FOF2k7: Turf toe bug?

Front Office Midget · 11-21-2006, 05:06 AM

In my league, I noticed that the league's top RB hasn't played in the last 5 games, and I knew that he had been listed as probable with turf toe the last couple weeks. I also noticed I had a TE probable with turf toe on my team, so I tried to give him the start this week, and he didn't play at all. So I looked at the injury log, looked at every player with turf toe, and noticed that none of them have played at all since their minor foot injury. Anything I'm missing?

perez24 · 11-21-2006, 05:31 AM

I had heard that one of the great Steel Curtain LB's had to retire because of turf toe...honest.

I could see where in the grand scheme of things it's a minor injury, but it might one of those things were it's minor but the guy still can't play.

Do these players play in domes or on grass?

Vince · 11-21-2006, 05:38 AM

Well, if they can't play then they shouldn't be shown as "Probable." If this was just a periodic thing, where sometimes they played and sometimes they didn't, I'd say it was a design feature. But if it is every player, every time, then I think there's a problem.

Iceman99 · 11-21-2006, 09:30 AM

Turftoe is a major injury in the NFL that does require surgery to fix every now and then. I agree though the player should not be listed as probable. But even then there is a 75% chance (if you follow the NFL definition) that he will play.

It is concerning though that no one has played a down though.

dbd1963 · 11-21-2006, 09:38 AM

I too have had a player with a "probable" designation start but not show up on the stat sheet. I thought that it was possible that nobody threw at him (he was a highly rated CB) so I shrugged and moved on. Now I'm rethinking it. I can't remember if it was turf toe, though. It happened a while back in my career.

I realize this is very weak support for your observations, but I'm on the lookout now.

Doug5984 · 11-21-2006, 10:15 AM

I had this happen in one of my careers as well- with a QB. He was listed as probable with turf toe, and I tried to give him the start but he didn't play a down until he was completely healed. This was in the first version of the game. I haven't played enough of the new one to know if it is still there.

hokiesox · 11-21-2006, 10:23 AM

I have also seen this. I had a DT with turf toe listed as probable, return unknown, who sat out an entire season. I set him as my starter every week, but he didn't play a single down.

molson · 11-21-2006, 02:06 PM

I see this is my game too. And the AI certainly thinks these guys are going to play (they're active), but they don't play a down for anyone.

Dblbogey31 · 11-21-2006, 02:58 PM

Turf Toe ended the career of Jack Lambert and turned Primetime into Larry Brown. Still, the game should not list them as probable if they can't really go.

AlexB · 11-21-2006, 03:09 PM

OJ McDuffie barely played for three years at the end of his career through turf toe and eventually retired because of it, IIRC Oronde Gadsden also?

Pumpy Tudors · 11-21-2006, 03:33 PM

I don't know how hard this would be to track, but is this problem happening to every player in the league with turf toe?

Eaglesfan27 · 11-21-2006, 03:48 PM

Also, has anyone emailed support at solecismic about this? If not, I'm going to try to track it down in my league tonight (if it is occuring) and email him about it, just in case he misses this thread.

path12 · 11-21-2006, 04:52 PM

I just heard John Clayton on the radio today suggesting that if you want to really understand what NFL teams mean by 'turf toe' that you should take your big toe (or any toe for that matter) and fold it back onto the top of your arch.

kcchief19 · 11-21-2006, 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I don't know how hard this would be to track, but is this problem happening to every player in the league with turf toe?

That's my question. I have had this happen twice, both with the same player. I've been trying to confirm that it happens with someone other than this guy before I reported it as a bug. But if others are having the same issue, it does appear that turf toe keeps you out of the game even though you are healthy enough to play, in theory.

dbd1963 · 11-21-2006, 05:23 PM

Since it's only Turf Toe that does it, is it really likely to be a bug?

Maybe the game shouldn't list the guy as probable.

ShaftD · 11-21-2006, 05:45 PM

I too have this going on with a career started with 6.0b. I noticed after 5 regular season games a starting DE with Turf Toe (probable), incurred in the last week of preseason, has played 0 snaps. I tried changing playing time and the "play injured players" settings without success. At the very least, listing these guys as "probable" is wiggy.

molson · 11-21-2006, 06:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I don't know how hard this would be to track, but is this problem happening to every player in the league with turf toe?

People can go to the injury reports screen and sort league injuries by type, and see what week the injury occurred in. Every turf toe injury I've looked at (about 6-8), the guy hasn't played since the injury, has been listed as probable, and has been on the active roster. That's only 6-8, but others can very quickly track as well.

Eaglesfan27 · 11-21-2006, 10:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbd1963

Since it's only Turf Toe that does it, is it really likely to be a bug?

Maybe the game shouldn't list the guy as probable.

If the AI is trying to play these guys as probable, and isn't making suitable roster moves as a result, it is clearly a bug. I'm trying to see if I can track this in my league now.

dbd1963 · 11-21-2006, 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

If the AI is trying to play these guys as probable, and isn't making suitable roster moves as a result, it is clearly a bug. I'm trying to see if I can track this in my league now.

The world of computer programming is passing strange, but it just seems weird that it would only be Turf Toe that would trigger that problem if it were a bug. Doesn't it seem like the "probable" designation would govern whether he was going to play or not, and not the injury itself, unless there were extra code written?

Dblbogey31 · 11-22-2006, 01:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jari Rantanen's Shorts

OJ McDuffie barely played for three years at the end of his career through turf toe and eventually retired because of it, IIRC Oronde Gadsden also?

If I remember McDuffie's case correctly the Dolphins mis-diagnosed his foot injury initialy and then eventualy botched the surgery. He was never able to play again and he sued them over the issue. I can't recall how it all turned out. It was pretty sad at the time. McDuffie was a very promising young receiver.

Vinatieri for Prez · 11-22-2006, 03:14 AM

I did some research but also couldn't find any mention of the outcome. So, I am guessing it was settled. By the way, I believe he only sued the team doctor, not the Dolphins.

dberner30 · 11-22-2006, 10:15 AM

Go back a bit on this one....Think Barry Foster RB for the Steelers. This was about 10-12 yrs ago and he was my stud fantasy RB. He had turf toe and was probable for about 6 or 8 weeks. Each week they say he is going to play and each week that piece of shit was sitting. I think its one of those injuries where they never call it a big deal in terms of the reporting (probable v. out) but the guy never freaking plays. I hated that sissy Foster. I hate turf toe and any mention of it.

just thought a little turf toe history might ease the concern here.

molson · 11-22-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbd1963

The world of computer programming is passing strange, but it just seems weird that it would only be Turf Toe that would trigger that problem if it were a bug. Doesn't it seem like the "probable" designation would govern whether he was going to play or not, and not the injury itself, unless there were extra code written?

Well, every injury is coded differently, (or at least coded in a category of like injuries), because there are varying effects in terms of likelihood of re-injury, and level of performance while the injury still exists. As far as I know, Turf Toe is the only perpetually "probable" injury where the approximate time to heal is always "unknown". So its code would be unique.

kcchief19 · 11-22-2006, 10:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dbd1963

Since it's only Turf Toe that does it, is it really likely to be a bug?

Maybe the game shouldn't list the guy as probable.

That was my second question. I've seen plenty of guys who were listed as "probable" with turf toe but then don't play, so I've considered the possibility this was a design choice. I think it would make sense to have injuries that would lead a player to be listed as probable, but then on Sunday can't go.

Granted, it would be nice know this so you could make an adjustment to your roster. That's what makes me think this may be a bug.

QuikSand · 11-22-2006, 10:56 AM

I don't understand why there is a continued debate about whether this is a bug. Whether the player is incorrectly being listed as "probable" or the player is incorrectly being excluded from play despite his lineup slot, it's quite clearly not working as expected/intended. It's a bug.

dbd1963 · 11-22-2006, 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't understand why there is a continued debate about whether this is a bug. Whether the player is incorrectly being listed as "probable" or the player is incorrectly being excluded from play despite his lineup slot, it's quite clearly not working as expected/intended. It's a bug.

It's probably a bug, but there's a percentage chance that this is correct:

Quote:

/possibly/ this was a design choice. I think it would make sense to have injuries that would lead a player to be listed as probable, but then on Sunday can't go.

My confidence in that point is modified by this information, though:

Quote:

every injury is coded differently, (or at least coded in a category of like injuries), because there are varying effects in terms of likelihood of re-injury, and level of performance while the injury still exists. As far as I know, Turf Toe is the only perpetually "probable" injury where the approximate time to heal is always "unknown". So its code would be unique.

If that's true, then it makes sense that just this one injury could be bugged.

timmynausea · 11-22-2006, 12:06 PM

I actually reported this in the bug thread a few weeks ago, though at the time I didn't realize it was specific to Turf Toe. In my case, I could get my injured QB to play by setting the "play injured player" setting over 67. Anything less than that and the game would yank him after 1 pass.

wade moore · 11-22-2006, 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't understand why there is a continued debate about whether this is a bug. Whether the player is incorrectly being listed as "probable" or the player is incorrectly being excluded from play despite his lineup slot, it's quite clearly not working as expected/intended. It's a bug.

Couldn't agree with you more.

JeffW · 12-10-2006, 09:11 PM

Does Turf Toe ever heal? My backup 40/40 pass rusher DE is doubtful with turf toe and I already lost my starter. If I don't play the 40/40 backup, I have to start a 23/44 run stopper.

Front Office Midget · 12-11-2006, 03:05 AM

Yeah eventually it heels.

perez24 · 12-11-2006, 01:51 PM

It usually heals after you choose not to re-sign the guy.

MizzouRah · 12-11-2006, 02:43 PM

It's like the ol' Hamstring injury.

gmoses · 12-24-2006, 11:19 AM

Had a top FL with turf toe for quite a while. On depth chart screen he would be in the starting position but would never play.

Today I found I could get him to play by using the view screen before each individual play. Just view the play and substitute him in from that screen.

I did this for 7 or 8 plays in a game. After the game he was healed??

Coincidence??

11-21-2006, 05:38 AM	#3
Vince Pro Starter Join Date: Aug 2001 Location: Willow Glen, CA	Well, if they can't play then they shouldn't be shown as "Probable." If this was just a periodic thing, where sometimes they played and sometimes they didn't, I'd say it was a design feature. But if it is every player, every time, then I think there's a problem. __________________ Every time a Dodger scores a run, an angel has its wings ripped off by a demon, and is forced to tearfully beg the demon to cauterize the wounds.The demon will refuse, and the sobbing angel will lie in a puddle of angel blood and feathers for eternity, wondering why the Dodgers are allowed to score runs.That’s not me talking: that’s science. McCoveyChronicles.com.

11-21-2006, 03:09 PM	#10
AlexB Pro Starter Join Date: Nov 2004 Location: Newbury, England	OJ McDuffie barely played for three years at the end of his career through turf toe and eventually retired because of it, IIRC Oronde Gadsden also? __________________ 'A song is a beautiful lie', Idlewild, Self Healer. When you're smiling, the whole world smiles with you. Sports!

11-21-2006, 03:33 PM	#11
Pumpy Tudors Bounty Hunter Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Pittsburgh, PA	I don't know how hard this would be to track, but is this problem happening to every player in the league with turf toe? __________________ No, I am not Batman, and I will not repair your food processor.

11-21-2006, 03:48 PM	#12
Eaglesfan27 Hall Of Famer Join Date: Nov 2002 Location: New Jersey	Also, has anyone emailed support at solecismic about this? If not, I'm going to try to track it down in my league tonight (if it is occuring) and email him about it, just in case he misses this thread. __________________ Retired GM of the eNFL 2007 Super Bowl Champion Philadelphia Eagles (19-0 record.) GM of the WOOF 2006 Doggie Bowl Champion Atlantic City Gamblers. GM of the IHOF 2019 and 2022 IHOF Bowl Champion Asheville Axemen.

11-21-2006, 04:52 PM	#13
path12 Coordinator Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle, WA	I just heard John Clayton on the radio today suggesting that if you want to really understand what NFL teams mean by 'turf toe' that you should take your big toe (or any toe for that matter) and fold it back onto the top of your arch. __________________ We have always been at war with Eastasia.

11-21-2006, 05:31 AM	#2
perez24 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000	I had heard that one of the great Steel Curtain LB's had to retire because of turf toe...honest. I could see where in the grand scheme of things it's a minor injury, but it might one of those things were it's minor but the guy still can't play. Do these players play in domes or on grass?

11-21-2006, 09:30 AM	#4
Iceman99 n00b Join Date: Jun 2006 Location: Florida	Turftoe is a major injury in the NFL that does require surgery to fix every now and then. I agree though the player should not be listed as probable. But even then there is a 75% chance (if you follow the NFL definition) that he will play. It is concerning though that no one has played a down though.

11-21-2006, 09:38 AM	#5
dbd1963 High School JV Join Date: Jun 2006	I too have had a player with a "probable" designation start but not show up on the stat sheet. I thought that it was possible that nobody threw at him (he was a highly rated CB) so I shrugged and moved on. Now I'm rethinking it. I can't remember if it was turf toe, though. It happened a while back in my career. I realize this is very weak support for your observations, but I'm on the lookout now.

11-21-2006, 10:15 AM	#6
Doug5984 College Benchwarmer Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Louisiana	I had this happen in one of my careers as well- with a QB. He was listed as probable with turf toe, and I tried to give him the start but he didn't play a down until he was completely healed. This was in the first version of the game. I haven't played enough of the new one to know if it is still there.

11-21-2006, 10:23 AM	#7
hokiesox n00b Join Date: Aug 2005	I have also seen this. I had a DT with turf toe listed as probable, return unknown, who sat out an entire season. I set him as my starter every week, but he didn't play a single down.

11-21-2006, 02:06 PM	#8
molson General Manager Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: The Mountains	I see this is my game too. And the AI certainly thinks these guys are going to play (they're active), but they don't play a down for anyone.

11-21-2006, 02:58 PM	#9
Dblbogey31 n00b Join Date: Mar 2005	Turf Toe ended the career of Jack Lambert and turned Primetime into Larry Brown. Still, the game should not list them as probable if they can't really go.

11-21-2006, 05:23 PM	#15
dbd1963 High School JV Join Date: Jun 2006	Since it's only Turf Toe that does it, is it really likely to be a bug? Maybe the game shouldn't list the guy as probable.

11-21-2006, 05:45 PM	#16
ShaftD n00b Join Date: Sep 2001 Location: Ohio	I too have this going on with a career started with 6.0b. I noticed after 5 regular season games a starting DE with Turf Toe (probable), incurred in the last week of preseason, has played 0 snaps. I tried changing playing time and the "play injured players" settings without success. At the very least, listing these guys as "probable" is wiggy.

11-22-2006, 03:14 AM	#21
Vinatieri for Prez College Starter Join Date: Feb 2003 Location: Seattle	I did some research but also couldn't find any mention of the outcome. So, I am guessing it was settled. By the way, I believe he only sued the team doctor, not the Dolphins.

11-22-2006, 10:15 AM	#22
dberner30 n00b Join Date: Sep 2004 Location: KS	Go back a bit on this one....Think Barry Foster RB for the Steelers. This was about 10-12 yrs ago and he was my stud fantasy RB. He had turf toe and was probable for about 6 or 8 weeks. Each week they say he is going to play and each week that piece of shit was sitting. I think its one of those injuries where they never call it a big deal in terms of the reporting (probable v. out) but the guy never freaking plays. I hated that sissy Foster. I hate turf toe and any mention of it. just thought a little turf toe history might ease the concern here.

11-22-2006, 10:56 AM	#25
QuikSand lolzcat Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Annapolis, Md	I don't understand why there is a continued debate about whether this is a bug. Whether the player is incorrectly being listed as "probable" or the player is incorrectly being excluded from play despite his lineup slot, it's quite clearly not working as expected/intended. It's a bug.

11-22-2006, 12:06 PM	#27
timmynausea College Starter Join Date: Dec 2002	I actually reported this in the bug thread a few weeks ago, though at the time I didn't realize it was specific to Turf Toe. In my case, I could get my injured QB to play by setting the "play injured player" setting over 67. Anything less than that and the game would yank him after 1 pass.

12-10-2006, 09:11 PM	#29
JeffW High School Varsity Join Date: Apr 2005	Does Turf Toe ever heal? My backup 40/40 pass rusher DE is doubtful with turf toe and I already lost my starter. If I don't play the 40/40 backup, I have to start a 23/44 run stopper.

12-11-2006, 03:05 AM	#30
Front Office Midget High School Varsity Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Saint Paul, MN	Yeah eventually it heels.

12-11-2006, 01:51 PM	#31
perez24 Mascot Join Date: Oct 2000	It usually heals after you choose not to re-sign the guy.

12-11-2006, 02:43 PM	#32
MizzouRah Hall Of Famer Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Troy, Mo	It's like the ol' Hamstring injury.

12-24-2006, 11:19 AM	#33
gmoses n00b Join Date: Nov 2006	Had a top FL with turf toe for quite a while. On depth chart screen he would be in the starting position but would never play. Today I found I could get him to play by using the view screen before each individual play. Just view the play and substitute him in from that screen. I did this for 7 or 8 plays in a game. After the game he was healed?? Coincidence??

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