Theory on Red Flag Players (possible spoiler)

[red95vette]

I've read other threads discussing red flag players and what impact they may have on a squad. I've developed a theory that could be tested (although I have not done so personally) that it has to do with chemistry (affinities and conflicts) albeit in a very sneaky way.

My guess is that a red flag player has the same affinities and conflicts that other players have ... but, with respect to conflicts they will NOT be reported to the user directly as such.

In other words, the red flag player may be creating a conflict, but you wouldn't be given a message that he is and the only way to determine whether he is (other than "cheating" and manually figuring out the chemisty) would be to see if the players on the squad are underperforming.

Just some food for thought. This could be totally off, but it's interesting to ponder.

[cthomer5000]

A thought I have is that they might foul up cohesion / chemistry in the opposite way that focusing on that stuff in training camp can help it.

That would make it something that would take an assload of attention to detail to catch.

[QuikSand]

Originally Posted by red95vette

(other than "cheating" and manually figuring out the chemisty)

Never heard this expressed quite this way... *shurg*

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by red95vette

....would be to see if the players on the squad are underperforming.

do you have a theory on how to objectively do this in a football text sim? Now that would be interesting.

[red95vette]

Quik -- I didn't use "cheating" with any negative connotation intent. I simply meant the process of calculating whether players would have affinities/conflicts based on the known way of doing so rather than some of us who ignore that and just wait to see whether the game reports those affinities/conflicts and then react to them.

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by yabanci

do you have a theory on how to objectively do this in a football text sim? Now that would be interesting.

Do what exactly? See whether players are underperforming? For example, if you have a red flag WR you've added to the squad and suddenly all other WR completion % go down and drop % go up, that's a pretty objective way to surmise the red flag player is probably causing the squad to underperform. Likewise with other player groups... but obviously it might take a season or two of comparative stats to be able to deduce this.

[red95vette]

Let's see "dola" is the correct term isn't it?

Originally Posted by red95vette

In other words, the red flag player may be creating a conflict, but you wouldn't be given a message that he is and the only way to determine whether he is (other than "cheating" and manually figuring out the chemisty) would be to see if the players on the squad are underperforming.

So along these lines... the actual test for this would be to calculate affinities/conflicts for a red flag player... or better yet sign players that would actually cause a conflict (based on the astrological thingy) and see if the game reports it or not to the user. If it does, then this idea is wrong.

As a follow-on... since I choose to play in reactive mode with regards to chemistry, as a rule I've personally decided to just avoid red flag players altogether. Now maybe if a 90/90 FA red flag comes up some day I may have to reconsider.

[MizzouRah]

I've always thought of a red flag player as someone who has a conflict with a leader - although, like you said,.. is not reported.

The question is though, is it like real life where a red flag CB doesn't cause as much trouble to his secondary leader as a red flag WR causing havoc to his QB?

[Dutch]

Red Flags originate in the amateur draft file. So it can't be a conflict with a leader before the player has a leader.

It could be one of the side-effects, of course.

[gstelmack]

Also keep in mind that chemistry is an optional feature, while Red Flag isn't.

[red95vette]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Also keep in mind that chemistry is an optional feature, while Red Flag isn't.

Very good point. That pretty much makes my idea dead-in-the-water. Cool, thanks.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by gstelmack

Also keep in mind that chemistry is an optional feature, while Red Flag isn't.

True... another mysery from Jim.

Might not have that much of an effect with chemistry off?

[red95vette]

True... another mysery from Jim.

That IMO is one of the cool things about FOF. There's a big of intrigue and that really hooks the player into thinking about things a lot more. Some other games use such simple AI/game play engines that once the player figures it out -- the challenge is gone.

[MizzouRah]

Some things are definitly vague, and that's fine with me.

[Bonegavel]

Anyone in an MP league with Jim know if he keeps Red Flag players on his team?

[Joker]

NEW MANUAL SAYS THIS....
RED FLAG LABEL:
THEY MAY HAVE A VERY NEGATIVE EFFECT ON TEAM CHEMISTRY.
OR THEY MAY NOT.
ITS UP TO YOU TO STUDY YOUR TEAMS ON-FIELD PERFORMANCE AND
MAKE THAT DETERMINATION ON YOUR OWN.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by JOKER

NEW MANUAL SAYS THIS....
RED FLAG LABEL:
THEY MAY HAVE A VERY NEGATIVE EFFECT ON TEAM CHEMISTRY.
OR THEY MAY NOT.
ITS UP TO YOU TO STUDY YOUR TEAMS ON-FIELD PERFORMANCE AND
MAKE THAT DETERMINATION ON YOUR OWN.

Which is what red95vette has been saying all along.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

So does that mean red-flag players are irrelevant in a a league with chemistry turned off??

[yabanci]

Originally Posted by red95vette

Do what exactly? See whether players are underperforming? For example, if you have a red flag WR you've added to the squad and suddenly all other WR completion % go down and drop % go up, that's a pretty objective way to surmise the red flag player is probably causing the squad to underperform. Likewise with other player groups... but obviously it might take a season or two of comparative stats to be able to deduce this.

Not objective at all. Unlike baseball, nothing in football happens independently; everything is interconnected and interdependent. On a pass play, the outcome is determined by, among other things, some combination of offensive play call, quarterback performance, receiver performance, pass blocking, defensive play call, pass rush, pass coverage, game situation (down and distance, field position, score, game clock), and, in a football sim, pure random chance. So if you see WR completion percentage go down, how do you objectively determine the exact cause? How can you pinpoint that a red flag player is to blame as opposed to any of these other factors? It's impossible. You might think it's due to a red flag player, but that's a purely subjective belief. You might be right or you might be wrong. There's no way to know for sure.

[red95vette]

Just disproved this theory after some extensive chemistry testing.

If a conflict exists between red flag players and the positional leader it will be reported.

I originally thought it might not be as I was able to hire a red flag FA that SHOULD have been in conflict with the positional leader but there was no indication. However, I then noticed this player's personality (as well as the positional leader's) was very weak. So I found a different suitable red flag with stronger personality and in fact the conflict WAS reported.

[MizzouRah]

Originally Posted by red95vette

Just disproved this theory after some extensive chemistry testing.

If a conflict exists between red flag players and the positional leader it will be reported.

I originally thought it might not be as I was able to hire a red flag FA that SHOULD have been in conflict with the positional leader but there was no indication. However, I then noticed this player's personality (as well as the positional leader's) was very weak. So I found a different suitable red flag with stronger personality and in fact the conflict WAS reported.

That's good to know and the only reason I could see for dropping a good red flag player or maybe dropping the conflicting leader if he's not an important part of your team.