Barbaro put down

[Qwikshot]

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/horse...thanized_x.htm

[QuikSand]

Very sad.

[path12]

[rkmsuf]

Called this back in May. Real nice of those assholes to make his last 8 months really nice.

[Oilers9911]

What a fight that horse put up just to live. Many humans wouldn't have gone through what he did to live. It was a compelling and yet very sad story to follow. RIP Barbaro.

[RedKingGold]

What do they do with a horse....post death?

[QuikSand]

I don't claim any insider knowledge, but everything I have read has been consistent that the owers maintained that the horse's comfort was an essential. I suspect that is a relative term, but it's not like they were completely oblivious to his suffering. Indeed, it was because he would continue to suffer if treatment continued that today's decision was made.

Maybe you have more insight than I do. Yes, I realize monetary motivations were present, but these owners said and (seemingly) did all the right things in trying to treat him and consider his comfort.

I know it's easy and probably cathartic to write them off as "assholes." I'm just not ready to do so, nor am I convinced it's fair.

[Oilers9911]

I imagine cremation.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Called this back in May. Real nice of those assholes to make his last 8 months really nice.

i am sure he was pampered something fierce at UPenn....a friend of mine owns his own horse and told me that race horses are treated exceptionally well all the time, so i would think that Barbaro was treated better than normal given his injury.

that said, i think it was incredibly selfish of the horse owners to keep him alive to begin with, since it was purely for their benefit of being able to stud him....i wonder how many times they extracted sperm from him while he was in the hospital to use to artifically inseminate with.

[JonInMiddleGA]

[KJDelaney]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

What do they do with a horse....post death?

Burger King

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by saldana

ii wonder how many times they extracted sperm from him while he was in the hospital to use to artifically inseminate with.

zero

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

I don't claim any insider knowledge, but everything I have read has been consistent that the owers maintained that the horse's comfort was an essential. I suspect that is a relative term, but it's not like they were completely oblivious to his suffering. Indeed, it was because he would continue to suffer if treatment continued that today's decision was made.

Maybe you have more insight than I do. Yes, I realize monetary motivations were present, but these owners said and (seemingly) did all the right things in trying to treat him and consider his comfort.

I know it's easy and probably cathartic to write them off as "assholes." I'm just not ready to do so, nor am I convinced it's fair.

Well, show me similar circumstances regarding this injury where such lengths were gone to preserve the horse's life. In most cases like this the horse is put down for the very reason he was put down today. It's virtually impossible to heal them and you are prolonging the end and basically making the horse suffer.

Maybe they were well intended in their effort but to me horribly misguided by either public sentiment or the monetary potential.

[korme]

Barbaro Timeline 2006
• May 6: Wins Kentucky Derby by 6½ lengths. It is Barbaro's sixth win in six career starts.
• May 20: Fractures right hind leg in three places during early part of Preakness Stakes at Pimlico. Later that night, Barbaro is taken to New Bolton Center, in Kennett Square, Pa., where a frantic battle ensues to save his life.
• May 21: Barbaro has surgery to insert a plate and screws to repair the fracture. Dr. Dean Richardson, New Bolton's chief of surgery, leads the operation team.
• July 8: Dr. Richardson replaces the plate and many of the screws after Barbaro's temperature rises and he experienced discomfort. Later that week, laminitis is cited as the cause. "I think we're going to have some tough days ahead. I'm being realistic about it," Richardson said.
• Aug. 8: Barbaro gets a new cast. "His left hind hoof continues to show signs of regrowth and looks healthy," Richardson said.
• Sept. 26: Barbaro's left hind hoof, 80 percent of which was surgically removed due to laminitis, is reportedly regrowing. "It has to grow at least three times that, which could take more than six months," Richardson said.
• Nov. 6: Cast on Barbaro's right hind leg is removed.
• Doctors consider releasing Barbaro from New Bolton. "In my mind's eye, he can leave in the not so distant future," Richardson said.

2007
• Jan. 9: After experiencing discomfort in his left hind foot, separation is found in the hoof. A cast which had been applied to the leg is removed.
• Jan. 18: Barbaro is reportedly improving.
• Jan. 25: Barbaro's left-foot cast was replaced and he received a custom-made plastic and steel brace on his right hind leg. Richardson said doctors were pleased with the progress
• Jan. 26: The cast on the right leg is removed. "He's got a lot of issues, and not any of them is bad enough to say goodbye. But put together it's not a good day for Barbaro," owner Roy Jackson said.
• Jan. 27: Surgery performed to insert two steel pins in a bone to eliminate all weight bearing on the ailing right foot. The procedure is risky because it transfers more weight to the leg. If the bone were to break again, Richardson said: "I think we'll quit.
• Jan. 29: Barbaro euthanized.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by saldana

that said, i think it was incredibly selfish of the horse owners to keep him alive to begin with, since it was purely for their benefit of being able to stud him....i wonder how many times they extracted sperm from him while he was in the hospital to use to artifically inseminate with.

I'm no expert when it comes to horse breeding, but wouldn't his injury, combined with how he responded to the treatments tend to lower his stud value? I understand that the goal is to breed fast horses, but you also want horses that have durability as well. Or was the broken leg simply a freak injury that wasn't tied to genetically weak leg bones?

[saldana]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'm no expert when it comes to horse breeding, but wouldn't his injury, combined with how he responded to the treatments tend to lower his stud value? I understand that the goal is to breed fast horses, but you also want horses that have durability as well. Or was the broken leg simply a freak injury that wasn't tied to genetically weak leg bones?

most likely it was a freak injury due to the way he planted or the unevenness of the dirt. his bloodline would have been worth millions to his owners.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

zero

not trying to start a fight, but how do you know that?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Well, show me similar circumstances regarding this injury where such lengths were gone to preserve the horse's life. In most cases like this the horse is put down for the very reason he was put down today. It's virtually impossible to heal them and you are prolonging the end and basically making the horse suffer.

Maybe they were well intended in their effort but to me horribly misguided by either public sentiment or the monetary potential.

And you may be right. I may be falling for a PR ruse.

Sure, most horses get put down immediately under this circumstance, but that's in large part a financial decision, regrettably. The enormous costs to treat a horse the way that Barbaro was (a special pool and sling apparatus built to hoist him and bear his weight during the times that he could not do so) are beyond what could be accommodated for a more ordinary specimen.

But if there's the resources to do it (from an owner or insurance company with a monetary interest, say), and you can indeed treat the animal with a reasonable degree of comfort... isn't that an appropriate thing to do? It's a shame that it's only a practical consideration when the horse is potentially worth millions in the breeding shed, but if that's the reality -- then your choices are try to save him in comfort, or just let him die. Doesn't the former seem worth a shot?


Again - I don't claim any insider knowledge, and it's possible that I'm just a rube falling for the "keep him out of pain" line that has been part of this story all along, but I have always had the sense that it was a genuine feeling of the owners to do so.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by saldana

not trying to start a fight, but how do you know that?

Because registered throughbreds cannot be the result of artificial insemination. There is no value to loose sperm samples, since you could neither race nor breed a horse birthed through those means anyway.

[rkmsuf]

• Jan. 27: Surgery performed to insert two steel pins in a bone to eliminate all weight bearing on the ailing right foot. The procedure is risky because it transfers more weight to the leg. If the bone were to break again, Richardson said: "I think we'll quit.

Why would you even do this? What, they have like horse wheelchairs that he can live a productive life in?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by cartman

I'm no expert when it comes to horse breeding, but wouldn't his injury, combined with how he responded to the treatments tend to lower his stud value? I understand that the goal is to breed fast horses, but you also want horses that have durability as well. Or was the broken leg simply a freak injury that wasn't tied to genetically weak leg bones?

There's plenty of reason to your thinking, that "soundness" would be a main criterion of quality breeding. However, in practice, precocity sells far better than long term soundness.

For whatever reason, especially in North America, the real focus is on the younger developing horses, like the early 3yos that run in the Triple Crown each year, and the series of prep races leading up to it. If you invest in sound, stable horses who won't be brilliant early but might develop to have solid, long careers -- you end up watching everyone else run for the big money, while you are relegated to second-tier status running in older company for races that Bob Costas doesn't make it to town to cover.


As for Barbaro's injury, there's hardly a consensus whether there was any connection to unsoundness, or whether he just took an unlucky step. Even the most physically sound thoroughbred is so fragile, that a catastrophic accident can happen from a seemingly minor problem.

[kcchief19]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

Well, show me similar circumstances regarding this injury where such lengths were gone to preserve the horse's life. In most cases like this the horse is put down for the very reason he was put down today. It's virtually impossible to heal them and you are prolonging the end and basically making the horse suffer.

Maybe they were well intended in their effort but to me horribly misguided by either public sentiment or the monetary potential.

Well, there are clearly apparently some similar circumstances because many horses have recovered from some of the setbacks Barbaro suffered. They didn't pioneer any medicine with Barbaro's case -- they used treatments used on other horses with similar conditions.

You're suggesting that money may have played a role in Barbaro's treatment, and I think that's certainly likely. However, I'd argue that putting a horse down usually has more to do with money than this case did. Once a horse develops a serious injury like this, the racing career is over and even stud potential could be reduced.

Treating Barbaro wasn't cheap -- I'll bet the total tallied into several hundred thousand dollars, if not more. Who is willing to spend $100,000 in medial bills on a race horse who can't race anymore? This isn't the Old West where you can't treat the horse. Anymore, putting a horse down has more to do with saving money than making the horse comfortable. Heck, I know people who have put their pets down not because the pet was incurable but because they couldn't afford $3,000 for cancer treatment or surgery.

[kcchief19]

Note to self: if rkmsuf ever breaks his leg, he wants to be put down.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by kcchief19

Note to self: if rkmsuf ever breaks his leg, he wants to be put down.

I'm a horse? A typing one at that.

[saldana]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Because registered throughbreds cannot be the result of artificial insemination. There is no value to loose sperm samples, since you could neither race nor breed a horse birthed through those means anyway.

did not know that....which actually makes me even more annoyed at the owners...they knew they had to get him back on his feet again to get any value from him, which explains even more the last 9 months.

[Oilers9911]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I'm a horse? A typing one at that.

Maybe just a certain end of the horse.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Oilers9911

Maybe just a certain end of the horse.

Your new name will be "horse penis".

Why horse penis?

Why not?

[QuikSand]

So, a recehorse breaks his leg.

If he's got no real long term value, his owners do the expected thing and have him euthanized.

If he's got big long term value, someone has a financial stake in at least seeking treatment, and would be willing to pay for it. It's costly to do so with the horse kept in comfort, but if someone (either the owner or an insurance company) is willing to pay for it... then the choices are to treat him with comfort, or to let him die.

It's a shame that the non-valuable horses are just left to die, I'll certainly agree with that. But I don't see how making efforts to keep this horse alive, especially considering all the many extra efforts that were undertaken to specifically account for his comfort and well-being during recovery, is a despicable thing to do.

True, if you assume that everything they have said and done about the horse's comfort was an outright lie and that he was in pain all through this process, then I'd see an argument there. But both the vets and the owners have been publicly consistent that this was only going forward as long as it did not cause the horse to suffer. I guess there are degrees of that, but if you take them (all) at their word, then I don't see how what they did was unfair or inappropriate.

Yes, money made it possible for him to get this treatment. No, I don't agree that this necessarily makes everyone involved a greedy and terrible person.

[Ksyrup]

Not every story can end like Dreamer - which, since we moved here, has become mandatory viewing in our household since it's set in Versailles and filmed all over this area. Perhaps if they had found a young girl who got attached to him, keeping him alive for the money (as well) would have been more acceptable.

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Because registered throughbreds cannot be the result of artificial insemination. There is no value to loose sperm samples, since you could neither race nor breed a horse birthed through those means anyway.

so when a horse stands stud they actualy bring the female to the male and they actualy have intercourse?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so when a horse stands stud they actualy bring the female to the male and they actualy have intercourse?

Yup, exactly like that.

[cartman]

Originally Posted by Lathum

so when a horse stands stud they actualy bring the female to the male and they actualy have intercourse?

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Yup, exactly like that.

Giggity!

[Lathum]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

Yup, exactly like that.

hmm, never knew that

[Qwikshot]

Originally Posted by rkmsuf

I'm a horse? A typing one at that.

Watch out if you live in Washington State then...

http://www.usatoday.com/life/movies/...tandouts_x.htm

But Zoo, about a cult of Washington state men who have sex with horses, took the high road in tone and will be released later this year.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by Lathum

hmm, never knew that

there's even a fluffer horse to get the female worked up. worst job in the land right there.

[Ksyrup]

This was all detailed on one episode of Dirty Jobs. The father of one of my daughter's soccer teammates works in horse reproduction (presumably as a technician, not a fluffer).

[flere-imsaho]

I don't know a lot about horses, so maybe someone can explain something to me. Barbaro broke his leg, basically, right? How, exactly, is this a life-threatening situation? Other animals break their legs, and there are treatments and whatnot. Is it different with horses?

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by flere-imsaho

I don't know a lot about horses, so maybe someone can explain something to me. Barbaro broke his leg, basically, right? How, exactly, is this a life-threatening situation? Other animals break their legs, and there are treatments and whatnot. Is it different with horses?

In short, thoroughbreds are very physically fragile, and unless they can stand and walk, they tend to have lots of complications, including severe digestion problems, internal discord, and problems with the hooves like Barbaro did even months after his broken leg. By and large, a severely broken leg is a death sentence for a horse, as the injury prevents all sorts of other things from working properly, and they tend to re-break the leg often (frequently more severely) even if they receive treatment.

[JPhillips]

Flere- Read this.

http://www.slate.com/id/2142159/

[BrianD]

Is this fragility the result of breeding for racehorses, or is it common to all horses? If it is common to all horses, it is a wonder they haven't gone extinct.

[rkmsuf]

Originally Posted by QuikSand

In short, thoroughbreds are very physically fragile, and unless they can stand and walk, they tend to have lots of complications, including severe digestion problems, internal discord, and problems with the hooves like Barbaro did even months after his broken leg. By and large, a severely broken leg is a death sentence for a horse, as the injury prevents all sorts of other things from working properly, and they tend to re-break the leg often (frequently more severely) even if they receive treatment.

Exactly.

[flere-imsaho]

Wow.

Edit: Thanks for the explanations, guys.

[bbor]

He definatly was a fighter....i am glad that he will suffer no more.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by BrianD

Is this fragility the result of breeding for racehorses, or is it common to all horses? If it is common to all horses, it is a wonder they haven't gone extinct.

Regrettably, by most accounts this is largely a function of the deliberate inbreeding and backcrosses that have been part of the thoroughbred lines for about three centuries. Basically, all the race horses in North America trace back, literally, to three stallions from the early 18th century. The Darley Arabian, in particular, connects chromosomally to something like 90% of modern American racehorses.

[Honolulu Blue]

Originally Posted by RedKingGold

What do they do with a horse....post death?

Must... resist... urge... to tell... tasteless... jokes...