TDCB patch 1.20?

[Bee]

I've read that all the single player tweaks and features to TDCB are complete, but the patch is waiting for multiplayer.

Does this make any sense?

If this were an initial release I'd applaud the decision, but this is a patch. An initial release should be feature complete, so I'd understand delaying a release. But a patch? I would think it would make much more sense to release the single player patch and work on the multiplayer. If problems pop up in the single player game you can fix them and release that with the multiplayer patch.

There are also quite a few people that won't even use the multiplayer portion of the game (like me). I just don't see the reasoning behind this decision. I can wait for the patch, it won't kill me or anything. But I just don't understand what benefit doing things this way provides other than the possibility of having to upload an extra patch?

[moriarty]

I agree w/ ya Bee. They need to get the improvements out so I can get into the game before CM4 comes out. Has Arlie actually said that the single player improvements are complete (I've seen a lot of other references to it)?

If they are 'complete', but still undergoing rigorous beta testing, then I could understand it considering all the flack that they got with the intial release. What kills me more than delaying it for multiplayer, is that I think they were waiting to add the women teams as well. Ugh.

[Bee]

The post I saw was (I think) from Joe and he said they were complete (which I assume meant they have been tested). They were being held for multiplayer to release them all together in patch 1.20.

Edit:

Here's the quote (It was from Joe S.).

Second, all of the single-player tweaks we wanted to make in 1.20 are DONE. Hooray! Kudos to the beta team for a fine, fine job. We are currently testing multiplayer, and then we will be done.

Now, we've gone back and forth about whether we should go ahead and release 1.20 and then release multiplayer afterwards, or wait until multiplayer has been completed before releasing 1.20. We are sticking with the latter option for the time being.

[henry296]

After some protest on the TD boards, Joe has stated that they are reconsidering.

Todd

[Bee]

Ahh...good.

Thanks for the update Todd.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Well if its all true I hope they decide to release the update soon. I personally am not as concerned with multiplayer as much as making sure the changes made and additions such as career stats work fluently.

Of course if the other route was the plan I would have never let that slip.

[henry296]

For those interested, there is a poll on the TD message board about when to release the patch. Vote early and vote often.

Todd

[moriarty]

I just voted for early release (version 1.20, not Qwickshot)

[HornedFrog Purple]

It seems the release now voters are winning.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
It seems the release now voters are winning.

By a rather strong margin too.

Which begs a question -- how is it possible that .400 could have misread their customer base so badly?

Do they really believe that it's so heavily loaded toward multi-player? Clearly, the poll thread (and the other one which ended up being on the subject) indicates otherwise.

[Tasan]

I don't think its a matter of people not wanting Multiplay, but people wanting something that resembles college basketball first and foremost. Multi would be nice, but get the damn thing working right first.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by Tasan
I don't think its a matter of people not wanting Multiplay, but people wanting something that resembles college basketball first and foremost. Multi would be nice, but get the damn thing working right first.

Sorry 'bout that, I think I misstated what I intended to state.

I wasn't referring to whether anyone wanted multi-player, just whether or not it was priority one with them.

[HornedFrog Purple]

I think its more of a case of people wanting the engine tweaked good enough to where multiplayer would be feasible. In this case at least there would be a headstart on making sure this newest patch gets multiplayer more consistant.

I do want to try multiplayer when it comes out. It seems to be a fun idea.

[Anrhydeddu]

I wouldn't read too much into that. Most gamers, esp. those populating forums want any game NOW. Gamers are an impatient bunch by nature.

[moriarty]

I think it has to do with the fact that they also announced 'major improvements' in version 1.20. So most people just shelved the entire game until the patch is released, rather than just playing through until the next patch (there's another poll showing this somewhere over there).

The fact that most people are not even playing the game currently, probably has them overamped in anticipation for the new patch.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Bee
(which I assume meant they have been tested).

Heh. Bee make funnies.

[bbor]

Did they say when a workable version on my CPU will come out ?

[HornedFrog Purple]

The people have spoken. Word is 1.20 single-player will be released sometime today.

Boo-yah.

[JonInMiddleGA]

HFP beat me to it
http://www.400softwarestudios.com/board/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23953

[HornedFrog Purple]

Hehe its not everyday you get a new patch and get to use an obscure wrestling reference.

For the life of me I cant remember his valet's name though. Garvin was greatness.

[moriarty]

Ugh, I specifically asked not to have it released on Valentine's Day.

Girlfriend ... version 1.2 ... girlfriend ... version 1.2, I hate tough decisions.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by HornedFrog Purple
For the life of me I cant remember his valet's name though. Garvin was greatness.

Her name was Precious

Aka Patty Garvin, Jimmy's real-life wife.

[HornedFrog Purple]

Thats it. Shame on me.

I really didnt know that she was his actual wife though.

[The_herd]

From the TDCD forums:




TDCB 1.20 solo player update:

•Extensive tweaking to the Sim Engine to increase the effectiveness of inside players, decrease the number of threes and % of threes hit by average or worse shooters, improve numerous areas of stat accuracy and improve the AI coaching.
•Adjusted the PbP
•Tweaked Career Stability, to stop low prestige teams from increasing in cash too quickly
•Fixed International Windows Settings Issues for UK, Canada and Aussie Windows.
•Added Brackets for the ACT and Preseason Tournaments
•Adjusted Team Schedule Screen
•AI Coaches tailor strategies better to their teams
•Added Head Coach "Report Card"
•Added "History" section containing: Team, Head Coach, Tournament Histories, and a listing of "Distinguished alumni"
•Added Almanac option that includes Player Game, Season, and Career records, listed by Team, League and Nationally
•Added Individual Player Game Records to the Main Player Card.
•Added links to "mini" player cards in the PbP, Box Scores, Leader Screens, and Matchups Screen
•Game Matchup Screen will pop up if you click on a game in the schedule that has not been played
•Tweaked recruiting, AI teams will now focus more on needs, top recruits are now less likely to sign with low prestige schools, the overall talent level of the recruiting pool has been reduced (fewer 4 and 5 star guys).
•Assistant Coaches from good programs will leave to become head coaches. (Based on Ability, Ambition, and Openings avaialble)
•New Regional Rival Scheduling button during schedule. This will allow you to pick a regional rival and try to schedule that team for an available week for both of you.
•New Pre-season Scouting reports for each player on your roster.
•Careers Now Start Right before you select your scouting service in the offseason, you can now do your own Non-Conference Scheduling for the first season.
•Tweaked Polls to increase stability (*Note* they still may be a bit volitile in the start of the season especially if top teams lose a few in a row)
•Tweaked Firing logic, you can also see how well you're doing on your job via the Fan/Alumni Support grade on the Coaches Report Card (if your grade is low, get those resume's ready!)
•Cleaned up Interface
•Reduced the frequency of serious injuries (in new games)
•Cleaned up and added some new Player Images.
•Tweaked AI substitution logic for players who get in early foul trouble
•Tweaked All American selection process to reduce number of players from low level schools being selected.
•Tweaked AI use of Strategies and Offensive/Defensive Sets
•Released new Report Writer Version 1.50

Game Editor 1.14 Updates

•Changes to Injury Status will now be updated when a player is saved
•Letter grades will no longer change after each time saving. (Note - on the first time you save your changes they will be changed, but they should no longer change after that)
•CSV Import now gives you a "true" look at the players skill level
•Fixed Issue with Sub rates being messed up when positions were changed or CSV Import was used
•Coaches photos should now show up correctly in the editor
•Changing Seniors to Underclassmen, or vice versa should no longer mess up your number of scholarships

[korme]

ME WANT NOW!

[Bee]

It's available now.

[Anrhydeddu]

From Arlie:

Second, people have many different priorities for playing this game. Some people only care about the single-player, while others really only want to play the game when multiplayer is completed. There are others that simply want to run seasons and compare stats with a report writer, with an additional group that only wants to mimic the real NCAA by making accurate rosters and team sets. There are also many people that enjoy a combination of all of these gaming aspects. My goal is to try and make everyone in any of the above groups happy and enjoy the games.

What a refreshing concept.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by Bee
It's available now.

That's the good news.

First couple of feedback posts contain some bad news.

I can't check the thing out myself yet, gotta feed my kid first (damn those priorities), that's also bad news.

[vtbub]

Feed the kids.

If you coach your games, wait.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by vtbub
Feed the kids.

If you coach your games, wait.

That's what I gather. And if I find what I think I'll find when I get back, I may end up writing a post that'll go down in history.

[SirFozzie]

quick-simmer's dream.. the game is much improved... with one show stopper bug, the inability to change defenses. :/

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by SirFozzie
quick-simmer's dream.. the game is much improved... with one show stopper bug, the inability to change defenses. :/

Just what TD needed, another show-stopper.

And more importantly, another disappointment.

I'm to blame I guess, I gave 'em the benefit of the doubt & bought early.

I'm not sure which was a bigger mistake on my part though -- rolling the dice on the game at all, or not getting a refund while I still could.

[McSweeny]

ah well, bring on baseball season

[bbor]

How could they miss this problem?

[MizzouRah]

I passed on TD this time around, I'm sure next year will be much improved. Not to mention all the games I'm trying to fit in my schedule.

Todd

[FBPro]

Originally posted by bbor
How could they miss this problem?

You must have never tested software before, MUCH easier to talk about it and complain about it than to do it.

[bbor]

Originally posted by FBPro
You must have never tested software before, MUCH easier to talk about it and complain about it than to do it.

You are correct...i've never tested a game....But i have a car...and if i turn the key and nothing happens...i know something is wrong.

[SirFozzie]

In the defense of 400 (I seem to be saying that a lot).. one of the beta testers said it wasn't in the last beta sent out (the bug that is), so it should be a relatively simple fix.. I think Arlie will have something out tonight or tommorrow.

[daedalus]

Originally posted by FBPro
You must have never tested software before, MUCH easier to talk about it and complain about it than to do it.

It's a damn shame not everyone can be special enough to be in the game industry, ain't it?

If the question had been how the hell did they managed to miss the fact SW Timbuktu State's team colour is green-on-yellow, I can see a reason for that type of response. Given the fact that changing defense is somewhat a part of basketball, a question on how the hell they can manage to miss that is decently valid. Given the quote, "all of the single-player tweaks we wanted to make in 1.20 are DONE. Hooray! Kudos to the beta team for a fine, fine job" . . . I rather think it's even more valid.

Unless, of course, someone with more insight into the game industry and software testing can perhaps enlighten us a little bit more on why it isn't. Hopefully, with more than a single sentence we-are-special comment this time.

[korme]

I'm a quick simmer, so there are no problems on my end. I love the history!

I feel for you, Jon. I hope that if Arlie gets a patch out quickly (tomorrow) to fix the d-problem, you will reconsider.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by Shorty3281
I'm a quick simmer, so there are no problems on my end. I love the history!

I feel for you, Jon. I hope that if Arlie gets a patch out quickly (tomorrow) to fix the d-problem, you will reconsider.

I appreciate the sympathy. Honestly though, at this point, I've given up. Even if the fix was sitting in my e-mail as we speak, I have zero confidence in the game & zero doubt that other issues remain.

This is getting ugly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by couriers
This is getting ugly.

Actually couriers, this isn't ugly. This is just honest.

Whether it gets ugly remains to be seen I guess.

Originally posted by JonInMiddleGA
Actually couriers, this isn't ugly. This is just honest.

Whether it gets ugly remains to be seen I guess.

Hence, "getting" ugly

[INDalltheway]

I am a quick simmer too. So it really doesn't affect me. I haven't played the game much before I installed this patch. I pre ordered this game, and have been disappointed like everyone else. I believe that this patch has made this game a lot more playable. I hope the defense bug gets squashed (which it will) soon.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally posted by couriers
Hence, "getting" ugly

Doh, distinction understood now. My bad.

[cincyreds]

Arlie has already released patch 1.21!!!

The support for TDCB and OOTP are the reasons I keep coming back!!

[Aylmar]

Originally posted by daedalus
If the question had been how the hell did they managed to miss the fact SW Timbuktu State's team colour is green-on-yellow, I can see a reason for that type of response. Given the fact that changing defense is somewhat a part of basketball, a question on how the hell they can manage to miss that is decently valid. Given the quote, "all of the single-player tweaks we wanted to make in 1.20 are DONE. Hooray! Kudos to the beta team for a fine, fine job" . . . I rather think it's even more valid.

My first thought would be that they have a poorly designed suite of regression tests. (These are the tests that are run everytime a new build is done to ensure that things that were working in previous builds still work (as expected) in the current build). The other consideration is what the beta team actually focuses on when they are given a new build. New features? Improvements? Stuff that's been working since 1.10?

Beyond that, there are too many unknowns for us to speculate as to why the defect was missed. When they decided to release the single-player only version of the patch, did Arlie roll back any changes beyond the point where beta team had said that the single-player features were functioning properly? If he left a portion of the multi-player changes in (not suggesting he would, just bringing up a possibility), then one of those changes could have easily broken something that was working perfectly in the last round of beta tests. Actually, any minor code change could have easily been the culprit. Small things break the strangest features in places you don't expect.

I hope this makes sense. Hard to tell at 9:00 on a Saturday morning before I've had my caffiene.

[SirFozzie]

Originally posted by cincyreds
The Dallas Cowboys!! America's Team will rise again.

Sorry Cincy.. have to do it

Yes.. they will rise again.. as in..

"All Rise.. The Honorable Judge Tom Watkins presiding in this US Criminal Court.. the day of.."

[daedalus]

Originally posted by Aylmar
Beyond that, there are too many unknowns for us to speculate as to why the defect was missed. When they decided to release the single-player only version of the patch, did Arlie roll back any changes beyond the point where beta team had said that the single-player features were functioning properly? If he left a portion of the multi-player changes in (not suggesting he would, just bringing up a possibility), then one of those changes could have easily broken something that was working perfectly in the last round of beta tests. Actually, any minor code change could have easily been the culprit. Small things break the strangest features in places you don't expect.

Definitely a good answer and informative one.

Y'know, to be honest, the situation didn't bothered me one bit. Especially given the circumstances (Arles working with his customers and releasing the patch before he had intended to). And, Heck, anyone who codes know damn well, it could've just as easily been a missing semicolon or an unescaped quote (generally leads to hours of frustration searching for it and a minimum of 15 minutes of expletives AFTER I find it) as any "real" mistake on Arles' part. What I can't stand is sanctimonious assholes who feels it necessary to talk to down to and disrespect people who ask an honest question like "how did they miss that?", especially given the circumstances surrounding it ("It's done!").

I hope this makes sense. Hard to tell at 9:00 on a Saturday morning before I've had my caffiene.

Hmmmm. You're awake, it's 9AM . . . and you HAVEN'T had your caffeine?!?! Where is your priority!