Summer League in FOF2K7 - Image heavy

Peregrine · 10-30-2006, 08:32 AM

Basically I wanted to do a quick comparison with a player to see what kind of different summer league makes. Going in I thought it would probably be like an extra season, some minor improvements across the board. It looks like this is the case, but it's still nice to have.

I used Vernon Davis as my example, he has a lot of upside and I ran various seasons with him either going or not going to summer league. Keep in mind there are still variables such as training camp improvements, and general improvements in play, but I think we can still use this.

Basically here are his stats before everything:

I basically had three scenarios, if he went to summer league, if he didn't, and if he went to summer league but didn't play at all that season (to try to isolate any non-play related gains.)

His Training camp stats vary a bit, as normal -

After camp without summer league:

After camp with summer league:

And the control option, summer league with no play:

Clearly just from this it's obvious that there are improvements in the second two from 2-7 points per stat with potential. Those look like solid summer league gains. But does summer league help his development throughout the season?

Peregrine · 10-30-2006, 08:36 AM

I took another snapshot at the end of the year. The control showed that Davis gained absolutely nothing by sitting on the bench all year, this is what we would expect. For the other two:

End of year with no summer league:

End of year with summer league:

Wow, obviously big gains here also from going to summer league!

Peregrine · 10-30-2006, 08:40 AM

I also took some snapshots at the beginning of the next season but it seemed any gains were already in place. So I can conclude that going to summer league gives substantial gains in player development, both during training camp and during the season. Comparing the above players from start to end shows some truly impressive gains. A season of play and summer league gave Davis around +11-+19 boosts in his green bar stats, without summer league he only got around 7-12 points in each. Anyway, hope this helps someone!

st.cronin · 10-30-2006, 08:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

I also took some snapshots at the beginning of the next season but it seemed any gains were already in place. So I can conclude that going to summer league gives substantial gains in player development, both during training camp and during the season. Comparing the above players from start to end shows some truly impressive gains. Anyway, hope this helps someone!

Do you think there might be a downside? Increased injury risk, for example?

Peregrine · 10-30-2006, 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Do you think there might be a downside? Increased injury risk, for example?

Could be, though I don't think you can actually get hurt in summer league since the games aren't actually run. He didn't get hurt any time I ran him through but we could get some more data on this.

Caratacus · 10-30-2006, 08:50 AM

That's nice to know, a nice little addition. Cheers.

CraigSca · 10-30-2006, 08:52 AM

Great job, Peregrine.

Will be interesting to see how these players "play" in year 3. Perhaps there's a greater risk of injury the following year, or perhaps there's a greater chance for them to go into the season "tired" since they had very little time off.

Northwood_DK · 10-30-2006, 08:55 AM

Great stuff.

I still hope we will get to have a Q&A with Jim at some point.

I also wonder what kind of effect this would have on a running back and endurance. If his real career will be shorter due to his extra work in a summer league.

Peregrine · 10-30-2006, 08:59 AM

Someone should definitely try this with a quarterback, also, since they are notorious for being okay at first then really breaking out in year 4 or 5, development wise, would summer league accelerate that process?

VPI97 · 10-30-2006, 09:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Peregrine

Could be, though I don't think you can actually get hurt in summer league since the games aren't actually run.

Knowing Jim, I doubt this is the case. I would suspect that there's an injury risk associated with the summer league, but I have nothing but intuition to back it up.

wade moore · 10-30-2006, 09:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VPI97

Knowing Jim, I doubt this is the case. I would suspect that there's an injury risk associated with the summer league, but I have nothing but intuition to back it up.

I'd be somewhat (not majorly) concerned if there's not.. otherwise what we will see is guys like Vernon Davis being sent over rather than guys like Lang Campbell (who's Lang Campbell ? - exactly)...

kcchief19 · 10-30-2006, 09:28 AM

Interesting stuff. I'm simming super slow taking everything in right now, but the first guy I sent to summer league was a middle-of-the road wide receiver (23/47). He injured his hip in the last exhibition game of his rookie season and played sparringly, mostly as the fourth or fifth wideout when he was active. I didn't chart his progress in detail, but of note is that by the end of the season following his summer league trip he was now fully developed (47/47).

I think I will like the way it is implemented. With this player, I was hoping that his trip to summer league might improve his potential (it did not), but it certainly did accelerate his development, especially combined with more frequent play the following season.

nilodor · 10-30-2006, 10:07 AM

I've sent a couple of linemen over and seen minimal improvement at best. That being said even with lots of playing time they haven't really developed. I'm thinking they might turn into late career busts. (After 4 or 5 seasons they lose all potential and are just left with current ratings)

Cringer · 10-30-2006, 10:59 AM

Good info to have for sure. Sound slike I will enjoy this new feature a lot.

Emiliano · 10-30-2006, 12:05 PM

Very interesting stuff here Peregrine, thanks.

kcchief19 · 10-30-2006, 12:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nilodor

I've sent a couple of linemen over and seen minimal improvement at best. That being said even with lots of playing time they haven't really developed. I'm thinking they might turn into late career busts. (After 4 or 5 seasons they lose all potential and are just left with current ratings)

Like many aspects of FOF, I'm sure there are "clues" we can learn that will be indicators of success/failure for summer league projects. If everyone you sent to summer league developed the same way, it wouldn't be much fun. I'm sure there are player profiles of certain abilities and ratings that make players more or less likely to benefit from going to summer league.

Vinatieri for Prez · 10-30-2006, 03:15 PM

I would like to see possible injuries and late season fatigue be part of this. I would also like to see some top rookies refuse summer league and some who agreed to go but then became disgruntled (because they didn't want to). Perhaps a dialog box pops up that gives an indicator before sending them.

SunDevil · 10-30-2006, 03:20 PM

Yea, I dialog box that says no thanks, I am going to train with the Miami Hurricanes this offseason.

Peregrine · 10-31-2006, 11:38 PM

One thing to add here, we probably need some more research to see if summer league will mostly help prospects with high upside, I've seen the same results others mentioned when I sent less talented players, it just didn't seem to make much of a difference.

SackAttack · 11-01-2006, 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Northwood_DK

Great stuff.

I still hope we will get to have a Q&A with Jim at some point.

Nothing like what you're hoping for, I'm certain, but I will say to stay tuned in the next week or two.

Anthony · 11-01-2006, 07:13 AM

he's gonna give an interview at Sportsdigs?

Ksyrup · 11-01-2006, 07:32 AM

I'm playing Cleveland in one of my two test leagues, and I probably should have sent Frye or Anderson to Summer League given the QB situation I have, but I sent Kamerion Wembley instead. At the time, he was rated 35/87. After Summer League and Training Camp, he's now rated 62/87.

Ksyrup · 11-01-2006, 07:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I would also like to see some top rookies refuse summer league and some who agreed to go but then became disgruntled (because they didn't want to). Perhaps a dialog box pops up that gives an indicator before sending them.

Having sent Wembley with no problem, I'm inclined to agree with you. I probably abused the system by sending a #1 pick to Europe. I have to figure if you tried that in real life (hell, I should have sent Kellen Winslow!

), you'd get a pissed off prima donna response most of the time.

Of course, with the number of low currents/high futures available as FA after the draft, I'm thinking about picking up a couple at positions I can afford to sit them for a year and sending one of them each year to Europe to see how they pan out. That, or sending a young backup QB.

SackAttack · 11-01-2006, 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hell Atlantic

he's gonna give an interview at Sportsdigs?

That's between him and Franklinnoble. I don't write for Sportsdigs.

cthomer5000 · 11-02-2006, 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SackAttack

That's between him and Franklinnoble. I don't write for Sportsdigs.

Who's your doctor? I want to have my sense of humor removed too.

10-30-2006, 08:40 AM	#3
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	I also took some snapshots at the beginning of the next season but it seemed any gains were already in place. So I can conclude that going to summer league gives substantial gains in player development, both during training camp and during the season. Comparing the above players from start to end shows some truly impressive gains. A season of play and summer league gave Davis around +11-+19 boosts in his green bar stats, without summer league he only got around 7-12 points in each. Anyway, hope this helps someone! Last edited by Peregrine : 10-30-2006 at 08:42 AM.

10-30-2006, 08:52 AM	#7
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	Great job, Peregrine. Will be interesting to see how these players "play" in year 3. Perhaps there's a greater risk of injury the following year, or perhaps there's a greater chance for them to go into the season "tired" since they had very little time off. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

10-30-2006, 08:55 AM	#8
Northwood_DK College Benchwarmer Join Date: Sep 2003 Location: Back in Norway	Great stuff. I still hope we will get to have a Q&A with Jim at some point. I also wonder what kind of effect this would have on a running back and endurance. If his real career will be shorter due to his extra work in a summer league. Last edited by Northwood_DK : 10-30-2006 at 08:55 AM.

10-30-2006, 10:59 AM	#14
Cringer Grizzled Veteran Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Edinburg,TX	Good info to have for sure. Sound slike I will enjoy this new feature a lot. __________________ You Stole Fizzy Lifting drinks! You bumped into the ceiling which now has to be washed and steralized, so you get NOTHING! You lose!

10-30-2006, 12:05 PM	#15
Emiliano College Prospect Join Date: May 2004 Location: Nuremberg, Germany	Very interesting stuff here Peregrine, thanks. __________________ Xbox Live&PSN: Emiliano81 GM of the Rome Gladiators in the WOOF

10-30-2006, 08:36 AM	#2
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	I took another snapshot at the end of the year. The control showed that Davis gained absolutely nothing by sitting on the bench all year, this is what we would expect. For the other two: End of year with no summer league: End of year with summer league: Wow, obviously big gains here also from going to summer league!

10-30-2006, 08:50 AM	#6
Caratacus n00b Join Date: Oct 2006 Location: Cardiff, Wales.	That's nice to know, a nice little addition. Cheers.

10-30-2006, 08:59 AM	#9
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	Someone should definitely try this with a quarterback, also, since they are notorious for being okay at first then really breaking out in year 4 or 5, development wise, would summer league accelerate that process?

10-30-2006, 09:28 AM	#12
kcchief19 Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Kansas City, MO	Interesting stuff. I'm simming super slow taking everything in right now, but the first guy I sent to summer league was a middle-of-the road wide receiver (23/47). He injured his hip in the last exhibition game of his rookie season and played sparringly, mostly as the fourth or fifth wideout when he was active. I didn't chart his progress in detail, but of note is that by the end of the season following his summer league trip he was now fully developed (47/47). I think I will like the way it is implemented. With this player, I was hoping that his trip to summer league might improve his potential (it did not), but it certainly did accelerate his development, especially combined with more frequent play the following season.

10-30-2006, 10:07 AM	#13
nilodor College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: calgary, AB	I've sent a couple of linemen over and seen minimal improvement at best. That being said even with lots of playing time they haven't really developed. I'm thinking they might turn into late career busts. (After 4 or 5 seasons they lose all potential and are just left with current ratings)

10-30-2006, 03:15 PM	#17
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I would like to see possible injuries and late season fatigue be part of this. I would also like to see some top rookies refuse summer league and some who agreed to go but then became disgruntled (because they didn't want to). Perhaps a dialog box pops up that gives an indicator before sending them. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 10-30-2006 at 03:16 PM.

10-31-2006, 11:38 PM	#19
Peregrine Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2001 Location: Cary, NC	One thing to add here, we probably need some more research to see if summer league will mostly help prospects with high upside, I've seen the same results others mentioned when I sent less talented players, it just didn't seem to make much of a difference.

11-01-2006, 07:13 AM	#21
Anthony Banned Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Astoria, NY, USA	he's gonna give an interview at Sportsdigs?

11-01-2006, 07:32 AM	#22
Ksyrup This guy has posted so much, his fingers are about to fall off. Join Date: Nov 2000 Location: In Absentia	I'm playing Cleveland in one of my two test leagues, and I probably should have sent Frye or Anderson to Summer League given the QB situation I have, but I sent Kamerion Wembley instead. At the time, he was rated 35/87. After Summer League and Training Camp, he's now rated 62/87. __________________ M's pitcher Miguel Batista: "Now, I feel like I've had everything. I've talked pitching with Sandy Koufax, had Kenny G play for me. Maybe if I could have an interview with God, then I'd be served. I'd be complete."

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