I have never been called..

[Karlifornia]

I have never been called a nigger


I'm half black, and in some parts that's considered too much to have basic rights. I have never been called a nigger, though. My question is for white people: Do you use the word? Does it make you uncomfortable when other people do? White people? Black people? Other people?

I think the answer to soothing the sensitivity towards the word 'nigger' is to use it as much as possible, to the point where nobody is shocked by it. It's kind of like Marilyn Manson.....Yeah, when you were 14 and saw him on MTV, you were shocked. But you saw him enough. and grew up with him, and now you know Marilyn Manson is about as scary as a toddler dressed in a pumpkin outfit.

Nigger! Embrace the word! We can make the magic happen together! As Tupac said: "There's both black and white smokin' crack tonight."

[MJ4H]

No, Yes, yes, yes.

[DeToxRox]

Nope I don't use it.

It gets awkward when someone you know is a racist use it. If it's someone I know is just making a joke, it's not as big a deal.

When black people use it I don't care because it offend them. If it doesn't bother them, why should it bother me?

[Groundhog]

No, Yes, Yes, No, Yes.

I admit that I use it rarely in jest when me and my friends are pretending to be gangstas, but I don't think it has the same relevance over here in Australia as it does in the States. I would certainly not say it if I were American, or as an insult to somebody under any circumstances.

[molson]

The other day, I was repeating a story to co-workers that involved someone else using the word, I could only say "n-word". I can't do it, even in jest, expect among my VERY closest friends who know I'm not a racist.

[MikeVic]

I don't use the word, and feel uncomfortable saying it to anyone. I'll only very rarely say "nigga" in a joking way with friends.

I don't like hearing it said by anyone. I still don't like swearing at all either... I say "frick" or "freaking" way more than I even use the f-word.

[Young Drachma]

Oh my goodness.

You know, I was gonna post in here and say "the n-word?" without reading the thread and then come to find out, that's precisely what it's about.

I think maybe you should move to a town, somewhere in the northeast. Live amongst all black people, to the point where pretty much everyone of note -- the mayor, city council and others --- are black. You'll find that nobody gives a damn, that it's not used nearly as much as the media would want you to believe it is...and that it's pretty much the black equivalent of the word redneck in its cautious embrace.

Except that, no one needs to go flaunting it. I mean, words have history. They have meaning and they have a legacy. And to rekindle that fire for the sole purpose of "desensitizing" ourselves under the guise of "progress" seems ill informed, short-sighted and well, downright silly if you ask me.

There are so many other more important things to focus on and worry about in the country and hell, even if we're just talking race 'relations' or whatever, there are so many more pragmatic steps we could take that would do a heck of a lot more good than trying to dredge up a word that should've died a long time ago.

In other words, no it's not okay for white people to use the word. It never will be. It hurts. It always will. Yes, it's a double standard. But if you hadn't noticed...that hasn't stopped us wonderful Americans in all sorts of other double standards we employ across the board in other situations or circumstances.

And people complain those just as much, yet the world keeps on turnin'.

Deal with that and move on.

P.S. I can't recall a time when anyone ever used it at me. It wouldn't be nearly as effective as some of the other things they can do, such as insulting your intelligence or something else. Or my personal favorite, "Wow, you're so different than those other black people."

I used to just smile uncomfortably. Now, I just look at them and usually say "stop watching MTV and join the rest of us in the real world....or go travel." It doesn't really happened since I moved somewhere that doesn't have very many folks o' color. They think it, it's just not said is all.

And I'm okay with that for the most part.

[BYU 14]

It drives my wife nuts when other Blacks use it and I can see her point. Despite the way it's used now by a lot of people, it still has negative roots and is disrespectful when all is said and done. Imagine Women walking around and saying "What up my Cunt" to each other........I relate it along the same lines.

But then again, to each their own. If some choose to use it as a term of endearment so be it....We can choose not to.

[molson]

Wait - Dark Cloud's Black?

[cartman]

Since you said you are half black, would the proper phrase be:

'Nig please' or 'Ger please'?

[spleen1015]

That word is posted on an almost daily basis in this forum.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Oh my goodness.

You know, I was gonna post in here and say "the n-word?" without reading the thread and then come to find out, that's precisely what it's about.

I think maybe you should move to a town, somewhere in the northeast. Live amongst all black people, to the point where pretty much everyone of note -- the mayor, city council and others --- are black. You'll find that nobody gives a damn, that it's not used nearly as much as the media would want you to believe it is...and that it's pretty much the black equivalent of the word redneck in its cautious embrace.

Except that, no one needs to go flaunting it. I mean, words have history. They have meaning and they have a legacy. And to rekindle that fire for the sole purpose of "desensitizing" ourselves under the guise of "progress" seems ill informed, short-sighted and well, downright silly if you ask me.

There are so many other more important things to focus on and worry about in the country and hell, even if we're just talking race 'relations' or whatever, there are so many more pragmatic steps we could take that would do a heck of a lot more good than trying to dredge up a word that should've died a long time ago.

In other words, no it's not okay for white people to use the word. It never will be. It hurts. It always will. Yes, it's a double standard. But if you hadn't noticed...that hasn't stopped us wonderful Americans in all sorts of other double standards we employ across the board in other situations or circumstances.

And people complain those just as much, yet the world keeps on turnin'.

Deal with that and move on.

P.S. I can't recall a time when anyone ever used it at me. It wouldn't be nearly as effective as some of the other things they can do, such as insulting your intelligence or something else. Or my personal favorite, "Wow, you're so different than those other black people."

I used to just smile uncomfortably. Now, I just look at them and usually say "stop watching MTV and join the rest of us in the real world....or go travel." It doesn't really happened since I moved somewhere that doesn't have very many folks o' color. They think it, it's just not said is all.

And I'm okay with that for the most part.

I dig what you are saying. It sounds rather sage to me. When I'm with the black half of my family it never never ever comes up. That's a given, though, because whenever everybody is of the same skin color, you can't use that as a dig. You have to go deeper, obviously. "Jamal....he a dumb motherfucker".

I see what you're saying about the desensitization (is that a word?) angle. I know that the word itself doesn't matter, but rather the emotion behind it. But that creates a paradox. If the word gets taken down to the level of "jerk" or "asshole" through diluting it, doesn't that then prevent racial faux pas' from occuring?

[cartman]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

That word is posted on an almost daily basis in this forum.

Do you read the forum through some sort of urban language translator software?

[molson]

Originally Posted by cartman

Do you read the forum through some sort of urban language translator software?

LOL-

I just did a search for "the word" on the forum, and the last time it was even mentioned was the Michael Richards thread, 4 months ago. It hasn't been uttered ONCE by ANYONE since then.

[Karlifornia]

Originally Posted by molson

LOL-

I just did a search for "the word" on the forum, and the last time it was even mentioned was the Michael Richards thread, 4 months ago. It hasn't been uttered ONCE by ANYONE since then.

Yeah, I was wondering about that comment. The word tends to stick out like a sore thumb, and I honestly couldn't remember even one thread that contained it.

[molson]

Looking at it further, the "n-word" was used on this forum exactly SIX times in 2006.

[LoneStarGirl]

I am a high school math teacher in Little Rock. I hear the N word about 20 times daily. It makes me sick. When I have called parents about their child's repeated use of the word, the parents always say they dont have a problem with it because its who they are. If I write the student up for saying it, they get Dhall and come right back. I hate that word and I think it shows ignorance when people use it.


Also, I thought only Pumpy and Skydog were the only two black posters here.... I would probably be amazed about how many there are on FOFC

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by molson

Wait - Dark Cloud's Black?

An indie rock loving, Wyoming living, tennis playing since he was nine years old, New Jersey native....brotha.

[molson]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

An indie rock loving, Wyoming living, tennis playing since he was nine years old, New Jersey native....brotha.

I took a somewhat similar life path to you - Boston/NYC/Jersey City to Boise, ID. I still haven't gotten used to the whiteness of my new city, and I'm a white guy.

[Young Drachma]

Though it tells you that the characters have changed over the years. Because I know that at one point, during a brief period when I changed my user name on the forum from Dark Cloud to Omnivore -- in a photo thread no less -- people were like "wait, I knew that looked like Ron, but...who is this Omnivore guy?

Which is part of why that name change lasted less than 48 hours.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

Also, I thought only Pumpy and Skydog were the only two black posters here.... I would probably be amazed about how many there are on FOFC

Noop too, and I'm sure there are others that I'm forgetting...

Noop's brother Huve used to post here, and one of my favorite posters (HornedFrogPurple) who also seems to have disappeared is black as well.

[spleen1015]

Originally Posted by molson

LOL-

I just did a search for "the word" on the forum, and the last time it was even mentioned was the Michael Richards thread, 4 months ago. It hasn't been uttered ONCE by ANYONE since then.

What does H. N. I. C. mean to you folks?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by molson

I took a somewhat similar life path to you - Boston/NYC/Jersey City to Boise, ID. I still haven't gotten used to the whiteness of my new city, and I'm a white guy.

I've moved progressively west, I've been out here three years and spent six in the midwest before this...and the one thing I'm missing from home is the diversity. I mean, we had 40 languages spoken in my high school. I think that's the hardest part...and Colorado is nearby and I live in a college town and keep a really eclectic friend base (for Wyoming) but...sometimes, it's tough and I'm pretty damn cynical about it most of the time.

Which is pretty funny half of the time.

[Mustang]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

Wyoming living...brotha.

So YOU'RE the one..

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

What does H. N. I. C. mean to you folks?

Hides Now In Charleston, but that's just me.

[Logan]

I use the word every now and then among friends. And I say "nigga," not the hard "-er" version and yes, I think there's a difference. For the record, I'm 100% white. My black friends don't have a problem with it, and I think it actually started from them referring to us white guys as "niggas" in their conversations with us. I would never use it around a person that isn't used to how my friends and I speak, as I wouldn't want to make them uncomfortable or offend them.

I have a comment on the original post. Calling someone a "nigger," to me, implies hatred and disgust and pure racism. Referring to someone as a "nigga" is completely different. Examples: "That nigger just cut me off!" Terrible, and I would never say anything like that and don't think anyone ever should. "What are you niggas up to tonight?" has a different meaning.

Words to me are just words. As others have said, it's the meaning behind it...the way it's delivered, the tone, the circumstance, etc...that give words impact.

I have a question that I would like to get some input on. How do you feel about people that change the way they act depending on the racial company that they're with? I'm not just talking about Johnny Drama when he went to meet Turtle's future rap client ("I'm looking for a silky-smooth rhyming cat named Saigon...").

I have a co-worker who I trained with when we both came on as new hires, so I spent a good part of 8 months with him. He's black. When he's around his co-workers (we're a very diverse group), both during work and after work, he acts and speaks in a certain manner. When he gets on the phone with his friends, his manner of speaking completely changes. Word choice, tone, grammar, etc. He and I were in a mall one time and we ran into two of his friends (both black), and again, he acted so differently it was like he was a completely different person. Honestly, I feel bad for him but I don't know why: either because he feels the need to change his personality to be "accepted" by his co-workers, or because he feels the need to change his personality to be accepted by the people he calls his friends.

[SackAttack]

Originally Posted by Logan

"What are you niggas up to tonight?" has a different meaning.

If it gets put like that, it's probably a white guy trying to sound 'urban.' There are entirely too many prepositions in that phrasing for it to be uttered by a 'gangsta'.

[molson]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

What does H. N. I. C. mean to you folks?

Maybe there's one or two - but every other day? You're basically saying Skydog is preventing this place from being a KKK hang-out.

[Crapshoot]

When I lived in Ethiopia (where the people, fyi, insist they're neither white or black), I had some black friends who called me a half-nigga because I was brown. Keep in mind, this was 7th grade, but it was still a little... wierd.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Logan

When he gets on the phone with his friends, his manner of speaking completely changes. Word choice, tone, grammar, etc.

I don't know how on earth you could ever dig it out of the threads but there was a conversation about this that I remember both me & SD being a part of quite a few months back.

[DaddyTorgo]

oh lord. In before the lock

[DougWyatt]

What better ... cracker, white bread, honky ?

And why do these words carry so much less weight ?

[Logan]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't know how on earth you could ever dig it out of the threads but there was a conversation about this that I remember both me & SD being a part of quite a few months back.

Thanks, I'll try taking a look tomorrow.

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

oh lord. In before the lock

I would hope it doesn't come to that. If you can't have a rational discussion about a culturally and socially sensitive topic on FOFC, where can you have it?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by Logan

I have a question that I would like to get some input on. How do you feel about people that change the way they act depending on the racial company that they're with? I'm not just talking about Johnny Drama when he went to meet Turtle's future rap client ("I'm looking for a silky-smooth rhyming cat named Saigon...").

I have a co-worker who I trained with when we both came on as new hires, so I spent a good part of 8 months with him. He's black. When he's around his co-workers (we're a very diverse group), both during work and after work, he acts and speaks in a certain manner. When he gets on the phone with his friends, his manner of speaking completely changes. Word choice, tone, grammar, etc. He and I were in a mall one time and we ran into two of his friends (both black), and again, he acted so differently it was like he was a completely different person. Honestly, I feel bad for him but I don't know why: either because he feels the need to change his personality to be "accepted" by his co-workers, or because he feels the need to change his personality to be accepted by the people he calls his friends.

Someone PhD with too much time on their hands and no desire to study anything meaningful has dubbed this "codeswitching."

I attribute it largely to where you live, who you live around and what makes you comfortable v. uncomfortable.

I don't think that speaking in vernacular (I don't, though I'll pepper my language with slang once in a while if I'm talking my younger brother, so he'll actually hear what I'm saying..) is some sort of cultural thing like that one school board in California and later a bunch of academics tried to claim. Ebonics, whatever. It's a freakin' copout because they're too lazy to be real with these kids and say "look, it has nothing to do with being white. Or anything like that. But if no one knows what the hell you're talking about. No one is gonna give your ass a job. That's real talk.."

But back to "codeswitching" or whatever, I don't know that it's really a big deal. I mean, would you talk to your friends the same way you talk to your boss or coworkers who don't mean a lot to you? I mean, you might be cool at work, but it's not as if you two do a lot of hanging out together (maybe you do?) or if you grew up together.

I'm not sure it's entirely racial or at least, it doesn't necessarily have to be. But I do think there is a certain level of understanding and well, comfort that goes with interacting with someone who you feel like can sympathize and relate to experiences you might have had growing up and thus, you can let your guard down with and be more "real".

I'm not sure that explains the phenomenon, but I think that more than anything the segregation of our society probably plays a bigger part in the "shock" over this than anything else. If there was more interaction in genuinely organic ways, it would be pretty unlikely that this would be 1) as shocking or 2) that much an issue.

I'm sure someone with different experiences will see it differently. It's really hard for me to convey precisely what I think, because I mostly tie it to other issues that are far less cut and dry than this might be independently.

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by DougWyatt

What better ... cracker, white bread, honky ?

And why do these words carry so much less weight ?

Because folks who were called these things weren't legally subjugated while otherwise being taxpaying citizens and prior to that, recognized as property rather than people? Brewed in a coffee pot of 300 years of Hints, Allegations and Things Left Unsaid?

[molson]

Originally Posted by Logan

Thanks, I'll try taking a look tomorrow.

I would hope it doesn't come to that. If you can't have a rational discussion about a culturally and socially sensitive topic on FOFC, where can you have it?

Agreed - I have no idea where else on the Internet one could have a legitimate discussion about such things.

[Young Drachma]

What would this thread be with name dropping a Collective Soul album?

My work here is done...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Dark Cloud

I'm not sure it's entirely racial or at least, it doesn't necessarily have to be.

Oh, it's definitely not just racially based. That was part of the conversation in the old thread I referred to earlier, with the example of how my wife could quickly narrow down who I was talking to on the phone without the need of context or content simply by noticing my accent, word choice, phrasing, pace, etc. It's readily apparent when I'm talking to family members, as well as a completely different style with one friend in particular.

[cuervo72]

Originally Posted by BYU 14

Imagine Women walking around and saying "What up my Cunt" to each other

The thought of this made me chuckle, btw.

[Antmeister]

Originally Posted by LoneStarGirl

...Also, I thought only Pumpy and Skydog were the only two black posters here.... I would probably be amazed about how many there are on FOFC...

What the? Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I am not Black.



Anyways, this is a pretty interesting thread. In my instance, I don't use any variation of the word, but this is most likely because I have 2 parents who were raised in Birmingham, Alabama during the 50's and 60's. With that said, it seems that the word is being used today as a replacement of "brotha". Where I was growing up, this was starting to become popular in the late 80's (sometime when I was in high school), but it was only a race inclusive word. Although it doesn't bother me anymore, I don't respond to it at all.

And I though HNIC stood for "Head Nerd in Charge".

[M GO BLUE!!!]

I used to have no problem with the word depending on who was using it and in what context. I am white and was used to the word being used in the neighborhoods I lived (mostly black) and by my friends (ditto.)

Then it hit me how sad the commonality of the word is. The people who use it without malice would never have walked up to Malcolm X and said "What up, nigga!" Likewise they would have never said the same to Martin... I would have liked to hear what Frederick Douglas would have said to them, as the last man who called him the word to his face legally owned him.

It is a word born of ignorance and used in ignorance.

I do not use it, and ignore the usage of it by friends even when it is toward me. I wish that it was eliminated from everyday speech, but there are a great deal of disrespectful things in society I wish would dissolve into history.

[Lathum]

well we all know they can't tip...

***ducks****



completely kidding btw

[Ragone]

Reminds me of what bill cosby said.. most black youth today are ignorant

I believe the N word.. as well as "nigga" is extremely demeaning.. and really shouldn't be used by anyone.. black/white/yellow/purple

[Coder]

Originally Posted by spleen1015

What does H. N. I. C. mean to you folks?

Easy! Hockey Night In Canada... now give me another one.

[dawgfan]

Originally Posted by Antmeister

What the? Just because I can't sing doesn't mean I am not Black.

Gah! See, I knew I was overlooking someone...

[Franklinnoble]

[johnnyshaka]

Originally Posted by Coder

Easy! Hockey Night In Canada... now give me another one.

What he said.

As for the N-Word...no thanks. Don't like to hear it, let alone say it.

[Chief Rum]

I believe JIMG was referring to a thread in which Skydog talked about how he and his family talk completely differerent to one another--particularly he and his brothers--then they do out in "public" if you will. That he and his bros switch to an urban slang styled talk with each other without missing a beat, one they communicated with each other throughout growing up, but they are all well to do, educated people who speak "normal" (if you know what I mean) when around others. I thought it was fascinating.

All that said, I know I "codeswitch", and I am so white, my picture could probably be used in the dictionary for the word Caucasian. I talk completely differently with my brothers, my friends, women, guests at the restaurant I work at, coworkers and the general public. And I don't even think about it. I just fall into it. And I believe we all do it to an extent. Perhaps the differences aren't as pronounced as with middle class blacks, but there are still sharp differences.

[Logan]

Originally Posted by Chief Rum

I believe JIMG was referring to a thread in which Skydog talked about how he and his family talk completely differerent to one another--particularly he and his brothers--then they do out in "public" if you will. That he and his bros switch to an urban slang styled talk with each other without missing a beat, one they communicated with each other throughout growing up, but they are all well to do, educated people who speak "normal" (if you know what I mean) when around others. I thought it was fascinating.

All that said, I know I "codeswitch", and I am so white, my picture could probably be used in the dictionary for the word Caucasian. I talk completely differently with my brothers, my friends, women, guests at the restaurant I work at, coworkers and the general public. And I don't even think about it. I just fall into it. And I believe we all do it to an extent. Perhaps the differences aren't as pronounced as with middle class blacks, but there are still sharp differences.

I guess I agree with what you're saying. In no way was I trying to say that blacks are the only ones who do this sort of thing...my girlfriend yells at me for how I speak when I'm on the phone with my friends. For the guy who I was referring to, I was hesitant to use the words "normal" and "urban" to describe how he would act in the two situations because a) I didn't know which way was his true manner and b) saying "urban" just screams stereotypes. Maybe it's just as simple as him being more comfortable speaking and interacting with friends in a style he grew up with as he continued to mature and become more polished, like SD seems to experience.

[Draft Dodger]

hate the word, no matter how it's spelled or used.