Holy crap! Vick-to-the-Raiders Rumor

[WSUCougar]

from SI.com's "Truth & Rumors" department:

Oakland is preparing to make a run at Michael Vick. The package would include WRs Randy Moss and Jerry Porter plus the No.1 overall pick in the 2007 draft for Vick and Atlanta's first-round pick.

I'm speechless...

[Subby]

I wonder what kind of cap hit would result from ATL trading Vick and OAK trading Moss...seems like it would be too high to make that kind of deal workable.

[Ben E Lou]

I'm streaming Atlanta sports radio (http://www.790thezone.com) at the moment. Makes for great talk, but I'm not sure it makes sense to get two aging wide receivers and stick 'em with a young QB. By the time Jamarcus is ready, I'd worry that Moss and Porter would be over the hill, and have no confidence whatsoever in the current crop of wide receivers. If we're gonna make a deal, then let's figure out a way to get Calvin.

...and then there's the cap hit.

[VPI97]

No possible way that happens. There would be so much of a backlash from the Atlanta fans that it would kill all momentum the franchise has gained in ticket sales. Say hello to a half-empty dome if Vick is traded.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by Subby

I wonder what kind of cap hit would result from ATL trading Vick and OAK trading Moss...seems like it would be too high to make that kind of deal workable.

Heh. I started typing my response before yours went up, then walked away for a bit. Exactly.

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by VPI97

No possible way that happens. There would be so much of a backlash from the Atlanta fans that it would kill all momentum the franchise has gained in ticket sales. Say hello to a half-empty dome if Vick is traded.

You'd have virtual race riots on talk radio if the Birds were to draft Quinn, but I'll bet the combination of Russell and Moss would tone down that angle, at least. The two of them could fill the dome, but if the Falcons were to start Schaub, it would be a huge mistake. It would take about three games for the anti-Vick people to find out that Matt Schaub isn't who they thought he was. After that, you're looking at a half-empty dome, and a city full of pissed-off bruthas.

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by Subby

I wonder what kind of cap hit would result from ATL trading Vick and OAK trading Moss...seems like it would be too high to make that kind of deal workable.

According to this website (hxxp://www.falcfans.com/players/michael_vick.html) that seems to have a pretty good realistc breakdown of his numbers, Vick's cap hit would be 11.778 million dollars. To wit, the Falcons have a projected $10 million under the cap to spend. It would be pretty hard for the Falcons to pull the trigger as they would have to find a way to pay the first overall draft pick, plus the base salaries of Moss and Porter. It could work if the Falcons decide to rebuild, but then why would they want two aging receivers?

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by VPI97

No possible way that happens. There would be so much of a backlash from the Atlanta fans that it would kill all momentum the franchise has gained in ticket sales. Say hello to a half-empty dome if Vick is traded.

Agreed. I see sort of like an Allen Iverson-Philadelphia type divorce in the future. But not this year (probably in two to three more years).

[RedKingGold]

Although, Vick to the Raiders (if they keep Moss) would be pretty freaking cool to watch.

[Ben E Lou]

This also doesn't make sense from the new coach angle (unless that first meeting went so horribly that they feel like they can't work together). Vick has always been at his best when stretching the field

[Ben E Lou]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

Although, Vick to the Raiders (if they keep Moss) would be pretty freaking cool to watch.

True dat.

[Ksyrup]

Yeah, it'd be awesome until the third play of the season, when Vick scrambles to Moss' side of the field and gets his shoulder separated by a hit from the guy Moss was supposed to be blocking.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by VPI97

No possible way that happens. There would be so much of a backlash from the Atlanta fans that it would kill all momentum the franchise has gained in ticket sales. Say hello to a half-empty dome if Vick is traded.

Y'know, I've consistently made the same argument & still think it has a good bit of validity, but at this point I am starting to wonder at least a little bit.

The finger incident didn't go over very well. And even if the Miami PD gave Vick a clear endorsement & made him an honorary member of their drug task force the taint of the airport incident doesn't seem likely to fade IMO.

All of that, plus the losing, plus the wait-and-see (at best) mood about the coaching choice, plus the steadily decreasing faith that ownership has a clue about what it's doing ... well, I'm starting to wonder if we may not be looking at a half-empty Dome by the middle of next season regardless of who is playing QB.

[Ksyrup]

Wise or not, the idea of a "fresh start" under a new coach mandates that they give him at least one more year, if not two. The only thing I could see changing that would be another, more serious off-field issue. If he under-performs next year, I think they have to seriously consider a move, regardless of the cap implications.

[Raiders Army]

I'm not sure Vick is what we need right now. The Raiders are such a shambles adding Vick would be like adding fuel to the fire.

[Subby]

The Raiders have a great defense - seems to me that if you add *any* offense you'll, at the very least, be looking great in preseason.

[bulletsponge]

Originally Posted by Subby

The Raiders have a great defense - seems to me that if you add *any* offense you'll, at the very least, be looking great in preseason.

Dude this deal need to be done for this reason alone!

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Subby

The Raiders have a great defense - seems to me that if you add *any* offense you'll, at the very least, be looking great in preseason.

Very true (unfortunate to admit). On the flipside, the "what could have been" for last year with a mediocre/bad defense was off the charts. So if they turn things around on offense this year and get a favorable schedule and some luck, they could be respectable in a hurry.

[wade moore]

I agree with the folks saying this will never happen...

However... this makes me wonder... what if the Falcons tried to get Moss or Porter for Schaub?

[ISiddiqui]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Y'know, I've consistently made the same argument & still think it has a good bit of validity, but at this point I am starting to wonder at least a little bit.

The finger incident didn't go over very well. And even if the Miami PD gave Vick a clear endorsement & made him an honorary member of their drug task force the taint of the airport incident doesn't seem likely to fade IMO.

All of that, plus the losing, plus the wait-and-see (at best) mood about the coaching choice, plus the steadily decreasing faith that ownership has a clue about what it's doing ... well, I'm starting to wonder if we may not be looking at a half-empty Dome by the middle of next season regardless of who is playing QB.

I don't agree with this. No matter what Vick has done outside the field, there is always the chance that you see an absolutely amazing play made by him on the field. For that reason alone, Mr. Excitement will pack in the Dome, no matter what he does off the field.

[KWhit]

No way Randy Moss plays a down as a Falcon. There are other reasons that this trade won't happen, but the Falcons don't want Moss and his issues.

If by wild chance this trade did happen, the Falcons would trade Moss before the season started.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Yeah, it'd be awesome until the third play of the season, when Vick scrambles to Moss' side of the field and gets his shoulder separated by a hit from the guy Moss was supposed to be blocking.

Come on... that's not fair. Some WR's can block, some can't. Moss is very talented in many areas other than blocking, like half-assing it when running routes...

[Young Drachma]

I think if Moss was on a contender, he might still be a jackass, but he's show up on Sunday more than TO ever did.

[Young Drachma]

Dola

Especially now that he's spent time in purgatory. He can appreciate the earlier part of his career a lot more than before.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think if Moss was on a contender, he might still be a jackass, but he's show up on Sunday more than TO ever did.

Wouldn't showing up on Sunday and trying further the cause of becoming a contender? Especially with a decent defense they have over there.

Moss is a loser plain and simple.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Wouldn't showing up on Sunday and trying further the cause of becoming a contender? Especially with a decent defense they have over there.

Moss is a loser plain and simple.

Moss isnt the problem in Oakland. The problem is a completely incompetent owner and coach. It wasnt just Moss, it was the entire offense that was misbehaving. The oakland Raiders problems: 1. Bad Ownership/GM (Al Davis) 2. Bad offensive coaching 3. The subway turnstiles they call an offensive line: especially Gallery, at the $8m a year theyre paying him. Randy Moss is probably about problem 20.

Last I calculated it, the cap hit for trading Vick would be about $20m. Hes not going anywhere.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Synovia

Moss isnt the problem in Oakland. The problem is a completely incompetent owner and coach. It wasnt just Moss, it was the entire offense that was misbehaving. The oakland Raiders problems: 1. Bad Ownership/GM (Al Davis) 2. Bad offensive coaching 3. The subway turnstiles they call an offensive line: especially Gallery, at the $8m a year theyre paying him. Randy Moss is probably about problem 20.

Last I calculated it, the cap hit for trading Vick would be about $20m. Hes not going anywhere.

All I said was that Moss was a loser. That's it. Whether he's problem 1 or 20 he's a problem. If you excuse his lack of effort by the situation you are basically saying Moss is a small, small man and is in fact a loser.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I think if Moss was on a contender, he might still be a jackass, but he's show up on Sunday more than TO ever did.

Actually, until late in this year, many people were quick to defend TO's hustle and his willingness to go all out on every play. It was always Moss who took plays off, even when he played for a contender. Until this year, TO never had that reputation.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

Actually, until late in this year, many people were quick to defend TO's hustle and his willingness to go all out on every play. It was always Moss who took plays off, even when he played for a contender. Until this year, TO never had that reputation.

Hmm..that's true.

[ctmason]

I don't forsee this coming to pass either, simply because fans are filling the Dome to see Michael Vick.

Those that believe this latest incident will have fans leaving the stands are giving sports fans way too much credit.

[digamma]

This is classic Unsubstantiated Internet Rumor-mongoring. This was posted on Benmaller.com, with no source attributed.

The trade makes no sense for the Falcons. Absolutely none.

I do have a question regarding the cap hit. Don't the Falcons get hit with a second year hit as well? It's not just the 11-12M for 2007, or do I have that mixed up?

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

All I said was that Moss was a loser. That's it. Whether he's problem 1 or 20 he's a problem. If you excuse his lack of effort by the situation you are basically saying Moss is a small, small man and is in fact a loser.

The problem is, if you say that, then you have to say that Porter is a loser, and Curry, and about 12 other players on the offense. I'm more inclined to think that its the OC, and Coach that are the losers, and not the players. I think it was still preseason when players (including defensive ones) started making comments about how it was a really bad atmosphere.

[Desnudo]

So would you rather have the #1 pick or Vick today? I'd take the #1 pick personally.

[miami_fan]

This does not make sense for either team. Why would the Falcons subject a brand new coach to Porter and Moss? Especially while trying to break in a rookie QB. And why would the Raiders take on Vick without their most talented (but troubled) receivers? I don't think either side would be happy after the deal.

[Bee]

Originally Posted by miami_fan

This does not make sense for either team. Why would the Falcons subject a brand new coach to Porter and Moss? Especially while trying to break in a rookie QB. And why would the Raiders take on Vick without their most talented (but troubled) receivers? I don't think either side would be happy after the deal.

Why would Vick need receivers? Just stick an extra Guard out there to block for him.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

So would you rather have the #1 pick or Vick today? I'd take the #1 pick personally.

I'd take the #1, simply because I'd rather roll the dice with another QB with a big contract than a guy with a huge contract who definitely isn't the answer.

[General Mike]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

According to this website (hxxp://www.falcfans.com/players/michael_vick.html) that seems to have a pretty good realistc breakdown of his numbers, Vick's cap hit would be 11.778 million dollars. To wit, the Falcons have a projected $10 million under the cap to spend. It would be pretty hard for the Falcons to pull the trigger as they would have to find a way to pay the first overall draft pick, plus the base salaries of Moss and Porter. It could work if the Falcons decide to rebuild, but then why would they want two aging receivers?

11.778 million is his cap hit if he is on the Falcons in 2007. If they trade him, all the bonus money accelerates into this year and the cap hit is in the 22 million dollar range.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by Bee

Why would Vick need receivers? Just stick an extra Guard out there to block for him.

Vick has had 3 1st round WRs, and 2 free agent WRs who were good with their last teams. I dont think getting him Santana Moss and Steve Smith would make him work.... However.... getting him 3 big TEs and running heavy sets all the time might...

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

So would you rather have the #1 pick or Vick today? I'd take the #1 pick personally.

I would take the #1 for future but also I would get Vick to get a full stadium and a huge popularity boost, so hard choice.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by Desnudo

So would you rather have the #1 pick or Vick today? I'd take the #1 pick personally.

I'd rather have LT and Brees.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by ctmason

I don't forsee his learning how to pass either.

Exactly

[RedKingGold]

Originally Posted by General Mike

11.778 million is his cap hit if he is on the Falcons in 2007. If they trade him, all the bonus money accelerates into this year and the cap hit is in the 22 million dollar range.

Ahh, you're right. That's what I couldn't find and I assumed it was just piled up in the "cap hit".

So, it'd be a damn near impossibility to trade Vick.

[Ksyrup]

Randy Moss is far more valuable (to me) than $22 million if he remains a Raider.

[EagleFan]

If the Falcons were smart they may want to jump on that offer. That is WAY too much to pay for that pretender of a quarterback. As always, the Raiders would be making yet another stupid move and still not have an answer at quarterback.

[digamma]

One more thing to think about.

Since the loss to the Cowboys in the 1980 play-offs, the Falcons have had six seasons where they finished better than 7-9.

Vick has been the starting quarterback for three of those seasons, and during his tenure as a starter, Atlanta has never finished worse than 7-9 (not counting the year he was injured for the first 13 games of the season).

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by EagleFan

If the Falcons were smart they may want to jump on that offer. That is WAY too much to pay for that pretender of a quarterback. As always, the Raiders would be making yet another stupid move and still not have an answer at quarterback.

If the Falcons take that offer, they take the 20m cap hit, not the raiders. They still owe him (cap-wise) $20m+ of his signing bonus. Oakland would get Vick for about $6m a year, and Atlanta would get $20m of dead cap. Although, if you were goign to do it, this is the year to, with that huge cap jump and all.

[Thomkal]

Can't possibly believe the Falcons would even consider this deal. Trading one problem child for two more makes no sense, especially with a new coach.

[Mateo]

I think many people have the real Michael Vick confused with his Madden doppleganger.

Michael Vick may be fun to watch, but he'll never win the big game, regardless of where he plays.

[VPI97]

Originally Posted by digamma

Since the loss to the Cowboys in the 1980 play-offs, the Falcons have had six seasons where they finished better than 7-9.

Vick has been the starting quarterback for three of those seasons, and during his tenure as a starter, Atlanta has never finished worse than 7-9 (not counting the year he was injured for the first 13 games of the season).

You must not be paying attention...haven't you heard that Vick is a corn row wearin', pot smokin', herpes givin' running back who doesn't grasp the fundamentals of throwing a football, yet still gets lined up at quarterback despite having an IQ that rivals the mentally challenged. Who cares about how good the team has done with him at quarterback...that was obviously the work of Jim Mora and Dan Reeves.

Jeez...you'd think that you don't read message boards, for goodness sakes.

[Synovia]

Originally Posted by VPI97

You must not be paying attention...haven't you heard that Vick is a corn row wearin', pot smokin', herpes givin' running back who doesn't grasp the fundamentals of throwing a football, yet still gets lined up at quarterback despite having an IQ that rivals the mentally challenged. Who cares about how good the team has done with him at quarterback...that was obviously the work of Jim Mora and Dan Reeves.

Jeez...you'd think that you don't read message boards, for goodness sakes.

Since Mike Vick became QB, the falcons are a remarkable 47-48-1. That includes the only 2 seasons above .500. I'm sorry, when you have the highest paid quarterback in the league, and continually have a bottom 5 in the league passing game, theres a severe misuse of cap space going on.