FOF2K7: Players retiring MUCH younger.

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 07:56 PM

Just compared two leagues. Current FOF2K7 mature league has 5 players of 15 years and up.

FOF2K4 mature league has 73 players with 15 years or more experience.

I'm having a hard time tracking down what is realistic, but obviously a very large shift was made here.

A few position comparisons:

RB: 12 backs in an FOF2K4 league with 10+ years of experience. 1 in FOF2K7
FB: 11 with 9+ years in FOF2K4. 2 in FOF2K7
WR: 16 with 12+ years vs. 2.
CB: 20+ with 12+ years vs. 1

SunDevil · 11-09-2006, 08:08 PM

I think it needs to be toned down some, there should be more older players I think.

molson · 11-09-2006, 08:13 PM

I just did a quick count on NFL.com's roster pages (which lists years experience). There are currently 13 players on NFL rosters with 15+ years experience (4 of those are kickers or punters). So the game seems to have gotten more accurate in this regard.

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 08:14 PM

A quick inspection of NFL rosters reveals that, by my count, 52 current players have 13 years of experience or more. I have 28 players in my FOF2K7 league with 13 or more.

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 08:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

I just did a quick count on NFL.com's roster pages (which lists years experience). There are currently 13 players on NFL rosters with 15+ years experience (4 of those are kickers or punters). So the game seems to have gotten more accurate in this regard.

I agree that it is better, but preliminary evidence would appear to indicate that it has swung a little too far in the other direction.

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 08:21 PM

Does this mean mass retirements are forthcoming with MP conversions?

yabanci · 11-09-2006, 08:32 PM

This is another one of the huge improvements in FOF2007. The retirement system is now working the way it's described in the help file's retirement article.

yabanci · 11-09-2006, 08:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

Does this mean mass retirements are forthcoming with MP conversions?

It does indeed. You will hear a big swishing sound as all the old players get sucked out of the universe, and it will be ugly for some teams.

JeeberD · 11-09-2006, 08:37 PM

Heh, a couple of my teams are veteran heavy. This could be BAD...

timmynausea · 11-09-2006, 08:39 PM

Yikes. This will take some time to get used to.

Joe · 11-09-2006, 08:41 PM

whack

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timmynausea

Yikes. This will take some time to get used to.

I just looked at some more NFL rosters. It's definitely *much* closer to reality than FOF2K4 was in this area, although I'm suspecting that it is a little tilted toward too-early retirements.

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeeberD

Heh, a couple of my teams are veteran heavy. This could be BAD...

Fairbanks could get CREAMED.

Galaxy · 11-09-2006, 08:47 PM

Ben,
Any updates to your Roster-building AI thread?

Ben E Lou · 11-09-2006, 08:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Galaxy

Ben,
Any updates to your Roster-building AI thread?

No. I've been looking at other things lately.

Vinatieri for Prez · 11-09-2006, 11:04 PM

I would like to think that Jim could monkey with the code on the conversion to avoid 8 guys on a team retiring in the very first season; maybe disabling the retirement decision in that first stage.

General Mike · 11-09-2006, 11:23 PM

What injury settings were used for each league?

14ers · 11-09-2006, 11:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I just looked at some more NFL rosters. It's definitely *much* closer to reality than FOF2K4 was in this area, although I'm suspecting that it is a little tilted toward too-early retirements.

I'd be willing to bet you are wrong and that in 20 years from now FOF2K4 is right about there being 73 players in the NFL with 15 years experience.

Getting out my crystal ball I can see 73 players with 15 years experience playing in the NFL in the year 2025 easily. Hell, I can see at least a handfull of 40 year olds starting at QB by then. There are a lot more players playing into their late 30s now, and add that to the fact that more players are comming out of college early and you get yourself a very Experienced league.

Narcizo · 11-10-2006, 02:01 AM

Giving up multiple picks for an aging McNabb is looking even less sensible now. Even if he wasn't getting injured all the time. He'd better win a ring this year.

mrsimperless · 11-10-2006, 02:12 AM

Are there any 50 year old kickers?

Ben E Lou · 11-10-2006, 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

I'd be willing to bet you are wrong and that in 20 years from now FOF2K4 is right about there being 73 players in the NFL with 15 years experience.

Getting out my crystal ball I can see 73 players with 15 years experience playing in the NFL in the year 2025 easily. Hell, I can see at least a handfull of 40 year olds starting at QB by then. There are a lot more players playing into their late 30s now, and add that to the fact that more players are comming out of college early and you get yourself a very Experienced league.

There's no evidence for that. The evidence (reflected in the switch from FOF2K4 fo FOF2K7) shows that the league is getting *younger*, not older.

14ers · 11-10-2006, 04:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SkyDog

I just looked at some more NFL rosters.

You do not believe players are playing longer in the NFL?

I was talking about the real NFL players and how we are seeing players play late into their 30s now. By the time 2025 rolls around we will probably see players in their 40s thanks to modern medicine.

Northwood_DK · 11-10-2006, 05:41 AM

Will the modern medicine not help the young players get even stronger and still give them an edge over the old players?

The numbers I found on the NFL homepage says that the average player (in 2003) was 26.5 years old. That’s up 0.4 years since 1987.

2003	Average height	Average weight	Average age	Average experience	Rookie & 1st year	Players age 30 and over
NFL average	6-1.5	245.2	26.5	4.3	10.6	10.3

CraigSca · 11-10-2006, 06:04 AM

By modern medicine, you mean 'roids, right?

14ers · 11-10-2006, 06:22 AM

I think modern medicine willl allow all players to maintain their peak levels longer.

14ers · 11-10-2006, 06:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CraigSca

By modern medicine, you mean 'roids, right?

No, not always.

There are some great alternatives to steroids out there. Nothing as effective, but those over the counter drugs are getting better every year.

50 years ago there was no such thing as creatine.

CraigSca · 11-10-2006, 07:18 AM

While it's common knowledge that medicine will only get better, allowing anyone anywhere to exceed at whatever profession for longer periods of time, there are other factors at work here.

One thing that's pretty standard across all professional sports is the fact that veterans, in general, are paid more than unproven talent. Yes, players will be able to play longer, but (especially with a salary cap) there will always be a counter-balance brought on by the need to save money.

molson · 11-10-2006, 10:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 14ers

You do not believe players are playing longer in the NFL?

I was talking about the real NFL players and how we are seeing players play late into their 30s now. By the time 2025 rolls around we will probably see players in their 40s thanks to modern medicine.

Players get faster and more powerful every year -i.e., the game is rewarding physical attributes more and more as time goes on. This favors younger players.

In the 1950s' for example, the average football player looked a lot more like a regular person than they do now. In that kind of environment, a 38-year old can more easily stay in shape and compete at a high level.

Based on personal observations, it sure seems like RBs are younger now than they ever were. How many remain elite past the age of 28 anymore? I remember running backs in previous decades hanging around a lot longer than that.

When you look at the VERY few players that are active in today's NFL with 15+ experience, the list is filled with anomalies - (Bret Farve should already be retired, Ted Washington is barely asked to move, etc.)

SunDevil · 11-10-2006, 10:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by molson

When you look at the VERY few players that are active in today's NFL with 15+ experience, the list is filled with anomalies - (Bret Farve should already be retired, Ted Washington is barely asked to move, etc.)

You are correct that maybe these playes should retire, but the fact that they are holding on, and are still available to a gm to sign if they want is the point.

gstelmack · 11-10-2006, 11:45 AM

I'll try to remember to dig out my copy of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 tonight. They have some numbers on career length in it.

11-09-2006, 08:13 PM	#3
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I just did a quick count on NFL.com's roster pages (which lists years experience). There are currently 13 players on NFL rosters with 15+ years experience (4 of those are kickers or punters). So the game seems to have gotten more accurate in this regard. Last edited by molson : 11-09-2006 at 08:13 PM.

11-09-2006, 08:14 PM	#4
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	A quick inspection of NFL rosters reveals that, by my count, 52 current players have 13 years of experience or more. I have 28 players in my FOF2K7 league with 13 or more. __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'! Last edited by Ben E Lou : 11-09-2006 at 08:47 PM.

11-09-2006, 08:21 PM	#6
Ben E Lou Morgado's Favorite Forum Fascist Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Greensboro, NC	Does this mean mass retirements are forthcoming with MP conversions? __________________ The media don't understand the kinds of problems and pressures 54 million come wit'!

11-09-2006, 08:37 PM	#9
JeeberD General Manager Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: The Town of Flower Mound	Heh, a couple of my teams are veteran heavy. This could be BAD... __________________ UTEP Miners!!! I solemnly swear to never cheer for TO

11-09-2006, 11:04 PM	#16
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I would like to think that Jim could monkey with the code on the conversion to avoid 8 guys on a team retiring in the very first season; maybe disabling the retirement decision in that first stage. Last edited by Vinatieri for Prez : 11-09-2006 at 11:05 PM.

11-09-2006, 08:32 PM	#7
yabanci College Benchwarmer Join Date: Jun 2003	This is another one of the huge improvements in FOF2007. The retirement system is now working the way it's described in the help file's retirement article.

11-09-2006, 08:39 PM	#10
timmynausea College Starter Join Date: Dec 2002	Yikes. This will take some time to get used to.

11-09-2006, 08:41 PM	#11
Joe Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2004 Location: Minneapolis	whack

11-09-2006, 08:47 PM	#14
Galaxy Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2005	Ben, Any updates to your Roster-building AI thread?

11-09-2006, 11:23 PM	#17
General Mike Pro Starter Join Date: Jun 2001 Location: The State of Rutgers	What injury settings were used for each league?

11-10-2006, 02:01 AM	#19
Narcizo Pro Rookie Join Date: Jan 2006	Giving up multiple picks for an aging McNabb is looking even less sensible now. Even if he wasn't getting injured all the time. He'd better win a ring this year.

11-10-2006, 02:12 AM	#20
mrsimperless College Prospect Join Date: Apr 2003	Are there any 50 year old kickers? __________________ "All I know is that smart women are hot. Susan Polgar beat me in 24 moves in a simultaneous exhbition. I slept with the scoresheet under my pillow." Off some dude's web site.

11-10-2006, 06:04 AM	#24
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	By modern medicine, you mean 'roids, right? __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

11-10-2006, 06:22 AM	#25
14ers High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2006	I think modern medicine willl allow all players to maintain their peak levels longer. __________________ I like the company I keep when I am alone. 'The Blonde Bomber'

11-10-2006, 07:18 AM	#27
CraigSca Pro Starter Join Date: Jul 2001 Location: Not Delaware - hurray!	While it's common knowledge that medicine will only get better, allowing anyone anywhere to exceed at whatever profession for longer periods of time, there are other factors at work here. One thing that's pretty standard across all professional sports is the fact that veterans, in general, are paid more than unproven talent. Yes, players will be able to play longer, but (especially with a salary cap) there will always be a counter-balance brought on by the need to save money. __________________ She loves you, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah! She loves you, yeah! how do you know? how do you know?

11-10-2006, 11:45 AM	#30
gstelmack Pro Starter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Cary, NC	I'll try to remember to dig out my copy of Pro Football Prospectus 2006 tonight. They have some numbers on career length in it. __________________ -- Greg -- Author of various FOF utilities

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