A Thought On Mentors

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I can only base this on one or two anectodal cases; but do some of you think that some mentors are better than others? As in the higher skilled the mentor the better improvement of his mentee. I'm starting to think this. Or is what I'm seeing just a function of the fact all players develop at different speeds (this I am sure about) and all I was probably seeing was a coincidence of a lousy skilled mentor with a slow developing player? I'm interested in others' thoughts on this.

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I think mentors & leaders may have an effect on the team in ways that have to do with their skills...

This was in 2k4, but I had a team where the secondary was just snatching balls out the air. It was amazing the number of pics I was racking up. My seconsary leader was also the safety mentor. He had high ratings in intercetions, but nothing else. Yet, when he went in a game, he seemed to get his hands on the ball and even ran a couple back for scores. In free agency I lost him, and my secondary couldn't buy a pick. He was available again and I brought him back... Voila! We once again became a secondary full of ballhawks!

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I can only base this on one or two anectodal cases; but do some of you think that some mentors are better than others? As in the higher skilled the mentor the better improvement of his mentee. I'm starting to think this. Or is what I'm seeing just a function of the fact all players develop at different speeds (this I am sure about) and all I was probably seeing was a coincidence of a lousy skilled mentor with a slow developing player? I'm interested in others' thoughts on this.

I have wondered about this as well.

In the NAFL I had Peyton Manning mentoring a young QB last year, and I was sure Manning was a great mentor as my second year QB made nice gains, around 10-12 points in current, during the season without even playing a snap.

In the offseason I traded Manning away to let the young guy take over the starting job, and he has developed faster than any other QB I've ever had in MP with no mentor. He's gained about 15 points in current through the first half of the season.

It's still anecdotal, of course, but basically in this case it certainly seems that Manning wasn't a great mentor, just that this guy is a fast developer.

[timmynausea]

I should also point out that my example was in 2k4.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by timmynausea

In the offseason I traded Manning away to let the young guy take over the starting job, and he has developed faster than any other QB I've ever had in MP with no mentor. He's gained about 15 points in current through the first half of the season.

Hmm, I think this is more to do with him being the starter. Nothing trumps playing time in terms of player development, unless you couple it with a mentor. Actually, 12 points in 2K4 for a backup is good mentoring. I had some mentors only help a backup by 2-3 points (these of course were the low-skilled mentors) which in part is the reason I started this thread.

[timmynausea]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

Hmm, I think this is more to do with him being the starter. Nothing trumps playing time in terms of player development, unless you couple it with a mentor. Actually, 12 points in 2K4 for a backup is good mentoring. I had some mentors only help a backup by 2-3 points (these of course were the low-skilled mentors) which in part is the reason I started this thread.

Yeah, playing time is the most important factor, and had my young QB sat on the bench with no mentor he wouldn't have gained any points. However, I think the reason he gained 10 instead of 2 or 3 is that he is just a fast developer and has nothing to do with who the particular mentor was. I think the fact that he is rapidly reaching his max potential this year without a mentor kind of proves that.

I went back to double check the numbers, and I think they back up my theory: my backup QB went up 10 points over the course of the year while my rookie 3rd string went up 4. (Both gained one point during the preseason.) Neither played at all during the regular season.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Yes. Good point. Perhaps then the skill of the mentor is not important. It's not conclusive, but your experience would show that. I'm going to start paying a lot more attention to this in upcoming seasons to see if I can figure it out more.

[michael1123]

Here's something I've always wondered. Does the mentor still help if they're on the inactive roster, or do they need to at least be playing somewhat (such as a backup guard)?

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by michael1123

Here's something I've always wondered. Does the mentor still help if they're on the inactive roster, or do they need to at least be playing somewhat (such as a backup guard)?

Check this thread out. It was a pretty good study of mentors in 2K4. The basic conclusion of the study was that both the mentor and mentee had to be on the active roster. As for 2K7, no one really knows or has done a published study. Take it for what it's worth.

http://www.operationsports.com/fofc/...hlight=mentors

[MrBigglesworth]

There are a lot more mentors now. It may have gone from, given a certain threshold of int and leadership, there being a CHANCE that they become a mentor, to a certainty.

[stevew]

Has anyone had time to play around with conflicts and affinities of mentors? Especially QB's, since it's a high profile position. I just wonder if there is a correlation between strong affinity mentor/pupil and increased development. Honestly though, in some limited testing I did, there always seemed to be a pretty large spread as to how much a mentor helped in one season of development for a QB. Sometimes the guy would develop to 55 from 30 playing the whole year, other times 65-70.

[Raiders Army]

Originally Posted by stevew

Has anyone had time to play around with conflicts and affinities of mentors? Especially QB's, since it's a high profile position. I just wonder if there is a correlation between strong affinity mentor/pupil and increased development. Honestly though, in some limited testing I did, there always seemed to be a pretty large spread as to how much a mentor helped in one season of development for a QB. Sometimes the guy would develop to 55 from 30 playing the whole year, other times 65-70.

QBs don't have conflicts and affinities with one another. They have conflicts and affinities with other leaders. That being said, maybe there's something that has to do with the QB style. For instance, if you have a QB you want to develop that has a style of Long Passes, should you get a mentor that has that same style?

[Warhammer]

I've had some mentors that have seemed to have very little impact on the rate of player development. But I don't have anything concrete to back it up.

[QuikSand]

Sounds like we're a bit short of drawing any conclusions. One season or career here or there (in the defunct version of the game, even) isn't going to resolve much.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

I agree. I also thought different mentors have different effects, but I think what you often see in that case is simply young players that have inherently different rates of development.

I will add on anecdotal story. I have a 6th round rookie CB that went from 21/39 pre draft to 26/48 post draft. Looks like a nice boom/potential guy. I have a mentor who is the best CB in the league (solid red bars everywhere), and with whom the rookie has an exceptional affinity. After starting in 4 preseason games and playing dimeback in 3 regular season games, the rookie CB has increased ZERO ratings points. My CB was active all 7 weeks. On top of that my other 3 young CBs have increased 3 and 4 points each. One of those guys isn't even in the depth chart.

So what does that tell us. At least one thing perhaps: no matter how good your mentor is, he is not going to improve a player who has an inherently bad rate of player development.

[Warhammer]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

I agree. I also thought different mentors have different effects, but I think what you often see in that case is simply young players that have inherently different rates of development.

I will add on anecdotal story. I have a 6th round rookie CB that went from 21/39 pre draft to 26/48 post draft. Looks like a nice boom/potential guy. I have a mentor who is the best CB in the league (solid red bars everywhere), and with whom the rookie has an exceptional affinity. After starting in 4 preseason games and playing dimeback in 3 regular season games, the rookie CB has increased ZERO ratings points. My CB was active all 7 weeks. On top of that my other 3 young CBs have increased 3 and 4 points each. One of those guys isn't even in the depth chart.

So what does that tell us. At least one thing perhaps: no matter how good your mentor is, he is not going to improve a player who has an inherently bad rate of player development.

True, I was basing this on a guy that added very little to 4 or 5 players. They basically developed at 4-5 points each year.

EDIT: That was with regular play time and the mentor. Took each player about 4-5 years to come close to full development.

[Dutch]

I'm on board with the theory that a mentor can only assist in getting a player to reach his potential faster...not increase his potential.