iTunes - I don't get it

[AgustusM]

OK - I have owned about 6 different MP3 players and none of them have been an IPod. I have a big problem with how restrictive the whole ITunes/IPod thing is,so I have always chose something different and never missed anything.

however, this damn IPhone thing has me salivating - there is so much about that device that is better then anything else out there.

my question is why am I the only one that notices how bad ITunes sucks, especially as a music library???

is it because I haven't taken the time to learn it?

is it because it really sucks, and all of the ILemmings don't know better?

On WMP or Yahoo Jukebox or many of the other players it is very easy to filter your library by artist, genre, rating, playlist - also the look and inclusion of album art is a big plus.

every time I fire up a version of ITunes all I get is a big long list of songs without filters or art in a cold 1995 sort of look.

not to mention the I only work with IPod thing.

someone please enlighten me.

[wade moore]

Yeah, you need to learn iTunes ..

A) It includes album art. It used to be just be on what you purchased, but now if you import a CD it finds the album art automatically. If you're not seeing album artwork, go to View -> Show Artwork

B) You need to learn about "Smart Playlists". Instead of allowing filtering in the main library, it uses these very dynamic smart playlists. Then you can select the playlists or in "party shuffle" (a very underrated feature IMO) you can choose which playlist you are using. Whatever you set for the filter on the smart playlists, they automatically get added to as you add music.

I personally find the immediate access to the smart playlists (consider them stored filters) to be far superior than having to build my filter every time i want to use it or to have to add to playlists as i add music.

[cartman]

iTunes is only restrictive if you purchase from the iTunes store. You can import your own MP3s on all you want. I have an iPod that I got for free from HP a couple of years ago, and I've never purchased anything from the iTunes store. iTunes is simply the program that transfers the files to the iPod, organizes your playlist, and is also the interface to the iTunes store, if you choose to purchase any songs from them.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by cartman

iTunes is only restrictive if you purchase from the iTunes store. You can import your own MP3s on all you want. I have an iPod that I got for free from HP a couple of years ago, and I've never purchased anything from the iTunes store. iTunes is simply the program that transfers the files to the iPod, organizes your playlist, and is also the interface to the iTunes store, if you choose to purchase any songs from them.

and I have done that (import my mp3's)- but it is still restrictive in the sense that it will only work with IPods - although I understand there is a law suit that may change that.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

and I have done that (import my mp3's)- but it is still restrictive in the sense that it will only work with IPods - although I understand there is a law suit that may change that.

Your use of pronouns here is confusing me. Do you mean that iTunes will not import directly into another mp3 player? If so - does WinAmp? Don't most other MP3 players work more as pure Hard Drives? You just transfer to them from a directory or something?

[Draft Dodger]

I resisted iTunes for a long time, sticking with trusty old Winamp. As time went on, I found I was using iTunes more and more, and now I don't think Winamp is even installed on my PC. I even do a lot of my CD burning in it instead of Nero.

definitely a learning curve, definitely has some drawbacks...but overall very useable

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Your use of pronouns here is confusing me. Do you mean that iTunes will not import directly into another mp3 player? If so - does WinAmp? Don't most other MP3 players work more as pure Hard Drives? You just transfer to them from a directory or something?

ITunes will only sych with IPod's

other players for example WMP11 (which is far from perfect) will sync wiht almost any MP3 player as will Yahoo Jukebox and a few others.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

and I have done that (import my mp3's)- but it is still restrictive in the sense that it will only work with IPods - although I understand there is a law suit that may change that.

I misread your post. I thought you might have been under the impression that an iPod can only play songs bought from the iTunes store. I have had quite a few people tell me that they thought that was a restriction of iTunes and that was why they wouldn't buy an iPod.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

ITunes will only sych with IPod's

other players for example WMP11 (which is far from perfect) will sync wiht almost any MP3 player as will Yahoo Jukebox and a few others.

Ok, so you're stretching beyond my knowledge a bit cause I abandoned WinAmp quite some time ago.. but..

Don't most of these other mp3 players sync to a folder either via the device itself or some proprietory software? Meaning you could just sync to whatever folder your iTunes MP3's are stored in?

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

On WMP or Yahoo Jukebox or many of the other players it is very easy to filter your library by artist, genre, rating, playlist - also the look and inclusion of album art is a big plus.

every time I fire up a version of ITunes all I get is a big long list of songs without filters or art in a cold 1995 sort of look.

Edit->Show Browser

And in iTunes 7 there are just three little icons at the top to change view modes.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by cartman

I misread your post. I thought you might have been under the impression that an iPod can only play songs bought from the iTunes store. I have had quite a few people tell me that they thought that was a restriction of iTunes and that was why they wouldn't buy an iPod.

quoted for truth.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ok, so you're stretching beyond my knowledge a bit cause I abandoned WinAmp quite some time ago.. but..

Don't most of these other mp3 players sync to a folder either via the device itself or some proprietory software? Meaning you could just sync to whatever folder your iTunes MP3's are stored in?

You could do that, but you'd lose any playlists or iTunes specific features you might take advantage of.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by cartman

You could do that, but you'd lose any playlists or iTunes specific features you might take advantage of.

Valid point.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ok, so you're stretching beyond my knowledge a bit cause I abandoned WinAmp quite some time ago.. but..

Don't most of these other mp3 players sync to a folder either via the device itself or some proprietory software? Meaning you could just sync to whatever folder your iTunes MP3's are stored in?

My understanding is that ITunes will not sych with any hardware other then IPod's - in fact they have been sued first by a few foreign countries and most recently my some gal in the US.

hxxp://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9006985

hxxp://playlistmag.com/news/2006/08/01/nordic/index.php


I do now know if they are "ways around" this as there are in so many other things involving MP3's.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

My understanding is that ITunes will not sych with any hardware other then IPod's - in fact they have been sued first by a few foreign countries and most recently my some gal in the US.

hxxp://www.computerworld.com/action/article.do?command=viewArticleBasic&articleId=9006985

hxxp://playlistmag.com/news/2006/08/01/nordic/index.php


I do now know if they are "ways around" this as there are in so many other things involving MP3's.

I would have to understand how other devices sync...

What I'm saying is there is nothing inherit in MP3's in iTunes that keep you from synching them to a non-iPod, you just can't do it through iTunes..

FWIW, it seems absurd that you could sue to force iTunes to synch directly to devices besides the iPod.

[AgustusM]

Originally Posted by wade moore

FWIW, it seems absurd that you could sue to force iTunes to synch directly to devices besides the iPod.

I agree with you on that, but then again I think 90% of what people sue over is absurd, and it never seems to stop anyone.

[Coder]

I have a few gripes with iTunes, despite being in love with my 80 Gb iPod.. after having used Winamp for a long time, the leap to iTunes makes me feel a bit.. eh.. restricted.. I dislike having to import every mp3-file into the iTunes library only to listen to it once, or twice..

I think iTunes is a resource hog.. just browsing in Firefox while listening to songs in iTunes sometimes makes the song "jump".

I get frustrated when I have to create playlists just to listen to a few select songs.

Since I have a massive library of mp3-songs (I've mp3ed just about every CD I have), I don't want all of them to be transferred to my iPod.. now, I can't simply "copy over" the files I want on the iPod, but I have to create playlists to transfer first.

Basically, there are all these little things that are frustrating me.. these were just a few examples.. as I said, I love the iPod, but it's definately not "perfect".. I often feel like it's dumbed down a bit..

[BrianD]

While we are discussing iTunes issues, is it possible to easily re-import MP3s? I've realized that I have a number of songs with bad ID3 tags, but I find it easier to fix them with a different program. The only way I have found to get the new tag info into iTunes is to delete the songs and re-import. Is there a way to just re-scan folders that have already been imported?

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by BrianD

While we are discussing iTunes issues, is it possible to easily re-import MP3s? I've realized that I have a number of songs with bad ID3 tags, but I find it easier to fix them with a different program. The only way I have found to get the new tag info into iTunes is to delete the songs and re-import. Is there a way to just re-scan folders that have already been imported?

not that i've found

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by BrianD

While we are discussing iTunes issues, is it possible to easily re-import MP3s? I've realized that I have a number of songs with bad ID3 tags, but I find it easier to fix them with a different program. The only way I have found to get the new tag info into iTunes is to delete the songs and re-import. Is there a way to just re-scan folders that have already been imported?

just import the whole folder - it will only add the "new" (fixed) songs.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by Coder

Since I have a massive library of mp3-songs (I've mp3ed just about every CD I have), I don't want all of them to be transferred to my iPod.. now, I can't simply "copy over" the files I want on the iPod, but I have to create playlists to transfer first.

If you choose to "manually manage" songs, you can choose what songs from the library to transfer to your ipod. In fact, if you go over your GB limit on the ipod, you have to do this. You simply drag the music files from the library to the ipod icon on the left.

Just realize that if you ever decide to sync up again with the library in the future, it will do just that and if you have since deleted/moved songs from itunes music folder, those will come off the ipod.

[Coder]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

If you choose to "manually manage" songs, you can choose what songs from the library to transfer to your ipod. In fact, if you go over your GB limit on the ipod, you have to do this. You simply drag the music files from the library to the ipod icon on the left.

I know, and this is what I do.. but as far as I can see, I first have to create a playlist for said songs before I can transfer them. This is the part that I find a bit unnecessary.

[SackAttack]

Not true, sir. My mother has filled something like 30% of her iPod Nano with songs without creating any playlists whatsoever. Just drag and drop directly to the iPod icon.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yep. You don't need to create a playlist. Just drag and drop when on "manual manage."

[cthomer5000]

Geez, there are like a million itunes myths in this thread... where to begin?

my question is why am I the only one that notices how bad ITunes sucks, especially as a music library???

What? It's an outstanding library system, and I was using for about 18 months with a creative zen before i even owned and ipod. The ability to sort by basically any criteria, search within composer names, notes, create dynamically updating playlistes (everything from 1985, everything that is country, every i imported in the last 4 weeks, etc), hasn't been beaten by anything else i've seen.

On WMP or Yahoo Jukebox or many of the other players it is very easy to filter your library by artist, genre, rating, playlist - also the look and inclusion of album art is a big plus.

every time I fire up a version of ITunes all I get is a big long list of songs without filters or art in a cold 1995 sort of look.

You can sort by any criteria itunes has, and there are at least 20+ to my knowledge. The interface is customizable. If you want nothing but artist name, song name, album name, that's all you'll see. If you want song duration, track number, bit rate, your rating, times played, date last played, date added, etc... it's all available.

Itunes features album art in the newest version and will automatically acquire it for you as well. The biggest thing is that the view is quite customizable, some people might open it up go "this sucks" and close it. Sounds like you may have done that at some point.

ITunes will only sych with IPod's

This is definitely true on PC, but i know that on the MAC it can sync with some other 3rd party players as well, though im not sure if that is through 3rd party plug-ins or not. I just know that my old model of MP3 player could sync with a MAC, and it frustrated me to know i couldnt do it on pc.

Quote:


You could do that, but you'd lose any playlists or iTunes specific features you might take advantage of.

But without an ipod, i think wade is saying it's easy to use itunes and still sync your player to the main folder without missing any music. However, you are correct in saying playlists will be an issue.

I think iTunes is a resource hog.. just browsing in Firefox while listening to songs in iTunes sometimes makes the song "jump".

I do think the newer versions uses noticeably more memory, but this sounds more like your PC. I really do an insane amount of shit while using iTunes on my main comp without issue.


Since I have a massive library of mp3-songs (I've mp3ed just about every CD I have), I don't want all of them to be transferred to my iPod.. now, I can't simply "copy over" the files I want on the iPod, but I have to create playlists to transfer first.

This isn't true. If you want to manually manage your music, you can, but obviously it basically defeats the entire point of the system. And personally, i cant imagine not having a player big enough to fit all my stuff. The point of the portability of the player (to me) is having ALL of my music on hand at ALL times). But obviously, this isn't a view held by everyone.

While we are discussing iTunes issues, is it possible to easily re-import MP3s? I've realized that I have a number of songs with bad ID3 tags, but I find it easier to fix them with a different program. The only way I have found to get the new tag info into iTunes is to delete the songs and re-import. Is there a way to just re-scan folders that have already been imported?

How about simply right-clicking anything you're trying to change, select "get info" and change the fields there. You can also change a bunch at once by highlighitng them all and doing the same. Or you can change all the main fields directly by simply clicking on them right on the main view. I'm crazy anal about the details of my music, so i've used itunes to edit thousand of tags, easily.

[wade moore]

ct speaks the truth.

And for those that don't realize, I know ct has an ass-load of music on his PC.

[Coder]

I think iTunes is a resource hog.. just browsing in Firefox while listening to songs in iTunes sometimes makes the song "jump".

I do think the newer versions uses noticeably more memory, but this sounds more like your PC. I really do an insane amount of shit while using iTunes on my main comp without issue.

I've got a year old 3800 AMD with a gig of ram.. not state of the art by any means, but just running iTunes and Firefox shouldn't cause this to happen. Running iTunes in the background when playing, for example, WoW, just isn't an option.. Winamp requires FAR less resources and does a heck of a job both with the audio-replay and the music library.

Granted it doesn't have all the nifty connections to the iTunes store or the "smart" playlists, or the album covers, but for just replaying audio on a system designed to use other stuff with the music being a "background" thingy, Winamp wins hands down due to the low resource usage.

Since I have a massive library of mp3-songs (I've mp3ed just about every CD I have), I don't want all of them to be transferred to my iPod.. now, I can't simply "copy over" the files I want on the iPod, but I have to create playlists to transfer first.

This isn't true. If you want to manually manage your music, you can, but obviously it basically defeats the entire point of the system. And personally, i cant imagine not having a player big enough to fit all my stuff. The point of the portability of the player (to me) is having ALL of my music on hand at ALL times). But obviously, this isn't a view held by everyone.

Exactly, this isn't a view held by everyone. I dislike how iTunes seems to want to decide for me. Having had an iRiver for many years before I had the iPod, and being a "computer-person", I like having control over what's on my player. I want to set up "directory"-structures that aren't based on playlists.

For example, I ran into a problem when converting a CD Audiobook to mp3. When putting it on my iPod I had all sorts of problems. I had to manually edit each mp3 (660 mp3s for Jonathan Strange and Mr Norell) to give them a new file-extension, I had to edit each mp3-file's tags rather than just letting iTunes work with the filenames (which were lazily named 1,2,3,4,5 etc).

All this to get it categorized as and audio-book in iTunes to start with. Why couldn't they just let decide for myself which files to "drop" in the Audio-book category?

On my iRiver I had a directory called Audiobooks, under that directory I created a new directory for each book and then just copied all the files and sorted by filename.

Like I've mentioned.. the main thing I dislike about iTunes, other than the resource-issue, is that it feels so "simplified".. iTunes doesn't allow me to take out the turns..

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Coder

I've got a year old 3800 AMD with a gig of ram.. not state of the art by any means, but just running iTunes and Firefox shouldn't cause this to happen. Running iTunes in the background when playing, for example, WoW, just isn't an option.. Winamp requires FAR less resources and does a heck of a job both with the audio-replay and the music library.

I think this has to be something with your system. I have a 2.79 Ghz Pentium with a gig of ram and I run Firefox, Internet Explorer, iTunes, Multiple instances of FOF2k7, Adobe Photoshop, and Excel all at the same time without any problems with my songs playing or any other programs having problems.

[cthomer5000]

I routinely (and i mean that in the actual sense) run the following at the same time (two monitor setup)

Itunes (actively playing music on shuffle from my entire library)
2 instances of Firefox open with 4-8 tabs each
Internet Explorer (there are about 5 sites i cannot get to work properly in firefox, so i have this kicking around))
Paint Shop Pro
Excel
Cool Edit
Powerpoint
AIM with 4-5 open and active chat windows
...all while playing FIFA 07 in full screen mode

And the only time i have any audio/slowdown issue is the when coming into or out of FIFA, it makes the audio kind of "hiccup." But zero slowdown issues.

[Daimyo]

No way iTunes should be causing the kid of slow downs you describe with that hardware. What sort of processor and memory utilization does it show in task manager?

[BrianD]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

While we are discussing iTunes issues, is it possible to easily re-import MP3s? I've realized that I have a number of songs with bad ID3 tags, but I find it easier to fix them with a different program. The only way I have found to get the new tag info into iTunes is to delete the songs and re-import. Is there a way to just re-scan folders that have already been imported?

How about simply right-clicking anything you're trying to change, select "get info" and change the fields there. You can also change a bunch at once by highlighitng them all and doing the same. Or you can change all the main fields directly by simply clicking on them right on the main view. I'm crazy anal about the details of my music, so i've used itunes to edit thousand of tags, easily.

That works great for individual files, but not so well for large blocks of files. I had a bunch of CDs by the same artist incorrectly ripped with bad file names and no album tag. There was no way I wanted to edit each file and add all of the info to each individual file. I used ID3-TagIt to go through the directory structures and add all of the tag info, then had to delete all of the files (from that artist) from my iTunes library and re-import. I've tried importing CDs over the top of themselves, but I always end up with two copies of the CD on my iPod.

[Easy Mac]

Originally Posted by BrianD

That works great for individual files, but not so well for large blocks of files. I had a bunch of CDs by the same artist incorrectly ripped with bad file names and no album tag. There was no way I wanted to edit each file and add all of the info to each individual file. I used ID3-TagIt to go through the directory structures and add all of the tag info, then had to delete all of the files (from that artist) from my iTunes library and re-import. I've tried importing CDs over the top of themselves, but I always end up with two copies of the CD on my iPod.

All you have to do is retag in a different program (don't change file names, just the tags, I use MediaMonkey, it will download tag info from Amazon, including album art). Then, in Itunes, right click and select "Get info". It will update the tag to whatever you changed it to in the other program. Then just either click next, or hit the down arrow key while still in the "Get Info" main tab, then just use the arrows until "Next" is highlighted. From there just hold enter until Itunes stops at the last song in the list. All of the tags are changed automatically (though I swear it has occassionally missed a file or two).

Also, Itunes just got to 7.1. The only major addition is a full screen "cover flow", but man does it look gorgeous. I'm sitting on my bed using my media center remote to flip through covers.

[ISiddiqui]

I'll echo what Coder says about iTunes memory usage. It doesn't skip or anything, but looking at my Vista sidebar plugin for processor and RAM usage, iTunes uses FAR more of both than, say, Winamp. It isn't a problem for me because I have 3 GB of RAM and a AMD 3800 Dual Core processor, but definately a lot of system resource usage comparatively.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I love itunes, but think that the ipod is lacking. There is no way to change the info shown, plus I absolutely hate the stupid "click-wheel." Whenever I want to scroll to something, I pass it several times up and down... Plus, if it's friggin' cold out and you have gloves on you have to take a glove off to use it.

[Easy Mac]

i think i'd wouldn't bother with an mp3 player without having a clickwheel. I tried my mom's Sansa, and it was just unbelievably tedious to move through songs, and that was one of those 1 gb ones. Couldn't imagine manuevering around a 40 gig iPod without it.

[Daimyo]

Still no official Vista support? That's pretty inexcusable for a company as big as Apple.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Daimyo

Still no official Vista support? That's pretty inexcusable for a company as big as Apple.

Hey, hey, easy there, I'd like to remain employed.

[Karlifornia]

I just got an iPod and iTunes recently, and they both get a big thumbs up from me. I ripped my entire CD collection to iTunes...It's just so much more convenient in so many, many ways. And I have yet to purchase one song from iTunes.

Party shuffle is indeed a fantastic feature.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

I just got an iPod and iTunes recently, and they both get a big thumbs up from me. I ripped my entire CD collection to iTunes...It's just so much more convenient in so many, many ways. And I have yet to purchase one song from iTunes.

Party shuffle is indeed a fantastic feature.

I highly recommend looking for the free stuff on iTunes. There's gems in there every once in a while.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I highly recommend looking for the free stuff on iTunes. There's gems in there every once in a while.

Yeah, but the same can be said about going through someone's garbage cans.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by JediKooter

I highly recommend looking for the free stuff on iTunes. There's gems in there every once in a while.

Ah, good thinking. I remember hearing about how there was a lot of good stuff on iTunes released for free (b-sides, covers, etc.). I will go check that out now. Bless you, JediKooter. Your FOFC nickname has references to two of my favorite things: Superheroes and vaginas.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

Yeah, but the same can be said about going through someone's garbage cans.

One man's junk is another man's treasure.

[JediKooter]

Originally Posted by Karlifornia

Ah, good thinking. I remember hearing about how there was a lot of good stuff on iTunes released for free (b-sides, covers, etc.). I will go check that out now. Bless you, JediKooter. Your FOFC nickname has references to two of my favorite things: Superheroes and vaginas.

You're most welcome.

The good thing is, at least the vaginas are not the imaginary one of the two.



I believe I owe you a couple of beers, if I remember correctly...

[AgustusM]

not that you asked (or care for that matter) but as the starter of this ITunes sucks thread, I have now completely changed my tune.

I have been using WMP 11 to manage my music library and sync all 6 of my families creative mp3 players for the past few years.

However I did get an IPhone and as it was a requirement to use ITunes I went ahead and installed it again.

Of course what fun is an IPhone without some high quality content so I went ahead and imported my massive Library (10,064 tracks and counting)

after spending about a week with the IPhone and getting to know ITunes better (thanks to a lot of the info in this thread) I have changed my tune completely on ITunes. I got my wife and I both shuffles to replace our zen stones for working out and they are absolutely phenomenal.

I have been a PC guy for most of my life (although I did have an old school mac years ago) and have disdained most things Apple - but after the IPhone and now the shuffle - I have started to come around to the brilliance of Apples designs.

I also got an 80 gig IPod with some credit card reward points that had been accumulating, but I am going to hold off till the big 9/5 announcement before getting my wife one. I am hoping for a full screen Ipod similar to the IPhone interface.

It feels so nice to be part of the cult.

[Booj]

Originally Posted by AgustusM

It feels so nice to be part of the cult.

Welcome aboard!

[Draft Dodger]

and I've been looking around for a replacement for iTunes, mostly because it's using way too much memory (I have a ton of songs).
been playing with Media Monkey. It's similar and definitely is less of a resource hog, but I'm not sure if I can get used to it or not.

[Passacaglia]

I've read this thread several times since it was created, and I still don't get what's so great about itunes. I *want* to like it, but I just don't see what's better about it.

When I'm at home, I use media player -- I like being able to minimize it, and have all the buttons in the taskbar (including one that lets me choose to play songs from any artist or album). Also, when it flips to a new song, a little window pops up telling me what song it is.

At work, I do use itunes -- I like how I can minimize it and there's nothing on my taskbar except a little icon in the system tray. I also like how other people in my office can listen to my library, and vice versa. And I like how google talk lets me show what song I'm listening to as my status. The smart playlists just don't seem to appeal to me. Album art could be interesting, but when do you ever see it?

[wade moore]

Smart Playlists don't interest you? That doesn't compute for me.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Passacaglia

Album art could be interesting, but when do you ever see it?

When I didn't have itunes and my mp3's banned from my machine at work (ok, I was never supposed to have them in the first place) I kept a widget open that has the album artwork and play/ffwd/rwd/stop buttons on it. It is visually appealing to me to see the artwork as it plays. Keep it unobtrusive and in the corner (not that hard with two monitors) and I'm a happy camper. Now I have to use my ipod which is just annoying. I want software control.

[Passacaglia]

B) You need to learn about "Smart Playlists". Instead of allowing filtering in the main library, it uses these very dynamic smart playlists. Then you can select the playlists or in "party shuffle" (a very underrated feature IMO) you can choose which playlist you are using. Whatever you set for the filter on the smart playlists, they automatically get added to as you add music.

Here's what you said about them earlier. I'm not sure what makes it any better than just putting the thing on shuffle and playing all, or shuffling all music by one artist, or one genre.