FOF2K7: Lots more mentors???

Ben E Lou · 11-06-2006, 08:24 PM

Is it just me, or are there significantly more mentors in this version?

Axxon · 11-06-2006, 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Is it just me, or are there significantly more mentors in this version?

I've perceived the same thing but I never studied it before so it could be just a perception.

amdaily · 11-06-2006, 09:09 PM

I think there are. It was my understanding that a combo of leadership and intelligence resulted in mentors in 2K4. That doesn't seem to be the (sole?) case now as I see many rated in the 40's in the categories as mentors. Maybe a bug, maybe intentional, only Jim can say for sure.

yabanci · 11-06-2006, 09:10 PM

I haven't done a comparison, but I had the same impression.

cuervo72 · 11-06-2006, 09:51 PM

If there are, I'm wondering what the reasoning behind this is. I know that some players in MP leagues stick around solely because they are mentors. It seems like an increase in mentors would lead to this [unrealistic] practice becoming a bit rarer. It might also spur on the development of young players, which I think may have also been a topic of discussion at some point (though that might have been in the preseason debate). And if a larger portion of the league is middling where it comes to ratings, I could see teams overall getting younger quicker, while vets cycle through at a slightly faster rate.

Or, there might not be a change and I might just be throwing out nonsense theories.

General Mike · 11-06-2006, 09:57 PM

More mentors to cancel out the red flag players. Maybe.

Solecismic · 11-06-2006, 10:40 PM

I felt there should be more mentors, for exactly the reason cuervo specified. I found I signed three guys in IHOF solely for their mentor status. While making more of them won't change this behavior, it will end the practice of trading guys just to use as mentors, which seems very unrealistic.

sabotai · 11-06-2006, 10:44 PM

Question: Is the effect of mentors constant, or are some players better mentors than others?

M GO BLUE!!! · 11-06-2006, 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Solecismic

I felt there should be more mentors, for exactly the reason cuervo specified. I found I signed three guys in IHOF solely for their mentor status. While making more of them won't change this behavior, it will end the practice of trading guys just to use as mentors, which seems very unrealistic.

Thank you!

14ers · 11-09-2006, 10:35 PM

What you talkin 'bout Willis?

Everytime I start a new league there are not any mentors anywhere? Someone in my MP league said you have to wait until year 2 to start seeing mentors. Why no Mentors in the first year?

Is this a 'bug'?

3ric · 11-10-2006, 01:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

What you talkin 'bout Willis?

Everytime I start a new league there are not any mentors anywhere? Someone in my MP league said you have to wait until year 2 to start seeing mentors. Why no Mentors in the first year?

Is this a 'bug'?

No bug - FOF2k4 was that way too.

mrsimperless · 11-10-2006, 02:22 AM

What's odd is that the overall talent has decreased (as per your other thread SD) but thr number of mentors has increased. Perhaps the usefulness of mentors has been reudced in this version as well?

14ers · 11-10-2006, 02:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 3ric

No bug - FOF2k4 was that way too.

Why? Some kind of Flaw?

RedKingGold · 11-10-2006, 04:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

Why? Some kind of Flaw?

Nope, Mentors do not appear in a new league file until during the first off-season free agency.

Narcizo · 11-10-2006, 04:42 AM

Well, in that case then, yes there is a flaw. Why should there be no mentors in the first year and then suddenly a whole bunch show up in the second year? It doesn't make any sense. Hardly a show-stopper or anything worth fixing but still a flaw. Presumably there should be a mentor status flag in the initial player file.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 05:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Narcizo

Well, in that case then, yes there is a flaw. Why should there be no mentors in the first year and then suddenly a whole bunch show up in the second year? It doesn't make any sense. Hardly a show-stopper or anything worth fixing but still a flaw. Presumably there should be a mentor status flag in the initial player file.

I'd call it a design decision, or, if you must, likely a game-architecture limitation. We know that mentor status kicks in at the beginning of FA1. My guess is that since we don't start the game until the Preseason stage, that algorithm doesn't get a chance to get called in the first season.

14ers · 11-10-2006, 06:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I'd call it a design decision, or, if you must, likely a game-architecture limitation. We know that mentor status kicks in at the beginning of FA1.

This makes the start of the game even Stupider then.

I am already upset about having a GM sim where you are forced to start in the middle of an NFL "GM" season. Most NFL head coaches and GMs are hired after the Super Bowl, not after Training Camp is complete. Now, you tell me that because the creator makes you start after Free Agency is complete there are no mentors in the first year? That is just Stupid!!

Why can't the game be started after the Super Bowl like EA's Head Coach to avoid all these problems?

Narcizo · 11-10-2006, 06:12 AM

That was my guess as well. I'm not offering a criticism or saying that it should be "fixed", just pointing out that it is illogical viewed from within the game and, as such, a flaw.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 06:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

This makes the start of the game even Stupider then.

I am already upset about having a GM sim where you are forced to start in the middle of an NFL "GM" season. Most NFL head coaches and GMs are hired after the Super Bowl, not after Training Camp is complete. Now, you tell me that because the creator makes you start after Free Agency is complete there are no mentors in the first year? That is just Stupid!!

Why can't the game be started after the Super Bowl like EA's Head Coach to avoid all these problems?

If this bothers you THAT much, I suggest quick-simming year 1 and starting at the beginning of year 2. That being said, my personal preference would be that you just stick with EA Head Coach, and find a board where there's lots of talk about that game to post at.

14ers · 11-10-2006, 06:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

If this bothers you THAT much, I suggest quick-simming year 1 and starting at the beginning of year 2.

Yes, I know this is the 2nd time I have been told on this board to sim ahead a year to fix a problem I had with this game.

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

That being said, my personal preference would be that you just stick with EA Head Coach, and find a board where there's lots of talk about that game to post at.

Sheesh..... A little Touchy Feely arent we? The start date for this type of game is wrong! I guess since you can't defend your position it is just easier to make fun of people.

mrsimperless · 11-10-2006, 07:02 AM

Better yet, sim ahead 10 or 20 years so the talent pool evens out and you get a whole new universe.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 07:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

Sheesh..... A little Touchy Feely arent we? The start date for this type of game is wrong! I guess since you can't defend your position it is just easier to make fun of people.

I don't have a position to defend. Having no mentors for one year (a year in which I have no rookie draftees, to boot) is pretty much a non-issue to me. I don't care. What I find alternately humorous and annoying is that you've got your panties in such a wad over a non-issue that it warrants a mad-face, multiple "THIS IS STUPID!!!" rants, comparisons to NFL Head Coach, and what appears to be a flat-out lie:

Quote:

Originally Posted by You, on 10/27

One of my biggest complaints about FOF2004 was that coaches never really seemed to develop their skills.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...9&postcount=31

Quote:

Originally Posted by You, on 11/01, about FOF2007

This is my first FOF.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...30&postcount=3

Fascinating.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 07:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mrsimperless

Better yet, sim ahead 10 or 20 years so the talent pool evens out and you get a whole new universe.

The best way to go with ALL text sims, in my opinion.

CraigSca · 11-10-2006, 07:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

Yes, I know this is the 2nd time I have been told on this board to sim ahead a year to fix a problem I had with this game.

Sheesh..... A little Touchy Feely arent we? The start date for this type of game is wrong! I guess since you can't defend your position it is just easier to make fun of people.

I respectfully disagree. Complaining about the startpoint and the lack of mentors in year one and two is like saying, "Hey guys, great job with Mt. Rushmore, but I gotta tell ya, Teddy Roosevelt's left nostril is 5 inches too big."

While these two "issues" may not be what you hoped, when you actually play the game, you'll see that the depth and thought that went into the design blows the doors off of every other football simulation out there.

Btw, in the context of your writing, you mean "touchy" not "touchy feely". They mean two entirely different things.

14ers · 11-10-2006, 07:22 AM

This is "My" first FOF. Meaning this is the first time I owned an FOF game on "My" computer.

I have briefly played FOF2004 on a friends Laptop, but since I don't like text sims in general I never did buy it, or really got into it. My friend loves this game and is just like you in trying to defend the start date. After playing EA's NFL Head Coach I wanted to give this game another try and finally got around to purchasing it. I am hoping FOF multi player may change my mind about text sims. It sounds like I might of been better of starting with FM2007.

That still doesn't explain the idiotic start date of the game though.

***Shydog, I do not understand why you claim your team does not have any Rookies that need Mentors the first year?

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 07:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

My friend loves this game and is just like you in trying to defend the start date.

Is that you, jbmagic? Can you READ??? I'm not trying to defend it. I just don't CARE about when it is, since I'm quicksimming the starts to my careers anyway. As Craig said, it has VERY little impact, so I see no need to defend it or attack it. I just find the venom you have for such a tiny thing to be alternately funny and sad. [Morgado]shurg[/Morgado]

14ers · 11-10-2006, 07:45 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

comparisons to NFL Head Coach, and what appears to be a flat-out lie:

I guess I am going to need to know what you are referring to here? The only thing I said about EA's Head Coach was that it started after the Super Bowl. I also said that this is the time when most Head Coaches and General Managers begin their careers. Where is this flat-out lie: you are referring to?

And, I still don't have a clue as to why you claim your team does not have any drafted rookies when you start your career? My teams always have the rookies that were drafted in the 2006 draft.

mrsimperless · 11-10-2006, 07:48 AM

aaaaaaaand......

I'm spent.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 07:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

The only thing I said about EA's Head Coach was that it started after the Super Bowl. I also said that this is the time when most Head Coaches and General Managers begin their careers.

You also made a comment about the draft in it.

Quote:

Where is this flat-out lie: you are referring to?

YIt certainly appeared that in one place, you said that you didn't own FOF2K4, and in another, you said that you did. ou dismissed it as having played FOF2K4 on someone else's machine. Fair enough.

Quote:

And, I still don't have a clue as to why you claim your team does not have any drafted rookies when you start your career? My teams always have the rookies that were drafted in the 2006 draft.

I don't use default rosters. The guys on my team that are rookies aren't players that I drafted.

Subby · 11-10-2006, 07:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

Sheesh..... A little Touchy Feely arent we?

Yeah...that's SkyDog in a nutshell. Touchy Feely.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 07:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Subby

Yeah...that's SkyDog in a nutshell. Touchy Feely.

I wasn't even gonna go there.

14ers · 11-10-2006, 08:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

You also made a comment about the draft in it.

WOW, you must of read every post I have ever made here. I think you are confusing my posts in this thread with a post I made in another thread about EA's Head Coach and how I liked the "Live" draft feel of Head Coach.

This ends my rant on FOF's idiotic Start Date.

CraigSca · 11-10-2006, 08:07 AM

I guess I don't understand. What makes the start date "idiotic"? It's a design choice. You can say it's "poor" or even "ill-conceived", but I think using the term "idiotic" says more about you than the game.

I do, however, love your use of "must of". I'm going to have to use that one more often.

Subby · 11-10-2006, 08:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

WOW, you must of read every post I have ever made here.

They kind of stand out.

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 08:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

WOW, you must of read every post I have ever made here. I think you are confusing my posts in this thread with a post I made in another thread about EA's Head Coach and how I liked the "Live" draft feel of Head Coach.

I must of thought you might of been a troll, so I must of checked you out.

cuervo72 · 11-10-2006, 09:07 AM

Nevermind the fact that coaches do develop in FOF2k4. They usually get better up until a point, and then they go to pot when they get old.

11-06-2006, 09:51 PM	#5
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	If there are, I'm wondering what the reasoning behind this is. I know that some players in MP leagues stick around solely because they are mentors. It seems like an increase in mentors would lead to this [unrealistic] practice becoming a bit rarer. It might also spur on the development of young players, which I think may have also been a topic of discussion at some point (though that might have been in the preseason debate). And if a larger portion of the league is middling where it comes to ratings, I could see teams overall getting younger quicker, while vets cycle through at a slightly faster rate. Or, there might not be a change and I might just be throwing out nonsense theories. __________________ null Last edited by cuervo72 : 11-06-2006 at 09:52 PM.

11-09-2006, 10:35 PM	#10
14ers High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2006	What you talkin 'bout Willis? Everytime I start a new league there are not any mentors anywhere? Someone in my MP league said you have to wait until year 2 to start seeing mentors. Why no Mentors in the first year? Is this a 'bug'? __________________ I like the company I keep when I am alone. 'The Blonde Bomber' Last edited by 14ers : 11-09-2006 at 11:24 PM.

11-10-2006, 02:22 AM	#12
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	What's odd is that the overall talent has decreased (as per your other thread SD) but thr number of mentors has increased. Perhaps the usefulness of mentors has been reudced in this version as well? __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

11-10-2006, 07:02 AM	#21
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	Better yet, sim ahead 10 or 20 years so the talent pool evens out and you get a whole new universe. __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

11-10-2006, 07:22 AM	#25
14ers High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2006	This is "My" first FOF. Meaning this is the first time I owned an FOF game on "My" computer. I have briefly played FOF2004 on a friends Laptop, but since I don't like text sims in general I never did buy it, or really got into it. My friend loves this game and is just like you in trying to defend the start date. After playing EA's NFL Head Coach I wanted to give this game another try and finally got around to purchasing it. I am hoping FOF multi player may change my mind about text sims. It sounds like I might of been better of starting with FM2007. That still doesn't explain the idiotic start date of the game though. **Shydog, I do not understand why you claim your team does not have any Rookies that need Mentors the first year? __________________ I like the company I keep when I am alone. 'The Blonde Bomber' Last edited by 14ers : 11-10-2006 at 07:27 AM.*

11-06-2006, 09:09 PM	#3
amdaily College Prospect Join Date: Nov 2003	I think there are. It was my understanding that a combo of leadership and intelligence resulted in mentors in 2K4. That doesn't seem to be the (sole?) case now as I see many rated in the 40's in the categories as mentors. Maybe a bug, maybe intentional, only Jim can say for sure.

11-06-2006, 09:10 PM	#4
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	I haven't done a comparison, but I had the same impression.

11-06-2006, 09:57 PM	#6
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	More mentors to cancel out the red flag players. Maybe.

11-06-2006, 10:40 PM	#7
Solecismic Solecismic Software Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Canton, OH	I felt there should be more mentors, for exactly the reason cuervo specified. I found I signed three guys in IHOF solely for their mentor status. While making more of them won't change this behavior, it will end the practice of trading guys just to use as mentors, which seems very unrealistic.

11-06-2006, 10:44 PM	#8
sabotai General Manager Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: The Satellite of Love	Question: Is the effect of mentors constant, or are some players better mentors than others?

11-10-2006, 04:42 AM	#15
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Well, in that case then, yes there is a flaw. Why should there be no mentors in the first year and then suddenly a whole bunch show up in the second year? It doesn't make any sense. Hardly a show-stopper or anything worth fixing but still a flaw. Presumably there should be a mentor status flag in the initial player file.

11-10-2006, 06:12 AM	#18
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	That was my guess as well. I'm not offering a criticism or saying that it should be "fixed", just pointing out that it is illogical viewed from within the game and, as such, a flaw.

11-10-2006, 07:48 AM	#28
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	aaaaaaaand...... I'm spent. __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

11-10-2006, 08:07 AM	#33
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	I guess I don't understand. What makes the start date "idiotic"? It's a design choice. You can say it's "poor" or even "ill-conceived", but I think using the term "idiotic" says more about you than the game. I do, however, love your use of "must of". I'm going to have to use that one more often. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

11-10-2006, 09:07 AM	#36
cuervo72 Head Coach Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Maryland	Nevermind the fact that coaches do develop in FOF2k4. They usually get better up until a point, and then they go to pot when they get old. __________________ null

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