OOTP-Is this guy a Hall of Famer? (Lima Time is now retired"

JeffNights · 01-31-2007, 11:00 PM

Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO Teams
1994 3 1 0 1 0 13.50 6.2 11 0 10 3 7 0 0 DET
1995 15 15 3 9 0 6.11 73.2 85 0 50 18 37 0 0 DET
1996 39 4 5 6 3 5.70 72.2 87 0 46 22 59 0 0 DET
1997 52 1 1 6 2 5.28 75.0 79 0 44 16 63 0 0 HOU
1998 33 33 16 8 0 3.70 233.1 229 0 96 32 169 3 1 HOU
1999 35 35 16 11 0 3.19 254.0 237 100 90 49 157 7 4 HOU
2000 36 36 14 16 0 3.67 262.2 240 121 107 46 121 9 1 MIN
2001 38 38 22 6 0 3.11 274.2 252 106 95 52 158 8 1 MIN COL,NL
2002 35 35 23 6 0 3.24 255.1 227 98 92 35 137 9 1 COL,NL
2003 35 35 14 12 0 4.49 230.2 269 130 115 32 124 5 1 COL,NL
2004 33 33 15 13 0 4.41 239.0 251 137 117 56 115 7 1 BOS
2005 29 29 11 13 0 5.96 176.2 209 124 117 55 142 4 1 BOS
2006 33 33 20 6 0 2.85 249.1 218 91 79 64 192 12 4 BOS,AL
Total 416 328 160 113 5 3.96 2403.2 2394 907 1058 480

Weird, He is a three-time Cy Young winner, 01',02', and 06'..but other than those seasons hes a really mediocre....But, I cannot think of any pitcher that has won the Cy Young three times and not get in the Hall of Fame...
Well, hes 34 at the end of 2006 here, so we'll see what happens.
any thoughts?

Young Drachma · 01-31-2007, 11:05 PM

Hmm..three 20-win seasons. He bounced around a lot and that never helps. But, I dunno. Almost a 4.00 ERA doesn't really play well. And 160-113 isn't exactly a stellar record. '01 and '02 were his dominant years for sure.

But I think that...in the era of the DH and the homerun, that he's probably a Hall of Famer if he can get to 200 wins. And after his 2006, that's not a stretch.

Swaggs · 01-31-2007, 11:50 PM

Is he still active?

If not, I'd say no... not a long enough career to overcome his mediocre ERA and not great enough to overcome his short career. If Dave Stewart, Jack Morris, or Brett Saberhagen can't get a sniff at the Hall of Fame, this guy is a definite no go for me.

SackAttack · 02-01-2007, 01:13 AM

Three good (not great) years and a bunch of mediocrity? He wouldn't get within 500 feet of the plane to Cooperstown for me.

Schmidty · 02-01-2007, 01:21 AM

Yes. Voters are bastards, and I'd like to see guys like Morris and Trammell get in like they should. Fuck numbers. Look at importance to the team and leadership as well. That's one of the reasons I hate baseball (other than the Tigers).

Honolulu Blue · 02-01-2007, 11:55 AM

It's always helpful to have league norms with discussions like this. But I can sort of guess them from his records through the years.

Not a HOF'er at the present time. Needs about 90-100 more wins with a similar winning percentage to get serious consideration.

SteveMax58 · 02-01-2007, 12:47 PM

Yep...Brett Saberhagen came to mind for me too. Dave Stewart is a good comparison I didnt thik of as well.

Good pitchers in their time...but probably not HoF worthy.

Tyrith · 02-01-2007, 12:56 PM

If it's typical OOTP stats then it's offense heavy. He did win three Cy Youngs, which probably means those seasons were great compared to the league averages. That said, I'd say he needs a couple more good seasons, but he's better than he appears because of the weirdness of OOTP.

DanGarion · 02-01-2007, 02:24 PM

It depends who is a Hall of Famer for your league? What are the typical numbers pitchers are putting up? If you throw out the first couple seasons that he was a reliever and learning the ropes his ERA is reduced to 3.76. I would say he needs to pitch another season or two at the level he is pitching, but this should all be relative to what are the league averages.

JeffNights · 02-01-2007, 04:24 PM

Yes he' still active, just signed a new deal, hes not on my team, so i'll check back in a couple seasons...

LOL, one more thing, its a historical league that started in 1999, i didnt want to tell you the guys name, since i think it MAY cause some bias...ha, its Jose Lima.

Lima Time baby!

Pumpy Tudors · 02-01-2007, 04:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JeffNights

LOL, one more thing, its a historical league that started in 1999, i didnt want to tell you the guys name, since i think it MAY cause some bias...ha, its Jose Lima.

Well, if you had shown us that he allowed 954 home runs in his career, we would've guessed that.

KevinNU7 · 02-02-2007, 07:22 AM

How has his done in the post season, any titles?

DougWyatt · 02-02-2007, 09:33 AM

Interesting case.

Just by his numbers, I'd say - not enough. But with a late career push, he could get consideration.

However ... 3 Cys ? Wow. I can't imagine a guy winnng 3 Cy Youngs and not getting in. That alone would convince alot of voters. During those years, he certainly built the "name". If he had any post season success, that would just add to the "legend". Often "name" means more than numbers. (IE .. Is Bill Mazeroski a Hall of Famer if he didn't hit the 1960 walkoff ?)

Also I found interesting. His first 2 dominant seasons ('01 & '02) were in Colorado. If stadium factors are in your game, that makes those years even more impressive.

Tyrith · 02-02-2007, 10:03 AM

Hey, this is the Lima Time career that we all hoped he would have. It's a shame someone with such an interesting personality started sucking so rapidly.

stevew · 02-02-2007, 10:07 AM

If he can get to 200 wins, he probably should get in.

albionmoonlight · 02-02-2007, 10:11 AM

How did he look in preseason? Great?

JeffNights · 02-02-2007, 08:47 PM

[Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO Teams
1994 3 1 0 1 0 13.50 6.2 11 0 10 3 7 0 0 DET
1995 15 15 3 9 0 6.11 73.2 85 0 50 18 37 0 0 DET
1996 39 4 5 6 3 5.70 72.2 87 0 46 22 59 0 0 DET
1997 52 1 1 6 2 5.28 75.0 79 0 44 16 63 0 0 HOU
1998 33 33 16 8 0 3.70 233.1 229 0 96 32 169 3 1 HOU
1999 35 35 16 11 0 3.19 254.0 237 100 90 49 157 7 4 HOU
2000 36 36 14 16 0 3.67 262.2 240 121 107 46 121 9 1 MIN
2001 38 38 22 6 0 3.11 274.2 252 106 95 52 158 8 1 MIN COL,NL
2002 35 35 23 6 0 3.24 255.1 227 98 92 35 137 9 1 COL,NL
2003 35 35 14 12 0 4.49 230.2 269 130 115 32 124 5 1 COL,NL
2004 33 33 15 13 0 4.41 239.0 251 137 117 56 115 7 1 BOS
2005 29 29 11 13 0 5.96 176.2 209 124 117 55 142 4 1 BOS
2006 33 33 20 6 0 2.85 249.1 218 91 79 64 192 12 4 BOS,AL
2007 32 32 14 10 0 4.89 209.2 213 122 114 57 135 6 1 BOS,AL
2008 26 26 7 13 0 5.69 150.1 177 104 95 53 92 6 0 BOS
2009 6 6 2 4 0 6.11 35.1 44 24 24 15 18 1 0 BOS
Total 480 392 183 140 5 4.15 2799.0 2828 1157 1291 605 1726 77 16
]

well, he signed a new three year extension with Boston after winning the third Cy Young in 06', The Red Sox signed for 3 more seasons at 11Mil each...he somewhat lasted till the end, then refused assignments to minors, and retired.

here are his post season stats, they arent too bad

Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO
1999 5 5 1 1 0 4.73 32.1 37 17 17 4 17 0 0
2001 5 5 4 0 0 2.43 37.0 30 12 10 3 18 0 0
2002 5 5 2 1 0 3.08 38.0 28 14 13 4 20 2 0
2004 2 2 0 0 0 5.59 9.2 14 6 6 3 6 0 0
2006 1 1 1 0 0 3.52 7.2 10 4 3 5 4 0 0
2007 2 2 1 1 0 2.65 17.0 14 5 5 2 9 1 1
Total 20 20 9 3 0 3.43 141.2 133 58 54 21 74 3 1

in 01', he led the Rockies to the World Series Championship, he went 3-0 with wins in games 1,4, and 7 in the Series he did get hammered in the first two rounds though, but he pitched three eight inning games giving up 1,2, and then 1 runs.

Looking at his notes...Hey heres something, he won the Golden Glove award five times, Jose Lima? THats rather, odd.

ah well, to me, i dont think he gets into the HOF based on his numbers, but i just brought this up because of his three Cy YOungs.

P.S. Can anybody tel me the proper code to make these columns align?

SackAttack · 02-02-2007, 10:30 PM

try the {code} brackets, only with []

Honolulu Blue · 02-02-2007, 10:31 PM

The playoff record helps him (thank you for it), but his record after '06 does not.

I still say no.

DougWyatt · 02-02-2007, 10:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Honolulu Blue

The playoff record helps him (thank you for it), but his record after '06 does not.

I still say no.

" "

01-31-2007, 11:05 PM	#2
Young Drachma Dark Cloud Join Date: Apr 2001	Hmm..three 20-win seasons. He bounced around a lot and that never helps. But, I dunno. Almost a 4.00 ERA doesn't really play well. And 160-113 isn't exactly a stellar record. '01 and '02 were his dominant years for sure. But I think that...in the era of the DH and the homerun, that he's probably a Hall of Famer if he can get to 200 wins. And after his 2006, that's not a stretch. __________________ Current dynasty: Hard Knocks Tennis Sim Dynasty \| OOTP Mod: Managerial Strategy Files \| GM Excel Competitive Balance Tax/Revenue Sharing Calc \| FBCB Mods on Github

01-31-2007, 11:50 PM	#3
Swaggs Coordinator Join Date: Oct 2000	Is he still active? If not, I'd say no... not a long enough career to overcome his mediocre ERA and not great enough to overcome his short career. If Dave Stewart, Jack Morris, or Brett Saberhagen can't get a sniff at the Hall of Fame, this guy is a definite no go for me. __________________ DOWN WITH HATTRICK!!! The RWBL Are you reading In The Bleachers?

02-01-2007, 02:24 PM	#9
DanGarion Coordinator Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: PNW	It depends who is a Hall of Famer for your league? What are the typical numbers pitchers are putting up? If you throw out the first couple seasons that he was a reliever and learning the ropes his ERA is reduced to 3.76. I would say he needs to pitch another season or two at the level he is pitching, but this should all be relative to what are the league averages. __________________ Los Angeles Dodgers Check out the FOFC Groups on Facebook! and Reddit! DON'T REPORT ME BRO!

02-02-2007, 07:22 AM	#12
KevinNU7 College Starter Join Date: May 2003 Location: Beantown	How has his done in the post season, any titles? __________________ Boston Bashers - III.14 - (8347)

02-02-2007, 08:47 PM	#17
JeffNights College Prospect Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Michigan	[Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO Teams 1994 3 1 0 1 0 13.50 6.2 11 0 10 3 7 0 0 DET 1995 15 15 3 9 0 6.11 73.2 85 0 50 18 37 0 0 DET 1996 39 4 5 6 3 5.70 72.2 87 0 46 22 59 0 0 DET 1997 52 1 1 6 2 5.28 75.0 79 0 44 16 63 0 0 HOU 1998 33 33 16 8 0 3.70 233.1 229 0 96 32 169 3 1 HOU 1999 35 35 16 11 0 3.19 254.0 237 100 90 49 157 7 4 HOU 2000 36 36 14 16 0 3.67 262.2 240 121 107 46 121 9 1 MIN 2001 38 38 22 6 0 3.11 274.2 252 106 95 52 158 8 1 MIN COL,NL 2002 35 35 23 6 0 3.24 255.1 227 98 92 35 137 9 1 COL,NL 2003 35 35 14 12 0 4.49 230.2 269 130 115 32 124 5 1 COL,NL 2004 33 33 15 13 0 4.41 239.0 251 137 117 56 115 7 1 BOS 2005 29 29 11 13 0 5.96 176.2 209 124 117 55 142 4 1 BOS 2006 33 33 20 6 0 2.85 249.1 218 91 79 64 192 12 4 BOS,AL 2007 32 32 14 10 0 4.89 209.2 213 122 114 57 135 6 1 BOS,AL 2008 26 26 7 13 0 5.69 150.1 177 104 95 53 92 6 0 BOS 2009 6 6 2 4 0 6.11 35.1 44 24 24 15 18 1 0 BOS Total 480 392 183 140 5 4.15 2799.0 2828 1157 1291 605 1726 77 16 ] well, he signed a new three year extension with Boston after winning the third Cy Young in 06', The Red Sox signed for 3 more seasons at 11Mil each...he somewhat lasted till the end, then refused assignments to minors, and retired. here are his post season stats, they arent too bad Year G GS W L SV ERA IP HA R ER BB K CG SHO 1999 5 5 1 1 0 4.73 32.1 37 17 17 4 17 0 0 2001 5 5 4 0 0 2.43 37.0 30 12 10 3 18 0 0 2002 5 5 2 1 0 3.08 38.0 28 14 13 4 20 2 0 2004 2 2 0 0 0 5.59 9.2 14 6 6 3 6 0 0 2006 1 1 1 0 0 3.52 7.2 10 4 3 5 4 0 0 2007 2 2 1 1 0 2.65 17.0 14 5 5 2 9 1 1 Total 20 20 9 3 0 3.43 141.2 133 58 54 21 74 3 1 in 01', he led the Rockies to the World Series Championship, he went 3-0 with wins in games 1,4, and 7 in the Series he did get hammered in the first two rounds though, but he pitched three eight inning games giving up 1,2, and then 1 runs. Looking at his notes...Hey heres something, he won the Golden Glove award five times, Jose Lima? THats rather, odd. ah well, to me, i dont think he gets into the HOF based on his numbers, but i just brought this up because of his three Cy YOungs. P.S. Can anybody tel me the proper code to make these columns align? Last edited by JeffNights : 02-02-2007 at 10:38 PM.

02-01-2007, 01:13 AM	#4
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	Three good (not great) years and a bunch of mediocrity? He wouldn't get within 500 feet of the plane to Cooperstown for me.

02-01-2007, 01:21 AM	#5
Schmidty Coordinator Join Date: Apr 2001 Location: Early, TX	Yes. Voters are bastards, and I'd like to see guys like Morris and Trammell get in like they should. Fuck numbers. Look at importance to the team and leadership as well. That's one of the reasons I hate baseball (other than the Tigers).

02-01-2007, 11:55 AM	#6
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	It's always helpful to have league norms with discussions like this. But I can sort of guess them from his records through the years. Not a HOF'er at the present time. Needs about 90-100 more wins with a similar winning percentage to get serious consideration.

02-01-2007, 12:47 PM	#7
SteveMax58 College Starter Join Date: Dec 2006	Yep...Brett Saberhagen came to mind for me too. Dave Stewart is a good comparison I didnt thik of as well. Good pitchers in their time...but probably not HoF worthy.

02-01-2007, 12:56 PM	#8
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	If it's typical OOTP stats then it's offense heavy. He did win three Cy Youngs, which probably means those seasons were great compared to the league averages. That said, I'd say he needs a couple more good seasons, but he's better than he appears because of the weirdness of OOTP.

02-01-2007, 04:24 PM	#10
JeffNights College Prospect Join Date: Mar 2002 Location: Michigan	Yes he' still active, just signed a new deal, hes not on my team, so i'll check back in a couple seasons... LOL, one more thing, its a historical league that started in 1999, i didnt want to tell you the guys name, since i think it MAY cause some bias...ha, its Jose Lima. Lima Time baby!

02-02-2007, 09:33 AM	#13
DougWyatt H.S. Freshman Team Join Date: Sep 2006	Interesting case. Just by his numbers, I'd say - not enough. But with a late career push, he could get consideration. However ... 3 Cys ? Wow. I can't imagine a guy winnng 3 Cy Youngs and not getting in. That alone would convince alot of voters. During those years, he certainly built the "name". If he had any post season success, that would just add to the "legend". Often "name" means more than numbers. (IE .. Is Bill Mazeroski a Hall of Famer if he didn't hit the 1960 walkoff ?) Also I found interesting. His first 2 dominant seasons ('01 & '02) were in Colorado. If stadium factors are in your game, that makes those years even more impressive.

02-02-2007, 10:03 AM	#14
Tyrith College Starter Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: Houston, TX	Hey, this is the Lima Time career that we all hoped he would have. It's a shame someone with such an interesting personality started sucking so rapidly.

02-02-2007, 10:07 AM	#15
stevew Hall Of Famer Join Date: Dec 2003 Location: the yo'	If he can get to 200 wins, he probably should get in.

02-02-2007, 10:11 AM	#16
albionmoonlight Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: North Carolina	How did he look in preseason? Great?

02-02-2007, 10:30 PM	#18
SackAttack Head Coach Join Date: Oct 2000 Location: Green Bay, WI	try the {code} brackets, only with []

02-02-2007, 10:31 PM	#19
Honolulu Blue Dynasty Boy Join Date: Jan 2001 Location: Michigan	The playoff record helps him (thank you for it), but his record after '06 does not. I still say no.

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