OT: Home Gyms

[bryce]

I'm considering getting a home gym, so I thought I'd see if anyone has any recs if they have one. I'm not hardcore at all, I don't need a professional system. I only lift weights twice a week, and only do 5-6 machines, all upper body, just to stay toned and keep up strength, so if I could duplicate those exercises with a home machine, I'd be content. (I do the bike, core exercises, and run/swim for other activity, all of which I can do at home, and since I'm probably getting a puppy next week, and I'm single and work quite a bit, I'm considering adding weights to my home reportoire just to be around a little more during those evenings for the sake of the dog. And my house, carpeting, furniture, etc etc.)

So, namely, I'm looking for something that incorporates bicep curl, butterfly, lat pull, shoulder press, and seated chest. Ideally, something that is delivered and assembled for me, either on site or delivered intact, would work out best, as the last thing I need to be doing is lifting weights on something I put together - that would be a death wish. Looking for about 200 pounds of resistance or so. I'm not set on a price, but certainly under $1000 is my goal, which I assume to be reasonable... Also, the set needs to be compact and be able to fit in a normal bedroom along with an exercise bike (one room in my house is an exercise room.)

I've seen ads in papers and whatnot for some inexpensive sets that looked to have everything I wanted, but the one I went to check out based on an ad, at Sears I think for about $300-400, seemed shoddy and not very trustworthy. I've checked out Academy, which had nothing, and Sports Authority, which had massive units only, if I remember right.

Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks in advance.

[lordscarlet]

I would recommend getting dumbbells, a rack for them, and a bench.

[CU Tiger]

A free weight rack and bench would be my first purchase, however for someone who lives alone and is looking for moderate resistance training I think it would be dangerous and very cost inefficient. Quality dumbells will run $20-$50 EACH so for each weight range you need 2 of those. Cheap dumbells are a death wish. I had a Sears set have the end slide off the handle of a 90lbs dumbell while doing decline presses...hurt like hell but could havee beeen worse.

If your area is anything like mine, check craigslist. The rich socialites regualrly buy ultra high end stuff for a new years resolution and about thia time realize it is just takig up space. A friend scored a $3500 set last year that was ~6months old for $400. And it looked untouched.

Stay away from "band" or body weight/pulley based systems. They will ddecreease is resistance and usefullness based on theirr inherent design. You want something name brand and with plates.

[primelord]

A power rack, bench, barbell, and some weights is all you need.

[primelord]

Dola,

You would be far better off getting a power rack, bench and a barbell and doing a few compund exercise instead of all those isolation exercises.

Day 1:
Squats
Bench Press
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Squats
Standing Presses
Barbell Rows

That would make you far stronger overall than your current routine. It would give you less exercises to do and would actually train your body for the kind of strength you actually use in day to day movements.

[14ers]

Check ebay for auctions in your area that are listed as Pick-Up only. Used fitness equipment sells for pennies on the dollar on ebay.


Before spending your $1,000 join a gym and see how often you go. Afraid of gyms: try your local YMCA, or your local Hospital. I am currently training at my local Hospital for $26.95 per month with no contract.

[BYU 14]

If you do go the home gym route I would recommend the Bowflex extreme. I have been very happy with mine and thougn I have lost some mass that really only comes with free weights, it is easier on my many injuries and has allowed me to maintain my strength and is very compact and convenient.

[14ers]

Originally Posted by primelord

Dola,

You would be far better off getting a power rack, bench and a barbell and doing a few compund exercise instead of all those isolation exercises.

Day 1:
Squats
Bench Press
Deadlifts

Day 2:
Squats
Standing Presses
Barbell Rows

That would make you far stronger overall than your current routine. It would give you less exercises to do and would actually train your body for the kind of strength you actually use in day to day movements.

Only if you are a 16 year old kid about to hit puberty, should you attempt a compound lifting program like this. This program is strickly for the young starting out wanting to build mass and get a good base.

For the over 25 crowd I would say run away from any type of program like this as it will destroy your joints. Exercises that isolate the muscle will save your joints in the long run. Throw away the straps, the wraps, and the belts immediately, they only create weak joints. Use a lighter weight with strict form and you will see excellent results from your weightlifting routine and be injury free.

And, please get on a total body program for your health. Yes, you do have to work your legs to improve your overall health.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Only if you are a 16 year old kid about to hit puberty, should you attempt a compound lifting program like this. This program is strickly for the young starting out wanting to build mass and get a good base.

I feel sorry for the 16 year old kid who hasn't hit puberty yet.

[primelord]

Originally Posted by 14ers

Only if you are a 16 year old kid about to hit puberty, should you attempt a compound lifting program like this. This program is strickly for the young starting out wanting to build mass and get a good base.

For the over 25 crowd I would say run away from any type of program like this as it will destroy your joints. Exercises that isolate the muscle will save your joints in the long run. Throw away the straps, the wraps, and the belts immediately, they only create weak joints. Use a lighter weight with strict form and you will see excellent results from your weightlifting routine and be injury free.

That's just silly. I know countless people all well over 25 who have been doing routines similar to that (based around squats and deads) for quite a long time and their joints are just fine. Compound lifts like squats are only damaging to your knees if you do them incorrectly. If you don't get your hips below parallel then yes you are going to be putting too much force on your knees. A properly executed squat where your hips get below parallel and then you use your hips to lift out of the squat does not put a strain on your knees.

It's absurd to think a workout like that is only for high school athletes. I agree the specific routine I laid out is for developing a very strong base, but that is certainly not limited to high school aged people. bryce said he doesn't work out his legs and would benefit tremendously from adding squats and deadlifts into his workouts. People get hurt doing compound lifts because they are not following proper form and are in too big of a hurry to lift heavier weights. As long as the proper form is followed and you are using the appropriate weight squats and deadlifts are prefectly safe. And that is without the use of belts or straps.

[BYU 14]

Originally Posted by primelord

That's just silly. I know countless people all well over 25 who have been doing routines similar to that (based around squats and deads) for quite a long time and their joints are just fine. Compound lifts like squats are only damaging to your knees if you do them incorrectly. If you don't get your hips below parallel then yes you are going to be putting too much force on your knees. A properly executed squat where your hips get below parallel and then you use your hips to lift out of the squat does not put a strain on your knees.

It's absurd to think a workout like that is only for high school athletes. I agree the specific routine I laid out is for developing a very strong base, but that is certainly not limited to high school aged people. bryce said he doesn't work out his legs and would benefit tremendously from adding squats and deadlifts into his workouts. People get hurt doing compound lifts because they are not following proper form and are in too big of a hurry to lift heavier weights. As long as the proper form is followed and you are using the appropriate weight squats and deadlifts are prefectly safe. And that is without the use of belts or straps.

I agree, I did squats past 40 with heavy weights and was fine....The injuries that caused me to back off free weights were all above the waist and related to other sports. The key as you get older is adequate rest and putting the right nutrition/supplements into your body. Aminos are a must as you get older to help aid recovery......

[Danny]

Get yourself a book of the kama sutra and a willing female. Best home gym around.

[biological warrior]

I got a bowflex a year ago and am very satisfied with the purchase. However, I still do free weights at least 1x weekly.

[rkmsuf]

Maybe Indoorsoccersim can design a workout for you. Check back to this thread in 16 months.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by primelord

That's just silly. I know countless people all well over 25 who have been doing routines similar to that (based around squats and deads) for quite a long time and their joints are just fine. Compound lifts like squats are only damaging to your knees if you do them incorrectly. If you don't get your hips below parallel then yes you are going to be putting too much force on your knees. A properly executed squat where your hips get below parallel and then you use your hips to lift out of the squat does not put a strain on your knees.

It's absurd to think a workout like that is only for high school athletes. I agree the specific routine I laid out is for developing a very strong base, but that is certainly not limited to high school aged people. bryce said he doesn't work out his legs and would benefit tremendously from adding squats and deadlifts into his workouts. People get hurt doing compound lifts because they are not following proper form and are in too big of a hurry to lift heavier weights. As long as the proper form is followed and you are using the appropriate weight squats and deadlifts are prefectly safe. And that is without the use of belts or straps.

There is so much mis-information in this thread I dont know wheeree to start. In order to get your "hips below parallel" you have 2 choices. 1would be to bend at the waist to engage the hip flexors, I probably dont need to tell you why this is wrong. The other is to get your knees past parallel. DO NOT DO THIS. My orthopedic surgeon can show you why

The ligaments of the knee are designed to provide lateral stability and aid in muscular extension.

The mere act of aquating down with heavy eight on your should repeatedly forces your ligaments to act in a maanner they are not desinged or equipped for. If the knee (or thigh, which is an easier way to envision it) gets past parallel the joint has been removed from the equation and your ligaments are holding your knee joint from seeparating. They can manage this without weight, with even medium weight, damage begins.

Squats are a GREAT excercise. And work several large muscle groups simultaneously and effectively, but you should never go below parallel with a squat, regardless off what quadzilla says. The squat should work your quads, hams, lower back, and glutes, the flexors should really not be engaged at all in this exercise.

I *believe* where yourr opinon stems from, is the wealth of mis-information spewed on maximizing the "effectiveness" of squats. Just remember the most effective muscle builder is NOT necessarily the best form to prevent long term damage.

And the squat should be used with light to moderate weight, perfect form, and high reps. Any coach in America that has players 1 rep maxing on the squat needs to be suspended. But then again I may be biased. My knee exploded in HS while "maxing out" in the squat rack, despite have plenty of leg strength to complete the lift, the joint couldnt survive.

[Godzilla Blitz]

When our son was born a few years ago, my wife and I quit our health club membership and got a Nordic Track GRT500 weight training station with the side leg bench for under a grand.

Don't know if they can still be found, but the thing has been indestructible. It's been perfect for moderate weight workouts.

[primelord]

First let's make sure we are all on the same page here. When I say you need to go below parallel, I am not suggesting you need to sit your ass on the floor. Getting your hips parallel to just below parallel is the proper way to complete a squat.

From Medicine & Science in Sports and Exercise:

Quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity generally increased as knee flexion increased, which supports athletes with healthy knees performing the parallel squat (thighs parallel to ground at maximum knee flexion) between 0 and 100[degrees] knee flexion. Furthermore, it was demonstrated that the parallel squat was not injurious to the healthy knee.

The squat does not compromise knee stability, and can enhance stability if performed correctly. Finally, the squat can be effective in developing hip, knee, and ankle musculature, because moderate to high quadriceps, hamstrings, and gastrocnemius activity were produced during the squat.

So that article suggests that squats are perfectly safe for a healthy knee all the way to 100 degrees which is below parallel. The farther down you go the more the muscles in your hamstrings are worked. High partial squats only focus on the quads and they put a forward shearing force on your knees. Getting to parallel or below is much safer on your knees. Another real problem with a partial squat is that people can lift more weight doing partial squats and they tend to end up doing too much weight because of it. Not giving equal development to their hamstrings (which help protect the knee especially the ACL) and usuing too much weight is what leads to most injuries with squats.

Again info from the Medicine & Science in Sports and Exercise:

And cotton swabs are dangerous when you push them too far into your ears. It's a matter of knowing what you're doing. A recent study in Medicine & Science in Sports & Exercise found that "open-chain" exercises—those in which a single joint is activated, such as the leg extension—are potentially more dangerous than closed-chain moves—those that engage multiple joints, such as the squat and the leg press. The study found that leg extensions activate your quadriceps muscles slightly independently of each other, and just a 5-millisecond difference in activation causes uneven compression between the patella (kneecap) and thighbone, says Anki Stensdotter, the lead study author.

This suggests that squats are safer for you than isolation exercises such as leg extensions.

Like many people I was scared of squats before I started doing them. I heard all the horror stories about how bad they were for your knees and you you were better off on a machine. I did A LOT of reading and research on my own and I am now convinced that squats are completely safe and a correct squat is just below parallel. I will concede that a range of just below to parallel to just above parallel is ok. I will not concede that doing a quarter squat is safe. You need to be trying to get to parallel. You should be squatting with just the bar until you can reach parallel or just below before you put any weight on.

I am going to leave it at that. The combination of the research I have done, the long running routines several of my friends have done, and the squats that I have done myself tell me that I am correct. I recommend that if anyone is concerned they go out and do the research themselves. There is plenty of it out there and not just in places like body building forums.

There is absolutely no reason squats need to only be done with light weight and high reps. First off high rep and low rep routines accomplish different goals. Restricitng yourself to only high rep routines is just silly. Very heavy weights can be safely squatted. The key is understanding what the proper weight for you is. You should always start out light and then slowly add weight as you progress. You can absolutely do safe squats with heavier weight and low reps which is optimal for strength building.

[Uncle Briggs]

The whole notion of "never squat past parallel" is based on one study about 30 years ago. The methodology and conclusions of that study have since been discredited. One of the big bodybuilding figures (mught have been Joe Wieder) was responsible for spreading this philosophy in the 70's, IIRC.

Shear force on your knee, as has been mentioned, is greater if you stop at parallel instead of going all the way down. Your body is designed to squat ass (almost) to the ground. If you don't believe me, look at how a small child sqauts, before a lifetime of sitting in chairs and lack of physical activity tightens the joints up.

And there is the caveat; most people are too tight in the hips and hamstrings to squat properly. Work into it with low weights and good form and most people will be able to squat all the way down. You want to move a lot of weight at the gym sooner, do partial squats. You want your hips & knees to love you, learn to do them all the way down, even if you have to use a humblingly low weight.

[CU Tiger]

Originally Posted by primelord

First let's make sure we are all on the same page here. When I say you need to go below parallel, I am not suggesting you need to sit your ass on the floor. Getting your hips parallel to just below parallel is the proper way to complete a squat.

I have no problem with this definition. The guys who try to get their glutes on their calves are what I was refering to. This IS dangerous and I want to make sure we aren't mis-guiding anyone.

Originally Posted by primelord

So that article suggests that squats are perfectly safe for a healthy knee all the way to 100 degrees which is below parallel. The farther down you go the more the muscles in your hamstrings are worked.

Again we are probably on the same page, and I may have jumped to a conclusion that you were suggesting something you were not. I personally think a 100deg. knee bend is pushing the limit, but not grotesquely unsafe

Originally Posted by primelord

High partial squats only focus on the quads and they put a forward shearing force on your knees. Getting to parallel or below is much safer on your knees. Another real problem with a partial squat is that people can lift more weight doing partial squats and they tend to end up doing too much weight because of it. Not giving equal development to their hamstrings (which help protect the knee especially the ACL) and usuing too much weight is what leads to most injuries with squats.

Again very well stated.
I in now way would encourage partial bend or "bounce" squats. No matter what Bill Phillips published then denied.

In my experience this is generally someone who is trying to lift more weight than they can manage.

And the nugget in there is bolded

Originally Posted by primelord

This suggests that squats are safer for you than isolation exercises such as leg extensions.

Like many people I was scared of squats before I started doing them. I heard all the horror stories about how bad they were for your knees and you you were better off on a machine. I did A LOT of reading and research on my own and I am now convinced that squats are completely safe and a correct squat is just below parallel. I will concede that a range of just below to parallel to just above parallel is ok. I will not concede that doing a quarter squat is safe. You need to be trying to get to parallel. You should be squatting with just the bar until you can reach parallel or just below before you put any weight on.

I dont think we could agree more surprisingly. I am also not a huge isolation excercis fan. Block/base exercise will consistently produce better more sustainable results.

Originally Posted by primelord

I am going to leave it at that. The combination of the research I have done, the long running routines several of my friends have done, and the squats that I have done myself tell me that I am correct. I recommend that if anyone is concerned they go out and do the research themselves. There is plenty of it out there and not just in places like body building forums.

And ultimately listen to your body. What is comfortable and "safe" to me might strain your body and the reciprocal of course applies. we are all different

Originally Posted by primelord

There is absolutely no reason squats need to only be done with light weight and high reps. First off high rep and low rep routines accomplish different goals. Restricitng yourself to only high rep routines is just silly. Very heavy weights can be safely squatted. The key is understanding what the proper weight for you is. You should always start out light and then slowly add weight as you progress. You can absolutely do safe squats with heavier weight and low reps which is optimal for strength building.

re-reading my post, I did not clearly state my point there. When I am refering to "low weight" I am talking in the 1.5-2.5 x body weight range with reps in the 8-15 range. I do not think there is a place for squats in the 3-5 x body weight in 1-3 rep sets. As some "experts" have recently been pushing. High/Low has some relavence. This just happens to piggy back an ongoing argument we have been having at the gym for thee last few weeks.

AND I MAINTAIN THAT THERE IS NO USEFULLNESS IN 1 REP MAX SETS. Especially subjecting HS aged gus to "compete" and encouraging them to attempt more than they can safely control.

Originally Posted by Uncle Briggs

The whole notion of "never squat past parallel" is based on one study about 30 years ago. The methodology and conclusions of that study have since been discredited. One of the big bodybuilding figures (mught have been Joe Wieder) was responsible for spreading this philosophy in the 70's, IIRC.

My "notion" is based upon the advice given to me the surgeon who did 3 of my knee surgeries.(3 of 17)

He is a widely recgonized sports physiolygist (sp?) and kinesiologist based in Birmingham Alabama and has done numerous surgeries on very high profile athletes.

Weider, is well
Weider:1970s::Bill Phillips:1990s

Originally Posted by Uncle Briggs

Shear force on your knee, as has been mentioned, is greater if you stop at parallel instead of going all the way down. Your body is designed to squat ass (almost) to the ground. If you don't believe me, look at how a small child sqauts, before a lifetime of sitting in chairs and lack of physical activity tightens the joints up.

Your body is designed to squat and lift things, agreed.
It is not designed to repeatitvely squat and stand in a vertical plane with no joint rotation with copious quantities of weight balanced upon your shoulders.

Our natural squat motion was to lift heavy objects off the ground. For that reason I prefer a deep deal lift in a double triangle bar myself. If you delete the wrist wraps, you are limited to lifting what you can physically grip, and if overloaded you have an exit strategy that doesnt include joint hyper compression.

Kids do squat deep, before their tendons and ligaments thicken, and they develop a muscle mass. Also take any child and press upon their shoulders when they are in the ass down squat, they will fall and roll back, again its basic physiology.

Originally Posted by Uncle Briggs

And there is the caveat; most people are too tight in the hips and hamstrings to squat properly. Work into it with low weights and good form and most people will be able to squat all the way down. You want to move a lot of weight at the gym sooner, do partial squats. You want your hips & knees to love you, learn to do them all the way down, even if you have to use a humblingly low weight.

I think there is 1 gem in there for anyone.
Perfect formis imperative. Do not compromise form for any "gain"
If you practice perfect form the weight will quantify quickly enough..

[lighthousekeeper]

i heartily second the ebay route. I bought a universal weight thingamjiggy for about $20 and it has worked well for me and my wife for the past 2 years. I consider anyone who buys homegym equipment new to be a sucker (except for treadmills).