FOF2K7: "Recommend" can adjust game plans significantly. (PING: Fast simmers)

[Ben E Lou]

I just noticed this. The recommend buttons for gameplanning can have a significant impact. I'm facing TB in Week 2. They rank 1st in passing attempts, and 31st in rushing attempts. The recommend button for defensive gameplan moved me from expecting the run around 55% of the time on first and ten, all the way down to 37%, and the use of nickel and dime personnel increased a little also on the Defensive Personnel screen.

[highfiveoh]

That's really good to hear. I never felt right messing with my gameplans before, since I had no reason to believe that the computer teams would be able to adjust.

[Caratacus]

Hopefully it follows that the AI teams will adjust significantly to user gameplans, especially extremely onesided offenses.

[jeff061]

Yes it's much better this year. I've been going game to game and recommend seems to fill it out pretty damn close to what I was going to manually set it to.

[jeff061]

Originally Posted by Caratacus

Hopefully it follows that the AI teams will adjust significantly to user gameplans, especially extremely onesided offenses.

Also worth noting I got a "Defense was familiar with that play" early in the 1st quarter of a game after I had been going run heavy for the past two games. Don't think you usually saw messages like that until the second half in 2004.

[Ben E Lou]

OK. I've got N.O. Week 3. They're 20th in rushing attempts, 2nd in passing attempts. However, they have a studly-looking RB, and a 36/36 QB. AI is recommending 56% expect run on 1st down.

[highfiveoh]

Depending on how smart the AI is this could really affect multiplayer leagues. Lots of teams get by using extreme gameplans against other teams that use the generic scout recommended gameplans.

[Icy]

jbmagic will be so happy reading this.

[Ben E Lou]

Week 4, vs. Arizona.

The Cards have a 20/55 QB, a 71/71 RB, and a pretty solid offensive line. The AI is recommending 62% expect run on first down.

Wow. Just wow.

Klnx pls k thx



If the recommend button is doing this, I can't help but think that the AI defenses are adjusting to my tendencies and/or personnel.

MP improvements only, my black butt.

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by Icy

jbmagic will be so happy reading this.

I am.

I can't wait for payday to get this game. I am very happy to hear this.

[lcjjdnh]

Sorry if this is a silly question, but are the game plans adjusting in this same way if you have scouts set game plan in the global options as opposed to actually clicking recommend before every game?

[Buccaneer]

Is there a single recommend button or do you have to open every screen to click recommend?

[jbmagic]

Originally Posted by lcjjdnh

Sorry if this is a silly question, but are the game plans adjusting in this same way if you have scouts set game plan in the global options as opposed to actually clicking recommend before every game?

Probably. After you sim the game, look at the offense and defense game plan that they used for your team.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Is there a single recommend button or do you have to open every screen to click recommend?

The same Global Options button as in FOF2K4 is there.

[Buccaneer]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

The same Global Options button as in FOF2K4 is there.

Which is what? Letting coaches handle it? When do I see what they come up with?

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Which is what? Letting coaches handle it? When do I see what they come up with?

After the game, or you can hit the two recommend buttons if you want to see it beforehand, ya lazy old man.

[Buccaneer]

Two? Does that include all of the Personnel, Formation Use and Pass Coverage screens? I'm trying to remember (which is hard to do) but it appears this version combined each of the situational screens into one? I tried to find the screenshot but couldn't.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Two? Does that include all of the Personnel, Formation Use and Pass Coverage screens? I'm trying to remember (which is hard to do) but it appears this version combined each of the situational screens into one? I tried to find the screenshot but couldn't.

Formation use doesn't change, as far as I tell. The "basic gameplan" screens for offense and defense change significantly. The others are things that you probably wouldn't change much anyway.

[Capital]

This is good to hear...since the only piece I don't manage is Game Plans. Your analysis should mean that the computer alters these for each game.

[duckman]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Formation use doesn't change, as far as I tell. The "basic gameplan" screens for offense and defense change significantly. The others are things that you probably wouldn't change much anyway.

The only time you need to hit the recommend button on the formation screen is at the beginning of the new season.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by duckman

The only time you need to hit the recommend button on the formation screen is at the beginning of the new season.

It changes then? Is that new for 2K7, or did I just miss that 2K4?

[duckman]

It has done so the last couple of seasons I've hit the recommend button. It could be from the fact I am using a young quarterback who is still learning new formations.

[Cringer]

Ok, so I just bought the game in the last couple of hours and the first thing I did was check this.

I did so by starting an MP league, and set all teams to computer control along with the coaches controling everything for when I took over some teams. I simmed until before week 3 of the regular season so things could get going some. I then took over in this MP, Arizona and their next 4 opponents (St. Louis, Atlanta, Kansas City, Chicago). I took screen shots of everyones offensive and defensive gameplans right away then simmed week 3 games and did it again. There were changes for everyone, on both gameplans. For weeks 4 and 5 I just looked at Arizona and their opponent for that week because I was becoming satified already.

I was becoming a little disappointed that the offensive gameplans didn't seem to be changing much. They were changing, but only a few points up or down. Better then nothing but I was thinking some more change once in a while would be nice. Then I saw this....

Atlanta offense before the game


Atlanta offense after the game


As you may notice, there are some 10 point changes in there, very nice.

And just for the heck of it I will throw in a defensive example.....

KC defense before the game


KC defense after the game


Some good size adjustments were needed for short yardage situations I guess, very nice again.


Also, for the KC game I checked the Slight Pass Situations on defense for both teams. KC didn't adjust anything except double coverage, going from 31 and 12 to 53 and 23. Arizona adjust the coverages a little (a percentage point up or down for each) and double coverage (from 52/23 to 35/14).

I checked the Gameplan adjustments the first week also, and noticed no changes at all for the two teams I checked. Both teams were also exactly the same here so I think that is something the AI (in this case anyways) will not adjust. Maybe in solo play it does but I can't really check that.

I am convinced, this is 100x better so far.

[Leonidas]

I've been experimenting on my own gameplans and have been doing 20 year block runs of the AI running the same team as a control and am unfortunately finding it very difficult to beat the AI run averages. I hope I can find something that works so I feel like I'm actually contributing to the game.

[Ksyrup]

That's great for me, since I try to stay as far away from the game planning screens as possible.

Maybe my first challenge will be the "Human Gameplanning" Challenge.

[FrogMan]

okay big guy I've seen a gazillion threads started by you in the last weekend, read a few of them about of this and that was improved in the game, but this one here might be the one that just opened my eyes to the possibility of me buying this game someday...

I'm not a superquick simmer, but as much as I like taking my time to know my players with FM, I always likes the offseason/bulding your team over a long period of time aspects of FOF. I've always gone more with the recommend button and to see that the AI is actually doing something with it, it is refreshing and might prove to be a solid selling point to make FOF my Christmas period game, because I got FM2007 coming in the mail and will dedicate myself to that one first

FM

[kcchief19]

I noticed this too. I've been using the global option to let coaches set gameplans thus far until I dive into game planning full bore.

I don't have any quibbles with the defensive AI. The only minor negative on the offensive side is that I think the AI may be taking your opponent too much into consideration rather than your opponent. I've have a healthy number of weapons on the offensive side, but every once in a while when I'm playing a tough defense the game plan goes real conservative.

I love the way it works though in that if you wanted to employ a house rule to use this, it really makes hiring a good coach even more important.

[Leonidas]

I hope this isn't like FM though, where you might as well just let the AI do it as anything you do will be less productive. My testing is mixed now. I've managed to build a running game as strong or stronger than the AI, but the passing game is just not there. I can't get the right mix of accuracy and distance.

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Leonidas

I hope this isn't like FM though, where you might as well just let the AI do it as anything you do will be less productive. My testing is mixed now. I've managed to build a running game as strong or stronger than the AI, but the passing game is just not there. I can't get the right mix of accuracy and distance.

1. I do better in FM when I control tactics. Not that I am that good most likely, but I do better then letting the AI do it.

2. I have not played enough to comment on balancing the offense, but I will anyways. I have had mixed results to this point, but my running game really sucks right now and I have a rookie QB so I think it is as good as it could be for my team.

[SlyBelle1]

I would love to know what gets taking into consideration when the recommend button is selected. Head Coach? Coordinators? Scouts? etc. Or does it just look at your available personnel and your upcoming opponent and decides based on trends. If it is the later, then I guess I would be a little concerned that the recommend option is a little too perfect. Although I don't usually like to micro-manager a gameplan, I would hate there to be no challenge in it at all. Certainly in my opinion, the best future approach would be to allow the setting of "high-level" gameplans that I could just say "run a lot", "pass a lot", "balance", etc. I think you could accomplish this with a handful of sliders. That would make it much better for me personally.

[Gallifrey]

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Week 4, vs. Arizona.

The Cards have a 20/55 QB, a 71/71 RB, and a pretty solid offensive line. The AI is recommending 62% expect run on first down.

Wow. Just wow.

Klnx pls k thx



If the recommend button is doing this, I can't help but think that the AI defenses are adjusting to my tendencies and/or personnel.

MP improvements only, my black butt.

This is very cool. And very funny too.

[Passacaglia]

You can let the AI do tactics in FM?

[Cringer]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

You can let the AI do tactics in FM?

I figured he meant letting assistants pick the lineup and going with basic tactics, instead of setting your own lineup and adjusting tactics to how you want them.