New England Patriots

[Galaril]

Being from Boston and not being a Pats fan gives me asense of separation of the Pats love fest among most NewEnglanders. It is interesting listening to the local media here point out how amazing it is that most people seem to be bitterly against the Pats, who to Pats fans are the nicest, clean-cut allamerican types you could find

Any ways what do people here think of the Pats wining the SB this year if they get by the last two games?

[Greyroofoo]

Patsies - tEh SuXxoRS!!!!!!111!!!!1!!

[CamEdwards]

I'm a Patriots fan, but I honestly won't be upset if the Saints were to win the Super Bowl. I love a good underdog story.

Now if it's Pats/Bears I want to see the Pats humiliate the Bears. And if the Colts make it, may the NFC win, no matter what the team.

[Swaggs]

Strangely, I don't mind New England's offensive players, but really dislike their defensive guys. I like how Brady and Brown just take care of business, but get tired of hearing guys like Bruschi talk about how no one respects them and, I think, their defense can be pretty dirty at times.

[miami_fan]

http://sports.espn.go.com/espn/page2...simmons/070119

[ISiddiqui]

From the article:

Wait a second ... am I rooting for the football version of the Yankees?

Yep, SportsGuy. Yes you are.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

From the article:



Yep, SportsGuy. Yes you are.

The football version of the yankees? Thats such crap. The Yankees have won 27 world series out of a total of about 100. The Pats have won 3 superbowls out of a total of 40+. If anyone is the football version of the yankees, its the steelers.


The Pats also spent roughly 30 years being the worst team in football.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Synovia

The football version of the yankees? Thats such crap. The Yankees have won 27 world series out of a total of about 100. The Pats have won 3 superbowls out of a total of 40+. If anyone is the football version of the yankees, its the steelers.

You are missing the comparison entirely.

[Synovia]

" banged-up underdog that persevered simply by playing well together, by being well-coached and well-prepared"


again, definitely not the yankees. The comparison doesnt make any sense.

[WelshWizard]

I am from Boston and i am a Patriots fan. Don't even mention us as the football version of the Yankees ........lol

Anyway, i can understand the neutral fan the would dread to see the Patriots win another Superbowl. Heck i could not stand it when the 49ers kept winning. However i could not help but enjoy watching Joe "Mr Cool" Montana win with ease and then to watch him hand over the torch to Steve Young and they don't miss a beat.

This Patriots team has to be admired for what it has accomplished in these days of salary cap and free agency. Not signing Branch to an extended contract and letting him go and getting a first round pick out of it (some would say arrogance, and maybe so but boy that is looking like a damn good trade right now). We suffered through a humiliating defeat against the Bears in 86. We suffered another defeat to the Packers in 96 and we in New England will savor every bit of success we can get as we know it will not be here forever. What Brady has managed to do this season with what really is a weak set of Wide Receivers is fantastic. Our secondary is banged up yet we keep plugging guys in there and they make plays.

I can take all the hatred people have out there for the Patriots, lets face it every winner is hated because we all wish it was our team. I am going to enjoy this as long as it lasts.

GO PATS!!! Bring home another one boys.

[WelshWizard]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

Strangely, I don't mind New England's offensive players, but really dislike their defensive guys. I like how Brady and Brown just take care of business, but get tired of hearing guys like Bruschi talk about how no one respects them and, I think, their defense can be pretty dirty at times.

Well, in fairness to Bruschi, no matter how many times the Patriots keep shutting up the naysayers, they keep coming back dogging the Patriots. Players will find whatever angle they can to motivate themselves and prove people wrong, so to the media keep giving Bruschi and co the amunition it needs. I would say the Patriots are a very physical defense that gets results.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Synovia

" banged-up underdog that persevered simply by playing well together, by being well-coached and well-prepared"


again, definitely not the yankees. The comparison doesnt make any sense.

Please try to look outside of your Patriots coccoon and try to actually understand WHY people hate the Yankees. And it isn't because they are "New York" and it started well before they had all the money they have now (and if it was about NY and money, the Mets would be almost equally hated, but they aren't).

[Lathum]

I think it's a silly comparason. The Yankess's operate in a system where they along with a few other teams have a huge advantage over the rest of the league. I think the fact the Yankee;s haven't won a title the last 5 years is surprising. The fact the Pat's consistently win despite exisiting in a system that strives for every team to be 8-8 every ear is nothing short of amazing and I say they deserve it.

[sabotai]

I would say the Redskins are the Yankees of the NFL. Problem is, going around and just trying to buy up the biggest names simply doesn't work in football. (The oft repeated "The Redskins always win in the offseason.")

As for the Pats vs. Indy, I don't mind if NE wins, but I am pulling for Indy and Manning getting a Super Bowl win.

[SteveMax58]

I'm a Giants fan, and since the Eagles have been eliminated, it doesnt really matter to me who wins at this point. Saints would be a nice story...Peyton getting it done would sorta ok...the Bears, meh, I guess I'm still a little bitter how we lost to them on Monday night.

But the Patriots...I have a deep respect & admiration for teams that persevere & do not "get fat" after winning titles(not to mention Belichick's work with the Giants). 4 titles in 6 years?? That would be an accomplishment up there with the 70's Steelers...and that is greatness. So it wouldnt bother me to see greatness achieved this year.

[Swaggs]

I would nominate the Cowboys as the "Yankees of the NFL."

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by WelshWizard

Well, in fairness to Bruschi, no matter how many times the Patriots keep shutting up the naysayers, they keep coming back dogging the Patriots. Players will find whatever angle they can to motivate themselves and prove people wrong, so to the media keep giving Bruschi and co the amunition it needs. I would say the Patriots are a very physical defense that gets results.

Exactly, people think the patriots whine about 'no respect' for no reason.

But look at this year... 2nd straight week theyre the underdog. People were picking the Jets to beat them... the jets aren't even a decent team.

Same thing in 2003/2004. People keep picking Indy to win the whole thing everyyear, and overlooking the pats.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I would nominate the Cowboys as the "Yankees of the NFL."

They do have one of the major annoyances of the Yankees (arrogant, annoying fans), but haven't come close to winning anything in years. The Yankees have made it into the playoffs even though they didn't get the major prize.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Synovia

But look at this year... 2nd straight week theyre the underdog.

Errr.. how many times does the road team get favored in a 2nd or 3rd round playoff matchup (especially in a 2nd round game where you are playing the #1 seed?!)? Did the fans of the Steelers whine endlessly last year that they got no respect? No, they used the "underdog" tag but didn't focus on it to the point of utter annoyance.

So yeah, that's whining for no reason. Pats fans seem to think an entirely new set of rules should apply to them in these matters.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I would nominate the Cowboys as the "Yankees of the NFL."

Maybe its because I've been a life long falcons fan, but I always pictured the 49ers as the yankees of the NFL. The way they just kept winning through the 80s and early 90s. The way they maneuvered around the system to create a team that kept going.

I have to say I am thankful the NFL has done a better job of removing the loopholes that teams like the 49ers and cowboys exploited. If Baseball would do the same, I think it would do wonders.

For this poll, I put i don't care if they win or lose. I actually enjoy watching the Patriots, I've been in awe of their system for a while. I would personally prefer seeing a Pats vs Saints super bowl I think. Not sure it matters to me at that point who would win.

[Alan T]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Errr.. how many times does the road team get favored in a 2nd or 3rd round playoff matchup (especially in a 2nd round game where you are playing the #1 seed?!)?

So yeah, that's whining for no reason. Pats fans seem to think an entirely new set of rules should apply to them in these matters.

I personally think it is different. I think that Pats fans are viewing it as year to year, where others view this year as a seperate entity. Pats fans say, "we've won so many years in a row and 11-1. Who cares if the Colts won against us this year or are the home team or such, we should be expected to win right now." Colts fans say, "We've proven we could beat the Pats earlier this year, we had the better seed and we are at home, we should be expected to win".

I personally don't find Pats fans annoying at all. Maybe after my few years of living in Dallas during the late 90s and having to endure -those- fans I really have no problem handling Pats fans now. I personally would rate Raiders fans from the 80s more annoying as well as the Green Bay badnwagon crowd that formed in the 90s (Who mostly became suddenly Rams fans in the early 2000s). Most pats fans that I deal with seem to be lifelong fans who finally enjoy their team winning.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by sabotai

I would say the Redskins are the Yankees of the NFL. Problem is, going around and just trying to buy up the biggest names simply doesn't work in football. (The oft repeated "The Redskins always win in the offseason.")

As for the Pats vs. Indy, I don't mind if NE wins, but I am pulling for Indy and Manning getting a Super Bowl win.

I gotta agree here. They buy big names instead of developing talent.

If anything, the Patriots are the Athletics of football. Continually competitive with a completely homegrown staff.

[st.cronin]

Yes, the Patriots are the football version of the Yankees. After this year, they'll be signing Peyton Manning, Jason Taylor, and Ray Lewis as free agents, then they're going to trade a 5th round pick to New Orleans for Reggie Bush, since they won't be able to afford his contract.

Gimme a frickin' break.

[wade moore]

I'm a Colts fan. And unlike the common thought, I do not hate the Pats - not even close. I want the Colts to win, but if they lose to the Pats, I'd have no problem with the Pats winning the whole thing.

[terpkristin]

Crap, is there any way to re-vote? I mis-read the question. I'd like to see a Pats-Saints Superbowl and then a good part of me would like to see the Saints win it all, given what NO went through. Don't get me wrong, I'm a Pats fan, but this year, I'm OK cheering for the Saints.

/tk

[Galaril]

I have to partly agree that generally speaking the Patriots fans are the Yankee fans of the NFL. I luv how a player like Rodney Harrison, one of the dirtiest players in NFL history, from what most fellow NFL players have been saying for years, gets on the Pats and the spin is he a "hard-nosed, lunch pail guy". Just too much Homer for my liking I guess. And though the media like WEEI, play up the whole disrespected the Pats are not underdogs against ANYONE in the playoffs.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I have to partly agree that generally speaking the Patriots fans are the Yankee fans of the NFL. I luv how a player like Rodney Harrison, one of the dirtiest players in NFL history, from what most fellow NFL players have been saying for years, gets on the Pats and the spin is he a "hard-nosed, lunch pail guy". Just too much Homer for my liking I guess. And though the media like WEEI, play up the whole disrespected the Pats are not underdogs against ANYONE in the playoffs.

And that's the point. This money thing is a red herring. The Yanks weren't overspending ridiculously in the 50s and 60s, but I don't think they were loved back then. I mean Hell, the film "Damn Yankees" (based on the play, of course) was released in 1958!

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Galaril

I luv how a player like Rodney Harrison, one of the dirtiest players in NFL history, from what most fellow NFL players have been saying for years,

Are you talkign about that same survey yhat had a vote for Brady? The same survey that had a 22 votes for a punter? That same survey that had a kick returner as one of the dirtiest players in football? GIve me a friggin break.

That was all about reputation. Michael Vick has a reputation of being a good quarterback, and we all knwo that isnt true. Rodney Harrison hasnt played enough football in the last 3 years to be one of the dirtiest playesr in the NFL

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by Synovia

" banged-up underdog that persevered simply by playing well together, by being well-coached and well-prepared"


again, definitely not the yankees. The comparison doesnt make any sense.

Well, the supposition that they are the underdog is wrong I think. This franchise has won 3 super bowls in the past five years. They are the underdog how, exactly? Sure, they don't always have the best record in the conference and they aren't always flashy, but that's Belichik's MO. SG also says something to the effect of "how can you NOT root for these guys?" Easy. But it's the mentality of their fans - the fact that they can't understand folks not caring about them, not rooting for them - that makes them the Yankees.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I'm a Colts fan. And unlike the common thought, I do not hate the Pats - not even close. I want the Colts to win, but if they lose to the Pats, I'd have no problem with the Pats winning the whole thing.

and I'm a Pats fan who will root for the Colts if they win...as long as my mother in law doesn't catch me.

The Pats are hated because they are at the top of the heap, just like the Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins and 49ers were reviled in their heydays. It's natural. I don't think player personality, obnoxious fans, or overblown media is a factor at all.

When this dynasty has ended, and there's another big dog, everyone (except fans of that team) will hate them too.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

But it's the mentality of their fans - the fact that they can't understand folks not caring about them, not rooting for them - that makes them the Yankees.

Nah.
The Yanks are a polarizer. People generally either love them or loathe them - not many people are neutral to them. Again, just like all the big dynasty football teams. That's where the Pats are now - people HAVE to make a decision about them because of their success.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

and I'm a Pats fan who will root for the Colts if they win...as long as my mother in law doesn't catch me.

The Pats are hated because they are at the top of the heap, just like the Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins and 49ers were reviled in their heydays. It's natural. I don't think player personality, obnoxious fans, or overblown media is a factor at all.

When this dynasty has ended, and there's another big dog, everyone (except fans of that team) will hate them too.

Yup. Yeah, Pats fans can be obnoxious.. I don't necessarily think that much more obnoxious than fans of other teams that are in the middle of a dynasty, so I won't begrudge them for that...

[Buccaneer]

Cowboys == Yankees
Patriots == Red Sox
Colts == Braves
Redskins == Cubs ?
Steelers == Cardinals
Raiders == ?

[st.cronin]

In 2001, my career had fallen apart and my fiancee had left me for another man. I was inches away from becoming homeless. Then, of course, 9/11 and most of my closest friends were killed. But when the Patriots won the Super Bowl that year, it was the most uplifting, incredible thing you can imagine. It transported me back to my adolescence, where I would watch football with my grandfather (RIP), and my friends, and over lunch at school we would talk about Andre Tippett and Irving Fryar and how hopeless the team (usually) was.

That's why I root for the Patriots, and why I could never imagine rooting for another team. I don't care about the haters; most of the things they say aren't true, and anyway I hate the Yankees and the Mets so I can understand what it means to hate a team. I don't really care if anybody is rooting for or against the Patriots, or if anybody thinks I'm silly and sentimental for attaching so much importance to a team. It's about me and the connection they provide to my adolescence and the happiest times of my life.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And that's the point. This money thing is a red herring. The Yanks weren't overspending ridiculously in the 50s and 60s, but I don't think they were loved back then. I mean Hell, the film "Damn Yankees" (based on the play, of course) was released in 1958!

You have to be kidding me. The Yankees BOUGHT Babe Ruth from the Sox becuase no one else could AFFORD to pay him what he wanted to be paid. They paid the Sox $125K in 1920. Do you knwo what $125K was worth in 1920? The yankees bought almost the entire red sox roster during a 5 year period. They bought almost the entire athletics roster in the 50s.

They've been throwing around ungodly amounts of money since before Ruth.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Well, the supposition that they are the underdog is wrong I think. This franchise has won 3 super bowls in the past five years. They are the underdog how, exactly? Sure, they don't always have the best record in the conference and they aren't always flashy, but that's Belichik's MO. SG also says something to the effect of "how can you NOT root for these guys?" Easy.

Theyre the underdog because sports pundits, and the people who decide who is the underdog, VEGAS, keep picking against them. I dont get how people dont understand that.

They've been the underdog in a good deal of the games they've made during their SB runs. All the games in 2001 (deservedly), half in 2003, Indy and Pitt in 2004, and now SD and Indy in 2006.

[Draft Dodger]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Theyre the underdog because sports pundits, and the people who decide who is the underdog, VEGAS, keep picking against them. I dont get how people dont understand that.

maybe it's the punctuation and sentence structure?

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

maybe it's the punctuation and sentence structure?

Grow up.

[miami_fan]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

The Pats are hated because they are at the top of the heap, just like the Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins and 49ers were reviled in their heydays. It's natural. I don't think player personality, obnoxious fans, or overblown media is a factor at all.

When this dynasty has ended, and there's another big dog, everyone (except fans of that team) will hate them too.

So simple and yet so complex to comprehend.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by Synovia

You have to be kidding me. The Yankees BOUGHT Babe Ruth from the Sox becuase no one else could AFFORD to pay him what he wanted to be paid. They paid the Sox $125K in 1920. Do you knwo what $125K was worth in 1920? The yankees bought almost the entire red sox roster during a 5 year period. They bought almost the entire athletics roster in the 50s.

They've been throwing around ungodly amounts of money since before Ruth.

LOL!! I love how myths are built up. Anyway:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harry_Frazee

The truth is somewhat more nuanced and dates to a long-running dispute between Frazee and American League founder and president Ban Johnson (see below). The dispute finally boiled over in the summer of 1919 when pitcher Carl Mays jumped the team. Johnson ordered him suspended, but Frazee instead sold him to the then-moribund Yankees. Johnson had promised Yankee owners Jacob Ruppert and Cap Huston to get them better players, but never followed through. The Mays flap divided the American League into two factions--the Yankees, Red Sox and White Sox on one side and the other five clubs, known as the "Loyal Five," on the other.


Under the circumstances, when Frazee finally lost patience with Ruth (see below), his options were severely limited. Under pressure from Johnson, the Loyal Five rejected Frazee's overtures almost out of hand. In effect, Johnson limited Frazee to dealing with either the White Sox or the Yankees. The White Sox offered Joe Jackson and $60,000, but the Yankees offered an all-cash deal--$100,000. Frazee, Ruppert and Huston quickly cut a deal, and Ruth became the property of the Yankees on December 26, 1919.

What, are the White Sox historically known for throwing around gobs of money because they offered $60,000 and Joe Jackson in their proposal? I'm sure if the loyal 5 were willing to get in on it, they could have offered Yankees type money.

Popular legend holds that the Ruppert loan forced Frazee to trade nearly every player of value to the Yankees for literally nothing in return, running the team into the ground. In truth, the "Loyal Five" refused to make any deals with Frazee even after Ruth left for the Bronx. With the White Sox' reputation in tatters following the Black Sox Scandal, Frazee was left with little choice but to deal with the Yankees. While the trades were not seen as particularly one-sided at the time, a turn of luck made them look like Yankee heists. While the players sent to New York were often stiffs who turned into stars, the ones sent to Boston suffered a rash of injuries.

[Synovia]

Issidqui, thats interesting. The yankees page on Wiki says something totally different.

[Synovia]

"
After the sale of Ruth to the Yankees, Frazee continued to sell many of his star players. In the winter of 1920, Wally Schang, future star pitcher Waite Hoyt, Harry Harper, and Mike McNally were traded to the Yankees for Del Pratt, Muddy Ruel, John Costello, Hank Thormahlen, Sammy Vick and cash. [6] The following winter, iron man shortstop Everett Scott, Joe Bush, and Sad Sam Jones were traded to the Yankees for Roger Peckinpaugh (who would be immediately shipped to the Washington Senators), Jack Quinn, Rip Collins, Bill Piercy and $50,000. [7] One particularly controversial deal was that of Joe Dugan and Elmer Smith, who were traded to the Yankees on July 23, 1922, for Elmer Miller, Chick Fewster, John Mitchell, and future superstar Lefty O'Doul, who was at the time a mediocre pitching prospect. The trade of Dugan helped the Yankees edge the St. Louis Browns in a tight pennant race, and the resulting uproar helped create a June 15 trading deadline that went into effect the next year. [8] Perhaps an even more outrageous deal was the trade of Herb Pennock, occurring in early 1923. Pennock was traded by the Red Sox to the Yankees for Camp Skinner, Norm McMillan, George Murray and $50,000. [9]
A couple of notable trades involving Frazee and the Yankees occurred before the Babe Ruth sale. On December 18, 1918, outstanding outfielder Duffy Lewis (mentioned above), pitcher Dutch Leonard, and pitcher Ernie Shore were traded to the Yankees for pitcher Ray Caldwell, Slim Love, Roxy Walters, Frank Gilhooley and $15,000. [10] As all three players were well-regarded in Boston — Lewis had been a key player on the 1910s championship teams, Shore had famously relieved Babe Ruth and retired 27 straight, and Leonard had only four years before set a modern record for earned run average — this trade was regarded as not such a good one in Boston, Then, on July 13, 1919, submarine-style pitching star Carl Mays was traded to the Yankees for Bob McGraw, Allan Russell and $40,000. [11] Mays would go on to have several good years for the Yankees."

[st.cronin]

Regardless of the details of any one deal, there is no argument that the Yankees in the 50s and beyond were operating on anything close to equal financial footing with the rest of the league. Their natural advantages were enormous. It just doesn't compare to the Patriots situation at all.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Draft Dodger

The Pats are hated because they are at the top of the heap, just like the Steelers, Cowboys, Dolphins and 49ers were reviled in their heydays. It's natural. I don't think player personality, obnoxious fans, or overblown media is a factor at all.

When this dynasty has ended, and there's another big dog, everyone (except fans of that team) will hate them too.

This is the simple and correct answer.

The "obnoxious fan" thing is just so old and groundless (unless you're just talking about the bandwagon fans, who are usually the ones you're running into in Texas and Virginia).

If the Lions suddenly go on a super bowl run over the next 5-6 years, I guarantee their fans will be considered "obnoxious".

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Regardless of the details of any one deal, there is no argument that the Yankees in the 50s and beyond were operating on anything close to equal financial footing with the rest of the league. Their natural advantages were enormous. It just doesn't compare to the Patriots situation at all.

And so in the 50s the hatred of the Yankees was based on them having more money?

Like I said, money is a red herring. People hate the Yankees for far more than having more cash and always have.

[molson]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

Like I said, money is a red herring. People hate the Yankees for far more than having more cash and always have.

Would you mind stating these reasons that you seem to think are so obvious? You haven't done that yet.

I used to hate "Yankee fans" as a New Englander, but after spending so much time with them at games and after I moved to New York, I realized that was basically retarded. They're the same as us, expect they happened to grow up a few hours south. (And their team had success that I wished my team did).

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And so in the 50s the hatred of the Yankees was based on them having more money?

Like I said, money is a red herring. People hate the Yankees for far more than having more cash and always have.

My point is just that calling the Patriots the Yankees of football makes no sense. The Patriots fans did not grow up entitled.

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

My point is just that calling the Patriots the Yankees of football makes no sense. The Patriots fans did not grow up entitled.

And my point is that you and other Pats fans aren't getting that the comparison doesn't involve money. They aren't making a one to one comparison. They aren't saying they are exactly the same in every aspect.

[CraigSca]

I hope they win THIS GAME, but only because I'm a disgruntled former Baltimore Colts fan.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by ISiddiqui

And my point is that you and other Pats fans aren't getting that the comparison doesn't involve money. They aren't making a one to one comparison. They aren't saying they are exactly the same in every aspect.

Speaking just for myself, any conversation about the Yankees that doesn't involve money is just nonsense. The Yankees = $.