Arena Football 2007

[wade moore]

For years now I have tried to get into Arena Football with limited success. With the new ESPN deal I want to give it another shot, especially because a player from W&M that I have a special affinity for (he once let my fiance talk his ear off for 30 minutes while he was working at the Nike outlet about W&M Football and later would talk to us every time he saw us, etc) is a rookie on the Austin Wranglers this year.

So, I knew you wouldn't see all of the games on TV, so I wanted to look for when the Wranglers would be on ESPN.

Wow...

This is a joke of a schedule to support the league as whole. Maybe it will be good for ratings and exposure, but it's not good for folks that want to be fans of any team not in a major media market.

Date Teams Network/Time

Regular season

Sun., March 4 Chicago at Kansas City ESPN on ABC (regional) 12:30 p.m.

Dallas at New York ESPN on ABC (regional) 12:30 p.m.

Mon., March 12 Los Angeles at Orlando ESPN2 7 p.m.

Thurs., March 22 Colorado at Philadelphia ESPN2 7 p.m.

Mon., March 26 Dallas at Orlando ESPN2 7 p.m.

Sun., April 1 Los Angeles at Chicago ESPN2 1:30 p.m.

Mon., April 9 Georgia at Philadelphia ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., April 16 Philadelphia at Dallas ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., April 23 Philadelphia at Columbus ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., April 30 Philadelphia at Chicago ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., May 7 Colorado at Chicago ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., May 14 New York at Philadelphia ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., May 21 New Orleans at Philadelphia ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., May 28 New York at New Orleans ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., June 4 Colorado at Utah ESPN2 10:30 p.m.

Mon., June 11 Los Angeles at Arizona ESPN2 10 p.m.

Mon., June 18 Chicago at Colorado ESPN2 10 p.m.

Mon., June 25 Dallas at Colorado ESPN2 10 p.m.

One game doesn't have a team from Philly, Dallas, New York, or Chicago. The Austin Wranglers I mentioned don't even get a game. This is great if you want to follow Bon Jovi's team as they're on 7 times, but of 18 teams, 8 of them don't even get a game on TV unless they make the playoffs.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by wade moore

This is great if you want to follow Bon Jovi's team as they're on 7 times, but of 18 teams, 8 of them don't even get a game on TV unless they make the playoffs.

I'd like to follow Bon Jovi's team, and run Jon over with my car.

[CU Tiger]

Quote:

Date Teams Network/Time

Regular season

Sun., March 4 Chicago at Kansas City ESPN on ABC (regional) 12:30 p.m.

Dallas at New York ESPN on ABC (regional) 12:30 p.m.

Mon., March 12 Los Angeles at Orlando ESPN2 7 p.m.

Thurs., March 22 Colorado at Philadelphia ESPN2 7 p.m.

Mon., March 26 Dallas at Orlando ESPN2 7 p.m.

Sun., April 1 Los Angeles at Chicago ESPN2 1:30 p.m.

Mon., April 9 Georgia at Philadelphia ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., April 16 Philadelphia at Dallas ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., April 23 Philadelphia at Columbus ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., April 30 Philadelphia at Chicago ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., May 7 Colorado at Chicago ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., May 14 New York at Philadelphia ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., May 21 New Orleans at Philadelphia ESPN2 7:30 p.m.

Mon., May 28 New York at New Orleans ESPN2 8 p.m.

Mon., June 4 Colorado at Utah ESPN2 10:30 p.m.

Mon., June 11 Los Angeles at Arizona ESPN2 10 p.m.

Mon., June 18 Chicago at Colorado ESPN2 10 p.m.

Mon., June 25 Dallas at Colorado ESPN2 10 p.m.



Looks like 3 not 1, but your point is still well taken.
However, to play devil's advocate, I dont anticipate great market penetration in any market, so .05% of 8million is considerably better than .05% of 680,000

[cuervo72]

Do any of these teams have Comcast/FSN type deals? You would definitely think local tv contracts would be the way to increase interest in the league, at least in markets with a team.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Do any of these teams have Comcast/FSN type deals? You would definitely think local tv contracts would be the way to increase interest in the league, at least in markets with a team.

It looks like at least some of them did in 2006, so I'm assuming they would in 2007 too. So that's a good point. Problem is, unless Comcast Mid-Atlantic picks up Philly, I don't see anyone being available to me.

As to the 3 vs. 1, I meant to include LA in my list ...

[Ksyrup]

What they should do is show the games locally for free, generate fan interest, and then sell their entire TV rights package to DirecTV for exclusive pay-per-view telecasts.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by Ksyrup

What they should do is show the games locally for free, generate fan interest, and then sell their entire TV rights package to DirecTV for exclusive pay-per-view telecasts.

I think a small (viewership wise) league like the AFL should be making games avaible for free or very low cost on the internet. Look what happened to CBS's ratings after putting stuff on Youtube...

[Pumpy Tudors]

That schedule is really awful. People will miss out on seeing some great teams and great games. Tampa Bay and Georgia are coming off subpar years, but they're usually strong teams, and they're not on the schedule. San Jose is always an exciting team to watch, and they're not on the schedule. The Columbus Destroyers dug themselves out of a horrific 2005 season to finish 8-8 last year, but nobody will get to see them play. Orlando - as much as I hate them - is one of the league's most popular teams, and they only get two appearances. Then, of course, there's Austin, which Wade mentioned. The Wranglers are improving very quickly, and I think this will be a big year for them. Too bad they won't be on national television.

It's unfathomable that Philadelphia gets four consecutive national games while most of the other teams I mentioned get none. Dallas, New York, and Chicago don't seem to have too many appearances, but maybe that's just because I'm comparing them to the overload of Philly games.

I'm terribly disappointed that ESPN won't show one of the Tampa Bay-Orlando meetings (the "War on I-4") or anything involving rising teams like Austin and Columbus. At least I'll have two chances to see the VooDoo. I'm going to get really tired of watching Philadelphia, and it's counterproductive to have AFL fans consciously staying away from the national telecasts just because the same team is playing over and over.

To answer cuervo's question, at least some of the teams have regional TV deals. I know that the VooDoo and Desperados do. I think the Wranglers and the teams in Florida do. I don't have any guesses at all about the northern and western teams.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Then, of course, there's Austin, which Wade mentioned. The Wranglers are improving very quickly, and I think this will be a big year for them. Too bad they won't be on national television.

The Wranglers also have what may be the only "name" draw for non-AFL fans in Adrian McPherson at QB this year.

[Lathum]

IIRC when I lived in Dallas they had a local TV deal and I watched quiet a few of their games. It seems to me they are trying to marlet to the bigger audiences plus capitilize on the succes of the bears. From ESPN's standpoint they don't care where the viewers come from and are going to put on the "most popular" teams. IT's no different then them putting Redsox-Yankees on over Devilrays-Bluejays, be it right or wrong. It's the same reason why we have to endure 2-3 monday football appearences by the Cowboys every year even if they stink. It's all about the ratings. Crappy for fans of the league.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The Wranglers also have what may be the only "name" draw for non-AFL fans in Adrian McPherson at QB this year.

Shaun King signed with Las Vegas recently, but since the Gladiators don't have any national TV appearances, nobody's gonna know it.

[cuervo72]

Wranglers site says they signed Chris Redman too!

[gstelmack]

The AFL has been begging for national TV exposure for a long time, and basically will sign whatever deal they can get (see the NBC deal a few years back where the AFL basically gave away the rights just for the exposure). I'll bet that those are the teams ESPN wanted to show, and the AFL had to agree to get on the air.

I also agree that I'd love for them to just give the games away on the Internet to raise fan interest.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Shaun King signed with Las Vegas recently, but since the Gladiators don't have any national TV appearances, nobody's gonna know it.

Didn't know that... I've seen some other interesting signings of guys who are done in the NFL, but now are in the AFL - like Lincoln Kennedy signing with Dallas.

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Wranglers site says they signed Chris Redman too!

Nice. Another W&M Alum QB Lang Campbell is on their roster, but is in some weird "exemption" slot I guess because he was on the Cleveland Browns roster for week 17. So I'm not sure how that effects his AFL situation.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

The AFL has been begging for national TV exposure for a long time, and basically will sign whatever deal they can get (see the NBC deal a few years back where the AFL basically gave away the rights just for the exposure). I'll bet that those are the teams ESPN wanted to show, and the AFL had to agree to get on the air.

I also agree that I'd love for them to just give the games away on the Internet to raise fan interest.

Oh, I'm sure that's what is going on here. I guess I'm saying I don't like it from a potential fan perspective even though it may be a smart business decision.

In the end the deal with ESPN is probably bigger for the AFL because of Sportscenter than because of the actual games.

[Pumpy Tudors]

It isn't ideal, but the AFL does offer online video of the games for $14.95 per month. They show some games live, but all of the games are viewable on-demand later. I'm considering it just to watch the VooDoo, but I don't really know how much use I'd get out of it. If they did something where you could spend $1 or $2 per game, I'd be all over it.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It isn't ideal, but the AFL does offer online video of the games for $14.95 per month. They show some games live, but all of the games are viewable on-demand later. I'm considering it just to watch the VooDoo, but I don't really know how much use I'd get out of it. If they did something where you could spend $1 or $2 per game, I'd be all over it.

Good to know. I might check that out if it turns out Cason is starting for the Wranglers.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Nice. Another W&M Alum QB Lang Campbell is on their roster, but is in some weird "exemption" slot I guess because he was on the Cleveland Browns roster for week 17. So I'm not sure how that effects his AFL situation.

You're right on the exempt status. To save a roster spot, an AFL team can put someone on the exempt list if the player is in another league. The Wranglers retain his AFL rights indefinitely.

A couple of quick semi-interesting things regarding players' AFL rights: The Philadelphia Soul had Tommy Maddox's AFL rights pretty much from the time they entered the league. Maddox retired from the AFL last November, so the Soul is finally free from him. Also, the VooDoo selected Rashied Davis in the 2006 expansion draft (when the VooDoo rebuilt their roster). I don't think he'll be playing at all for the VooDoo this year, though, considering that he's currently with the Chicago Bears. Somehow, I don't see him going from the Super Bowl back to the AFL anytime soon.

[Ksyrup]

Originally Posted by cuervo72

Wranglers site says they signed Chris Redman too!

FSU and Louisville represented! They're so desperate for fans, they've tailored their roster to the long-sought-after "transplanted Tallahassee resident now living near Louisville" demographic.

Do they have room on the roster to sign Chris Rix and Tim Couch, too?

[Young Drachma]

I'm semi-interested in going to a game in Colorado this year. We'll see though. I'm almost intrigued to see what one of these games would be like.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm semi-interested in going to a game in Colorado this year. We'll see though. I'm almost intrigued to see what one of these games would be like.

It's really an electric atmosphere. Lots of noise and music. I can assure you that there won't be anything approaching silence once the national anthem is over. From the games I went to and the games I've seen on TV, I know that the fans really get into the game. You don't need to know the players very well, and you don't even really need to know every single rule of the game. It's just a lot of fun. It's much, much more fun live than it is on television.

On another note, I just discovered that my favorite "VooDoo Doll" is not one of the finalists to make the VooDoo dance team this year. I don't know if she even tried out, but I'm sad that she's not there anymore. I guess I don't need to plan a trip back to New Orleans this spring!

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It's really an electric atmosphere. Lots of noise and music. I can assure you that there won't be anything approaching silence once the national anthem is over. From the games I went to and the games I've seen on TV, I know that the fans really get into the game. You don't need to know the players very well, and you don't even really need to know every single rule of the game. It's just a lot of fun. It's much, much more fun live than it is on television.

On another note, I just discovered that my favorite "VooDoo Doll" is not one of the finalists to make the VooDoo dance team this year. I don't know if she even tried out, but I'm sad that she's not there anymore. I guess I don't need to plan a trip back to New Orleans this spring!

The unfortunate thing for me, a guy who really would like to get into Arena Football, is that the closest team is in Philly over 300 miles and 3 metropolitan areas away.

I've enjoyed Arena games when I watched them, but I really need somethinig to "root" for to truely get into a sport. That's why I'm hoping Cason gets a starting job with Austin. Or that Billy Parker returns to the New York Dragons despite a stint in the NFL (he won DROY last year). Otherwise, it's hard for me to really get into a team which makes the sport harder to follow.

I was goinig to get into AF2 that had a Norfolk team, but alas they folded.

[Sublime 2]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The unfortunate thing for me, a guy who really would like to get into Arena Football, is that the closest team is in Philly over 300 miles and 3 metropolitan areas away.

I've enjoyed Arena games when I watched them, but I really need somethinig to "root" for to truely get into a sport. That's why I'm hoping Cason gets a starting job with Austin. Or that Billy Parker returns to the New York Dragons despite a stint in the NFL (he won DROY last year). Otherwise, it's hard for me to really get into a team which makes the sport harder to follow.

I was goinig to get into AF2 that had a Norfolk team, but alas they folded.

I haven't really read through the thread, but what exactly is the difference between AF and AF2...is AF2 like a minor league? I ask because I'd like to get into arena football, and follow the Manchester Wolves.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Sublime 2

I haven't really read through the thread, but what exactly is the difference between AF and AF2...is AF2 like a minor league? I ask because I'd like to get into arena football, and follow the Manchester Wolves.

AF2 is essentially a minor league AF. I don't believe it is a literal minor leagues in that there are farm teams tied to the AF teams, but they have lower-tier players that will get pulled up to AF teams if the player performs well.

[lordscarlet]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The unfortunate thing for me, a guy who really would like to get into Arena Football, is that the closest team is in Philly over 300 miles and 3 metropolitan areas away.

I've enjoyed Arena games when I watched them, but I really need somethinig to "root" for to truely get into a sport. That's why I'm hoping Cason gets a starting job with Austin. Or that Billy Parker returns to the New York Dragons despite a stint in the NFL (he won DROY last year). Otherwise, it's hard for me to really get into a team which makes the sport harder to follow.

I was goinig to get into AF2 that had a Norfolk team, but alas they folded.

Come stay with me one weekend and it's an easy trip up to Philly.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The unfortunate thing for me, a guy who really would like to get into Arena Football, is that the closest team is in Philly over 300 miles and 3 metropolitan areas away.

I've enjoyed Arena games when I watched them, but I really need somethinig to "root" for to truely get into a sport. That's why I'm hoping Cason gets a starting job with Austin. Or that Billy Parker returns to the New York Dragons despite a stint in the NFL (he won DROY last year). Otherwise, it's hard for me to really get into a team which makes the sport harder to follow.

I was goinig to get into AF2 that had a Norfolk team, but alas they folded.

Oh, I understand completely. As much as I was into the AFL in 2004 and 2005, without the VooDoo, it was hard for me to keep up last year. For me, the real test is going to be this year, because my favorite team is back, but I won't be attending any of their games.

I hope that Stephen Cason gets a job down in Austin. The Wranglers are usually a pretty good defensive team, so it would be really nice for him to be a part of that. As for Billy Parker, he was activated from the exempt list earlier this month, so it's looking like he'll be back with the Dragons this year. I haven't seen many Dragons games, but I know that he's a beast. If he stays in the AFL for a long time, he could end up being an AFL legend (for whatever that's worth).

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Oh, I understand completely. As much as I was into the AFL in 2004 and 2005, without the VooDoo, it was hard for me to keep up last year. For me, the real test is going to be this year, because my favorite team is back, but I won't be attending any of their games.

I hope that Stephen Cason gets a job down in Austin. The Wranglers are usually a pretty good defensive team, so it would be really nice for him to be a part of that. As for Billy Parker, he was activated from the exempt list earlier this month, so it's looking like he'll be back with the Dragons this year. I haven't seen many Dragons games, but I know that he's a beast. If he stays in the AFL for a long time, he could end up being an AFL legend (for whatever that's worth).

That's worth a lot to a guy that follows I-AA football religiously . He would be the first guy (Parker) I watched play really succeed in a professional sport that I could watch (Darren Sharper graduated before I got here and I don't count the guys playing Europ basketball).

I'm going to try to watch as many national games as I can this year, we'll see how it goes.. maybe I'll even program my TiVO.

[Ksyrup]

Lexington has a United Indoor Football franchise. They apparently almost jumped to AF2, but that hasn't happened yet. I'll probably go to a game to check it out.

[SFL Cat]

Originally Posted by wade moore

I was goinig to get into AF2 that had a Norfolk team, but alas they folded.

Didn't former NFL DE Bruce Smith have a stake in that AF2 Norfolk team?

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SFL Cat

Didn't former NFL DE Bruce Smith have a stake in that AF2 Norfolk team?

Yup, he's from VA Beach. I worked with a guy that played on the team too.

I think it's a big problem with AF2. It's much like a lot of the other soccer leagues... teams just go up and down all over the place.. I know there have been teams in both Richmond and Roanoke also, and those are both gone.

[wade moore]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Norfolk_Nighthawks

The Norfolk Nighthawks were a now-defunct charter member of af2. They played their home games at Norfolk Scope in Norfolk, Virginia. After an impressive inaugural season, the Nighthawks never made it back to the playoffs and ceased all operations after the 2003 season.

[Pumpy Tudors]

AF2 has a lot of fluctuation in its teams. That's kind of a shame because I'm sure it's a good product. It's no more volatile than the ECHL, though, so I guess I can't complain too much.

The AFL seems to be a little more stable these days, and I'm happy for that. Detroit and Carolina folded a couple of years ago, but everybody else is still hanging on. I won't be surprised if Arizona finally bites the dust soon, and I don't know how Grand Rapids stays in business, but everyone else seems to be doing OK. I just wish Pittsburgh could get a team again. I'm dying to go to another AFL game.

[Passacaglia]

Ping: Schmidty. Grand Rapids, represent!!

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

It's really an electric atmosphere. Lots of noise and music. I can assure you that there won't be anything approaching silence once the national anthem is over. From the games I went to and the games I've seen on TV, I know that the fans really get into the game. You don't need to know the players very well, and you don't even really need to know every single rule of the game. It's just a lot of fun. It's much, much more fun live than it is on television.

On another note, I just discovered that my favorite "VooDoo Doll" is not one of the finalists to make the VooDoo dance team this year. I don't know if she even tried out, but I'm sad that she's not there anymore. I guess I don't need to plan a trip back to New Orleans this spring!

Thanks Pumpy. I've been following it casually since the late 80s and have always been intrigued and it's neat to see something so random really catch on in recent years.

I think I'll probably check a Crush game out at some point this year.

[Pumpy Tudors]

It's amazing to me that the AFL has been around for 20 years now. For such a niche sport, they've had a few teams hang on for a long time. I guess it's big enough in Orlando, Tampa, San Jose, and Arizona to keep going (though, again, I won't be surprised if the Rattlers fold). I honestly didn't think that Chicago would make it, but they've got a championship now, and it looks like they're going to stick around.

I don't know what the AFL's business model is, but it's in pretty decent shape. I just can't figure out how Grand Rapids has hung on for 10 years now. The team is bad, the attendance is bad, and the TV market is downright tiny. I guess they're doing something right.

[lordscarlet]

Came across what appears to be a good AFL article on ESPN: Twenty-one things to know about the Arena Football League

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by lordscarlet

Came across what appears to be a good AFL article on ESPN: Twenty-one things to know about the Arena Football League

Bah, I already knew 18 of those 21 things.

[Synovia]

"Open substitution will help the offenses create more mismatches," Soul coach Bret Munsey said. "In the past, our defenses were prepared to stop the offense in the red zone. Now that changes. We have to look more to make stops in the middle of the field."

2. ....quarterback Clint Dolezel, the AFL's 2006 MVP who threw for a league-record 105 TDs last season....

Because this league really needs more offensive mismatches?

[Young Drachma]

I was just going to ask about the open substitution rule. Seems to me that it might open the door to a few more guys getting jobs in the league?

As for the offense, I doubt anyone is trying to go to an arena game to see a defensive showdown.

[Synovia]

It wont open up any new jobs, roster sizes aren't changing. What it will do, is change who gets those jobs. 2 way skills wont be as valuable.

[Pumpy Tudors]

More people will have opportunity in the AFL with open substitutions. Personally, I'm not sure if I like the idea yet, but I'm an "AFL purist" in a way. The league was built around "iromman football." That's completely gone now. I guess it doesn't matter too much, since the league's stars are all specialists, but I think some decent two-way players will lose their jobs.

Think about it. Using letter grades as an example, a guy might be a B on offense and a B on defense. In previous years, that's a guy you want at your FB/LB or WR/DB position for sure. Now, a team can go get a guy who's A on offense and D on defense and vice-versa. Sure, you're replacing one guy with two guys, but they've expanded the rosters a little, so some players will end up benched or waived.

It's an adjustment for sure, so everyone will just have to get used to it.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Synovia

It wont open up any new jobs, roster sizes aren't changing. What it will do, is change who gets those jobs. 2 way skills wont be as valuable.

I thought the rosters went up from 20 to 24. Maybe they were 24 last year and I'm just not remembering correctly.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

I thought the rosters went up from 20 to 24.

Hmm ... I wonder if I look hard enough if I can find a political angle to this.


{sorry Pumpy, couldn't resist}

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Hmm ... I wonder if I look hard enough if I can find a political angle to this.


{sorry Pumpy, couldn't resist}

Nice shot.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Just to add something really quickly, I bought the new Arena Football game for the PS2, but I haven't opened it yet. From what I've read, it looks like they didn't put in the new substitution rules, so at least I can pretend like I'm playing in the "old" AFL.

[Butter]

I'm pretty sure Columbus had a couple of games on around here last season. Not that I watched them or anything.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Butter_of_69

I'm pretty sure Columbus had a couple of games on around here last season. Not that I watched them or anything.

That wouldn't surprise me. The Destroyers are actually one of the league's most popular teams, although I can't imagine why.

[Eaglesfan27]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Just to add something really quickly, I bought the new Arena Football game for the PS2, but I haven't opened it yet. From what I've read, it looks like they didn't put in the new substitution rules, so at least I can pretend like I'm playing in the "old" AFL.

FWIW, the Gamespot review panned the game for the most part as just a roster update with no significant additions. It got a score somewhere around 6.

[Pumpy Tudors]

Originally Posted by Eaglesfan27

FWIW, the Gamespot review panned the game for the most part as just a roster update with no significant additions. It got a score somewhere around 6.

I admit that I'm not surprised by that at all. The boards on the AFL website suggest the same thing. As silly as it may seem, the only reason I bought this game was because of the VooDoo. They weren't in last year's game, and using create-a-team with the VooDoo's logo didn't come out right.

I figure that if I were still in New Orleans, I'd be spending way more than $30 to go to games and stuff. Instead, I'll pay this $30 and be able to play them in a somewhat flawed video game.

Yeah, in a way, I'm trying to justify my purchase a little, but that's part of the fun, I guess.

[Butter]

Originally Posted by Pumpy Tudors

Yeah, in a way, I'm trying to justify my purchase a little, but that's part of the fun, I guess.

Doesn't SOUND fun.