Text Sims: The next big step forward?

[Groundhog]

Text sims will always remain my favourite games to play because they offer a level of realism and depth that will probably never be matched by 3D graphical games. Having said that, I think they have hit a real rut.

I remember when I first discovered text sims it was a particularily creative period. Each new sim that was released was bringing in significant new features, and taking another step towards realism and immersion. I'd read up on the latest developments of a number of sims in development and drool over the additions and would find myself unable to play earlier versions anymore because I now knew what they were missing.

I've mentioned this in other threads, but sometime ago, maybe a year or more, this really stopped for me. I feel that the current sims we have for most sports are pretty robust, and the features being added to future versions are no longer the big step forward that they used to be. All in all, I'm starting to feel like I do when the next Madden title is released - a couple of relatively minor tweaks and additions, but its rarely anything that makes my jaw drop when compared with what I've already got, and I don't feel compelled to upgrade with each edition.

I've played the demos for DDS:PB and FOF2K7, and I admit that both are good titles with lots of new additions that improve them both, but I haven't felt compelled to buy either, and I just fire up the older versions of both titles to get my fix.

I guess what I'm getting at is, what would YOU like to see these sims do to make that next big progression, while keeping it realistic.

For me, I would like to see the game universe expanded within the sim. The merging of college and pro, and the inclusion of fully-featured foreign play would be the next logical major progression in this market. Although this is already a feature of most of the Non-US sports sims I play, it is yet to happen in any of the US sports sims I play.

I realise that it might not appear economically wise to release a 2 or 3-in-one sim due to the fact that it would be difficult to get people to shell out $70 or so for a title if they have no interest in the pro/college/foreign portion of the game, but I envision the purchase of a single FOF (for example) application, and from within that application you can purchase the various modules that interest you (foreign/college/pro).

This is for me the one big hole in all of my current favourite sim titles. I feel it will still be a couple of years away at the very least for most of these titles, but I believe it will eventually happen.

[Eaglesfan27]

For me, I want to see all of my favorite sports (Football, basketball, and baseball) utilize a 2D animation that is a smooth accurate representation of the play (of course while keeping a realistic engine.)

[Swaggs]

You are not alone. In the past couple years, I have bought a number of text sims (Total Pro Football, FOF2007, PureSim, EHM, OOTP6 & 6.5 and I'm sure others) and it seems in each case, I find something too laborsome/boring to continue playing for long periods of time. I pretty much now feel like it is a case of, "it isn't you, it's me," type of thing going on.

I'll probably give the new OOTP a shot, if the folks here generally like it, and I have been considering Bowl Bound College Football, but for right now the games on my computer that get the most (and really only) use are OOTP6.5, due to multiplayer, and FBCB, again due to multiplayer.

[14ers]

I wonder what you thought of EA's Head Coach?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by 14ers

I wonder what you thought of EA's Head Coach?

I never played it and only read the impressions from this forum. My end impression was that it was much like the Lakers with Karl Malone and Gary Payton; looked pretty good on paper, not so much in execution.

The fact that the EA logo was on the front should have been enough to prevent me being surprised, but I still managed to build my hopes up, only to have them dashed in true EA style.

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

You are not alone. In the past couple years, I have bought a number of text sims (Total Pro Football, FOF2007, PureSim, EHM, OOTP6 & 6.5 and I'm sure others) and it seems in each case, I find something too laborsome/boring to continue playing for long periods of time. I pretty much now feel like it is a case of, "it isn't you, it's me," type of thing going on.

Yup, that sums my feelings up pretty well too.

I'll probably give the new OOTP a shot, if the folks here generally like it, and I have been considering Bowl Bound College Football, but for right now the games on my computer that get the most (and really only) use are OOTP6.5, due to multiplayer, and FBCB, again due to multiplayer.

FWIW, BBCF is the most recent sim I've bought and I think it's great, and this is no doubt due to the fact that the only other option for college football is TCY, which I never much got in to. When I fire up TCY today I feel like I'm stepping in to a time machine and playing something that was designed in the mid-80s.

[Swaggs]

I may still get BBCF. It was real close to getting it during LOI signing day, last week, but still haven't pulled the trigger. I enjoyed TCY, although the time management allocation is a good example of a laborsome/boring phase that I often found myself not wanting to play through, but I am a WVU and Big East fan, and the BE is a mess in TCY since the last update was during the transition year after the ACC raid and there are only 7 teams in the conference.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I may still get BBCF. It was real close to getting it during LOI signing day, last week, but still haven't pulled the trigger. I enjoyed TCY, although the time management allocation is a good example of a laborsome/boring phase that I often found myself not wanting to play through, but I am a WVU and Big East fan, and the BE is a mess in TCY since the last update was during the transition year after the ACC raid and there are only 7 teams in the conference.

If you liked TCY, I think you will love BBCF.

[kingfc22]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If you liked TCY, I think you will love BBCF.

And then you can join the FOFC BBCF league.

[mrsimperless]

I just purchased BBCF yesterday and am loving it so far. Something about the interface just "feels" more like football and a modern game than TCY or FOF ever did to me.

[FBPro]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

If you liked TCY, I think you will love BBCF.

Even if you didn't like TCY you can still like BBCF. I played BBCF more in the first week than in all the time I've owned TCY.

[Bee]

I don't think there is another single "big step" coming anytime soon. I think we'll be getting small improvements a year at a time like now. The FM series seems to lead the way in most things like the 2D match display and the level of interaction available. I like what OOTP is doing with historic leagues and also dipping their toes into having HS/College leagues feeding into the professional leagues is a nice step in the direction I'd like to see games take. Last night I downloaded the Draft Day Basketball game from Wolverine and I think they did a great job with improving the draft and adding comments and a draft day show. I think those types of things will continue to be added to other games over the next few years and slowly we'll see an improvement in the immersion level of these games but I just don't see anything making a massive impact to text sims.

[Drake]

I have to agree on the 2D representation. I wasn't a huge fan of Puresim, but I could watch that little 2D baseball fly around the park for hours.

[Coder]

In a non-ranking sort of list:

1) 2D representation
2) Full customizability (I love the fictional leagues as well as being able to re-create historic setups)
3) Inclusion of the "world"-aspect. For Football, that would be college/pro, but for sports like baseball, basketball, hockey and soccer, adding additional leagues (be it in a minimal non-play-yourself way) adds a lot of immersion.

For 3, I don't need the ability to PLAY as a GM or whatever in any other leagues than the pro, but that's just me personally. However, I do want to see my prospects develop or draftclasses play before they're drafted etc.

Number 2 is a major factor for me though, as I have a thing for fictional leagues. For hockey, I'd love to have a fictional 20-team league battle it out for a few years...

To be honest, I think OOTP2007 really caters to several of my "wants". The customizability combined with a good engine, the ability to import historical seasons and recreate history (either following the "real world" closely, or creating your own "alternate" universe) really makes it a game I'm interested in.

[Swaggs]

I'll just throw this one out there, but, despite all of its flaws, I really liked the personality traits in Baseball Mogul 2006 (which I assume are also in 2007). Having a set of characteristics that gives a player a "personality," is a cool aspect in a text sim--particularly when they have affinities and conflicts with other players. FOF has had the conflicts and affinities and cohesion for awhile now, too, and that works well for a sports sim where you have a huge roster, but I like BB Mogul's setup better for a sport with a smaller roster, like baseball/basketball/hockey.

[Icy]

Originally Posted by Swaggs

I'll just throw this one out there, but, despite all of its flaws, I really liked the personality traits in Baseball Mogul 2006 (which I assume are also in 2007). Having a set of characteristics that gives a player a "personality," is a cool aspect in a text sim--particularly when they have affinities and conflicts with other players. FOF has had the conflicts and affinities and cohesion for awhile now, too, and that works well for a sports sim where you have a huge roster, but I like BB Mogul's setup better for a sport with a smaller roster, like baseball/basketball/hockey.

That is exactly what makes Football Manager to shine, players personalities. I have been asking for this to every text sim developer, it adds a lot to roster managing apart from stats.