Here's one way: http://hymn-project.org/download.php

Search google for ways to convert m4a to mp3 and lots of software will come up.

[Router Help]

Damn, guess I have to kill you.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Here's one way: http://hymn-project.org/download.php

Search google for ways to convert m4a to mp3 and lots of software will come up.

First off, hymn stopped keeping up with version 6 of itunes and is now dead to my knowledge.

Secondly, are you telling me downloading and installing a 3rd party program to illegaly break the apple encryption, convert them to MP3, then tranfer those new MP3 files to your player qualifes as it being "very easy" (your words) for someone to use Itunes purchased music on a 3rd party player?

[Router Help]

Sorry, didn't realize that program wasn't up to date, but I'm sure many of the others that come up will work just fine. And yes, I think it is much easier than the apple provided method of burning to your files to a CD, ripping back the computer as MP3, and then transferring to your player.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Sorry, didn't realize that program wasn't up to date, but I'm sure many of the others that come up will work just fine. And yes, I think it is much easier than the apple provided method of burning to your files to a CD, ripping back the computer as MP3, and then transferring to your player.

The whole fucking point is none of the methods currently available are "very easy." Why you were so quick to claim so is completely beyond me, as you quite clearly have no knowledge beyond the web searches you ran after being called out on it.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

The whole fucking point is none of the methods currently available are "very easy." Why you were so quick to claim so is completely beyond me, as you quite clearly have no knowledge beyond the web searches you ran after being called out on it.

maybe it's beyond your understanding

his easy is your impossible

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Sorry, didn't realize that program wasn't up to date, but I'm sure many of the others that come up will work just fine. And yes, I think it is much easier than the apple provided method of burning to your files to a CD, ripping back the computer as MP3, and then transferring to your player.

Last I read, there wasn't one compatible with iTunes 7 fwiw.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Somebody 'splain it to me, 'cause I'm confused: since the article cites how helpful this knowledge could be to other companies I'm assuming that they're likely to make use of it. What has me confused is how what the Norwegian dude did is legal. I thought most everything these days has some sort of "do not reverse engineer" clause.

Now since I don't see the megacorps being willing to indiscriminately involve themselves with something that's likely to bring them legal trouble, I'm guessing that Norway dude is legal. What I'm confused about is how/why.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Somebody 'splain it to me, 'cause I'm confused: since the article cites how helpful this knowledge could be to other companies I'm assuming that they're likely to make use of it. What has me confused is how what the Norwegian dude did is legal. I thought most everything these days has some sort of "do not reverse engineer" clause.

Now since I don't see the megacorps being willing to indiscriminately involve themselves with something that's likely to bring them legal trouble, I'm guessing that Norway dude is legal. What I'm confused about is how/why.

Yeah, I'm pretty stumped about this as well.

[Ksyrup]

I had the same question. The article presupposes it is legal since the company is openly talking about marketing this to Apple rivals, but it just seems odd. However, I know nothing about the law in this area.

I do recall RealNetworks succeeding in a lawsuit against a company that created an application which allowed users to download .rm streams, but maybe the technical /legal issues were different in that case...?

[Router Help]

Maybe double clicking is too hard for you? Sorry, but my original suggestion of searching google for ways to convert m4a to mp3 still stands. Some methods even work with iTunes 7.1 I know because I've done it.

[RPI-Fan]

I think the implication is that MS, etc. can indirectly make use of this software. Just like MP3 players in general were indirectly spawned from downloading services like Napster and Kazaa, Microsoft's MP3 player can get more play because there will be more generic mp3 files available.

MS doesn't have to use 'DVD Jon' in its advertising.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Maybe double clicking is too hard for you? Sorry, but my original suggestion of searching google for ways to convert m4a to mp3 still stands. Some methods even work with iTunes 7.1 I know because I've done it.

I really think you're missing the point that QuikSand originally raised and I supported. It's simply not easy to take purchased songs from iTunes and play them on non-iPod players.

[SnDvls]

I thought you could just burn your Itunes to CD then convert them back onto your computer in mp3's.

never tried it so I guess I could be wrong.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

I thought you could just burn your Itunes to CD then convert them back onto your computer in mp3's.

Again, can you honestly say this would be "very easy for anyone" ? No, of course not, and it's a total waste of CD-Rs.

I think some people are having a hard time understanding "very easy" and "very easy for tech geeks like ourselves."

Very easy to me is "very easy for a 10 year old" like itunes + ipod is right now. The store and ipod interface couldn't be more 1-2-3.

[stevew]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Again, can you honestly say this would be "very easy for anyone" ? No, of course not, and it's a total waste of CD-Rs.

I think some people are having a hard time understanding "very easy" and "very easy for tech geeks like ourselves."

Very easy to me is "very easy for a 10 year old" like itunes + ipod is right now. The store and ipod interface couldn't be more 1-2-3.

Yes, your point was not lost on me.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by stevew

Yes, your point was not lost on me.

I'm with stupid.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Again, can you honestly say this would be "very easy for anyone" ? No, of course not, and it's a total waste of CD-Rs.

I think some people are having a hard time understanding "very easy" and "very easy for tech geeks like ourselves."

Very easy to me is "very easy for a 10 year old" like itunes + ipod is right now. The store and ipod interface couldn't be more 1-2-3.

I think you missed my question/statement

I never said it was easy either just saying the easiest way I heard how to do it.

burning the music onto a cd-r is actually pretty easy...I'd say very easy on this part...the part about wasting cd-r's really doesn't matter as that doesn't compute into being easy or hard anyhow. But Itunes holds your hand in burning them to a cd.

I've never tired to do the mp3 part so I couldn't tell you on that. suppose it could require a rocket science degree on it for all I know.

[stevew]

Random joe schmo who got his kid a samsung mp3 player cause it was affordable is not going to think that burning a purchased Itune song to cd, and then ripping it back in mp3 format is easy.

[Subby]

Originally Posted by Router Help

Maybe double clicking is too hard for you? Sorry, but my original suggestion of searching google for ways to convert m4a to mp3 still stands. Some methods even work with iTunes 7.1 I know because I've done it.

STICK TO ROUTERS, BUDDY!

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Use DVD or CD -RWs, which can be rewritten. Then you don't waste any.

[SirFozzie]

Reverse Engineering is still legal in a lot of areas, Jon.

The US does prohibit it with the DMCA, but a LOT of nations don't subscribe to it.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SirFozzie

Reverse Engineering is still legal in a lot of areas, Jon.

The US does prohibit it with the DMCA, but a LOT of nations don't subscribe to it.

Okay, but can you bring the product back into the US and put it on the market?
I'm assuming you can, again just based on the points the article raised, but I'm not following how.

For example, there are countries AFAIK where, say, it's legal to grow your own marijuana. But you can't bring it into the US just because it was grown elsewhere.

[Ksyrup]

This is from another article on the subject:


"An unnamed client will soon use the technology so its copy-protected content will be playable on iPods, she said, declining to give any specifics.

"There's a certain amount of trouble that Apple can give us, but not enough to stop this," Farantzos said Tuesday. "We believe we're on good legal ground, and our attorneys have given us the green light on this."

Apple spokeswoman Kristin Huguet said the company did not want to comment.

A few others, including RealNetworks Inc.'s RealPlayer Music Store, have also tried to circumvent Apple's copy-protection technology, called FairPlay, but haven't gained much traction.

Fred von Lohmann, a staff attorney at the privacy-advocacy group, Electronic Frontier Foundation, said Johansen is treading carefully this time, consulting with lawyers, but isn't necessarily cleared from a legal fight over copy-protection laws.

"There is a lot of untested legal ground surrounding reverse engineering," he said."

[Bee]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Again, can you honestly say this would be "very easy for anyone" ? No, of course not, and it's a total waste of CD-Rs.

I think some people are having a hard time understanding "very easy" and "very easy for tech geeks like ourselves."

Very easy to me is "very easy for a 10 year old" like itunes + ipod is right now. The store and ipod interface couldn't be more 1-2-3.

I think you need to change 10 year old to 60 year old because a lot of 10 year olds know more than most of the folks on this board about computer related stuff.

[mtolson]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Somebody 'splain it to me, 'cause I'm confused: since the article cites how helpful this knowledge could be to other companies I'm assuming that they're likely to make use of it. What has me confused is how what the Norwegian dude did is legal. I thought most everything these days has some sort of "do not reverse engineer" clause.

Now since I don't see the megacorps being willing to indiscriminately involve themselves with something that's likely to bring them legal trouble, I'm guessing that Norway dude is legal. What I'm confused about is how/why.

I think its legal from the stand point that he is not making any modification to Apply code or allowing allowing a user to circumvent Apples security allowing them to gain access to songs from Ipod without cost. What he appears to have done is provide other for sell music site the ability to have there songs played via Itune's using Itunes fairplay technology. They get the ability to make sure there songs work on Ipod hardware without losing its own encryption.

To me, this is sort of like technology that allows Windows programs to be run on a Mac OS.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by stevew

Random joe schmo who got his kid a samsung mp3 player cause it was affordable is not going to think that burning a purchased Itune song to cd, and then ripping it back in mp3 format is easy.

well good luck using the samsung player, because those things are a bitch to get working correctly on the computer, let alone the UI on the machine itself. If someone can't burn a CD then rip it back, then the point of an MP3 player is lost on them, since that how 90% of the music ends up on mp3 players.

[Ksyrup]

I think it's "easy" for the vast majority of people, but probably not efficient enough and too time-consuming for people who would rather just have the music load directly onto the player.