Ping: JIMGA Re: FreeFM RIP

[Toddzilla]

John,

Looks like FreeFM is blowed up real good in NYC - except O&A keep their morning drive slot - and Philly.

Any insights if the same is going to happen in DC or elsewhere?

[JonInMiddleGA]

{stirs from too short nap after working 28 hours straight on a deadline project}

When I finally closed my eyes this morning Philly hadn't gotten the axe yet, so you're actually a little ahead of me at this point.

There's certainly a sentiment among the unwashed masses in the biz that says that if FM talk can't work (and indeed failed pretty spectacularly) in NYC then it won't work anywhere. I think that's probably true to a large extent but I personally figure it'll be a death a couple of stations at a time rather than anything like a mass purge of the attempt. If I had to guess, I'd say the general format (perhaps rebranded/repositioned in some places) will be around for at least another 18-24 months.

'Course that opinion & a few bucks will get you some overpriced coffee at Starbucks.

Mmm ... coffee.

[wade moore]

Just to think outloud - knowing that D&M's contract is up next year and supposedly Don is retiring after that, seems like that fits right in that 18-24 months... D&M have been slipping, the Junkies have done ok but they're nowhere near what Stern was, their mid-day mess has been iffy at best and they have nothing consistent in the evening...So, I could see them stumbling along until the D&M contract is up and then keeping the Junkies in the morning as a morning zooish show and then rock or whatever later in the day..The one thing about WJFK though is that it has been all talk for so long now, it may have longer legs than some of the other stations that are newer to FM talk...

[wade moore]

Here's what the sometimes questionable hxxp://www.dcrtv.com has to say on the issue..

CBS To Pull Plug On Free FM Talker In NYC, Maybe Philly - 5/24 - CBS Radio will discontinue the low-rated talk format at its Free FM outlet in NYC. Maybe in Philadelphia, too. With both stations, WFNY and WYSP respectively, flipping back to rock formats. We hear that Opie and Anthony will remain in morning drive, but former WJFK-FMers Ron and Fez, who did evenings on the Free FMer in NYC, have been given the boot. They're still heard on DC-based XM Satellite Radio. DCRTV hears that there are no plans to scrap the fulltime talk format at DC's Free FMer, WJFK-FM. But, don't be surprised if the Free FM branding gets dropped from 106.7. The NY Daily News has more.....

[DanGarion]

FreeFM seems to be doing good here in LA, at least during the afternoon drive, with the help of Tom Leykis.

[gottimd]

If the Junkies go off the air, I will burn down DC. Then I will burn down Baltimore. To continue my path of destruction, I will burn down Dover, just because its close and I can't stop burning cities down.

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by gottimd

If the Junkies go off the air, I will burn down DC. Then I will burn down Baltimore. To continue my path of destruction, I will burn down Dover, just because its close and I can't stop burning cities down.

Make sure you make it to Georgia, gotta do it like old times!

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by wade moore

the Junkies have done ok but they're nowhere near what Stern was

I'm quite certain that the Junkies, especially in the key demo (Males 18-49?) are crushing Howard Stern's ratings from the last year or two he was on the air. That's why WJFK is so hesitant to bump them to middays for O&A.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

I'm quite certain that the Junkies, especially in the key demo (Males 18-49?) are crushing Howard Stern's ratings from the last year or two he was on the air. That's why WJFK is so hesitant to bump them to middays for O&A.

That's news to me if so... I'm pretty sure that if they were it would be pretty big media news... last I knew they were doing the best of any Stern replacement - by having like 25% of his ratings...

[wade moore]

Dola: And don't get me wrong. .I love the Junkies and podcast them regulary.

[flere-imsaho]

FreeFM appeared to disappear off the radio about a week ago in San Francisco. I only know this because I would sometimes listen to the crazy talk shows (I never listen to talk shows back home in Chicago) after work on my way to pick up dinner, and all of a sudden they stopped.

However, they're still carrying the A's games.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

That's news to me if so... I'm pretty sure that if they were it would be pretty big media news... last I knew they were doing the best of any Stern replacement - by having like 25% of his ratings...

Unless they've have had a huge (like 4x) jump in the past couple of books, you're pretty much on the mark AFAIK.

From various snippets at dcrtv.com

From early 2006
We're told that Stern had a 5.5 in November, a 5.4 in December, and that the Junkies had a 2.3 morning drive share in January. In Baltimore, via WHFS, the news for the Junkies was even worse. In the age 25-to-54 demo, Stern's two last months produced a 5.9 and a 7.6. The Junkies had only a 1.8 morning drive share in January.

Since then, they've been hovering between 11th & 13th in the broad 12+ demo, listed as up a bit in their target, but then they've been getting their asses kicked hard by Elliot over on DC101 (they're in the double digits in Men while he's around 5th in the same demo), so there's hardly no way they're putting up anything better than about what half of what Stern was doing at the end.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Unless they've have had a huge (like 4x) jump in the past couple of books, you're pretty much on the mark AFAIK.

From various snippets at dcrtv.com

From early 2006
We're told that Stern had a 5.5 in November, a 5.4 in December, and that the Junkies had a 2.3 morning drive share in January. In Baltimore, via WHFS, the news for the Junkies was even worse. In the age 25-to-54 demo, Stern's two last months produced a 5.9 and a 7.6. The Junkies had only a 1.8 morning drive share in January.


Since then, they've been hovering between 11th & 13th in the broad 12+ demo, listed as up a bit in their target, but then they've been getting their asses kicked hard by Elliot over on DC101 (they're in the double digits in Men while he's around 5th in the same demo), so there's hardly no way they're putting up anything better than about what half of what Stern was doing at the end.

Thanks for looking that up, I just didn't have the chance at the time... to add to that quote from dcrtv, they were completely taken off of the Baltimore station..Again, it's quite possible they've improved, but I'm pretty confidant that they haven't improved enough to get above Stern, let alone crushing him - even if we are talking about a target demo, since that would be Stern's largest audience too..Again, I like the Junkies.. I've listened to them since they were on weekends and they are the only show I've gone to a live appearance for.. but I certainly don't think they are a show with the ratings that will keep an entire format alive.

[Buccaneer]

Jon seems to have pretty good access to radio information to cut and paste...for a seed salesman.

[SackAttack]

Always though Jon was an ad salesman, not seeds, Bucc.

[terpkristin]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Always though Jon was an ad salesman, not seeds, Bucc.

I'll go on record and say I've never had a clue as to what Jon does.

But he does seem to know a ton about radio stuff.

/tk

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Always though Jon was an ad salesman, not seeds, Bucc.

Once again, we need the "over the head" smiley for Josh...

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SackAttack

Always though Jon was an ad salesman, not seeds, Bucc.

Well, you're both sort of right

I am, as you said, in the advertising business. Since we're an ad agency technically I buy them (for clients) moreso than sell them.

Bucc was being rather clever. Although I'll admit to being surprised that anyone remembered it, he was referring to our largest client to date - Pennington Seed Company (the world's largest producer of grass seed). I mentioned our relationship with them here for the first time about a year ago when we resigned from the account.

And as for the radio stuff, prior to basically marrying into the ad agency side of things, I spent 13 years working for various radio stations in the suburbs/exurbs of Atlanta. Because of that background, I still keep pretty close watch on the comings & goings & subplots in & around the radio business.

[Buccaneer]

I still keep pretty close watch on the comings & goings & subplots in & around the radio business.

Do you have access to client or business information that is not available on the web?

I still get a chuckle out of the BIG NEWS that the major client was Pennington Seed Company [snicker]. I guess we don't appreciate grass seeds out here in Colorado and even if we did, hearing a commercial on the radio about seeds would not be high on list. I do, however, have a bias in that I hate all radio commercials - way too much noise, stupid sound effects, fast talkers and higher pitches. But radio is big business and popular, it doesn't need to me.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Buccaneer

Do you have access to client or business information that is not available on the web?

Not all that much. Other than the detailed ratings that we sometimes buy, I hear a few things from people still on the inside occasionally, but most of the stuff I talk about here is available to anybody that knows where to look & wants to spend a little time sifting through it. I like to think my background & just the amount of attention I try to pay to the subject helps me interpret/analyze things a little better than the average Joe/Jane on the street, but it really isn't rocket science.

I still get a chuckle out of the BIG NEWS that the major client was Pennington Seed Company [snicker]. I guess we don't appreciate grass seeds out here in Colorado and even if we did, hearing a commercial on the radio about seeds would not be high on list.

As far as the grass stuff goes, fescue is where a lot of the money is spent on consumer advertising & you're outside the "fescue belt", so it's perfectly normal that you don't get hit with it much. But from about Texas up through Missouri, across through Ohio all the way to the northeast and then all the way back down about as far south as central Georgia, there's a steady stream of ads from several companies (about 3-4 national brands plus various regional brands) pushing either their seed or the chemical lines (fertilizer, weed stopper, etc) every spring & again in the fall. Scott's is the big Kahuna in the industry, Pennington is #2 in the seed but our (well, their) sales are much closer than the enormous gap in their ad expenditures is. That's something we were always pretty proud of, and is probably one of the things we work harder at than most agencies, trying to get more out of less.

Spending $10 million in advertising is a lot easier than spending $1 million. But trying to find the best use of $100k or $10k segment is where things start to get hard.

[SnDvls]

Free FM got the ax yesterday in Phoenix

is there anywhere it still is going? major markets?

[DanGarion]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Free FM got the ax yesterday in Phoenix

is there anywhere it still is going? major markets?

Los Angeles.

Was Tom Leykis on your FreeFM in Phoenix?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Free FM got the ax yesterday in Phoenix

is there anywhere it still is going? major markets?

I think San Diego is changing as well.

Still going in a number of places... check the wikipedia entry

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Free FM got the ax yesterday in Phoenix

Oh No! That means Big O & Dukes are probably out of a job again. That stinks - they're really busted their humps to land and keep a gig.

WJFK in DC needs to shitcan Bill O'Rly and the dreck they have on in the evenings and bring back Big O & Dukes, El Hefe and J Dubs, and top it all of with Ron & Fez. Move O&A to morning drive, put the junks in in afternoon drive when Don and Mike disappear, put R&F on afterwards, and then slot the other two in middays and overnight, and you've got a great lineup.

[lcjjdnh]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Free FM got the ax yesterday in Phoenix

is there anywhere it still is going? major markets?

Still exist in Detroit.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

... and you've got a great lineup.

But you could also have more in excess salary than you could make up in increased ratings/sales, in other words a losing proposition.

Please note that I'm not saying that's what would happen, I'm just pointing out the possibility of it happening and why it's just as hard to put together any sort of radio "dream team" lineup as it is in most sports.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by SnDvls

Free FM got the ax yesterday in Phoenix

is there anywhere it still is going? major markets?

As cthomer pointed out, the wiki listing is probably as good as any.
As of today, here's what's left:
* Baltimore – WHFS 105.7 [2]
* Chicago – WCKG 105.9 [3]
* Dallas – KLLI 105.3 [4]
* Detroit – WKRK 97.1 [5]
* Los Angeles – KLSX 97.1 [6]
* Philadelphia – WYSP 94.1 [7]
* Washington, D.C. – WJFK-FM 106.7 [8]
* Pittsburgh – WTZN 93.7 [9]

The speculation in the industry is that all of them will shift to some other branding (such as "FM Talk") sooner rather than later, possibly in the next month. Actually, at least 4 of the list above (Baltimore, Chicago, Dallas, and Pittsburgh) are already identifying themselves on-air/online as something other than "Free FM", although no format changes have taken place in those markets.

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by dangarion

Los Angeles.

Was Tom Leykis on your FreeFM in Phoenix?

yup

[SnDvls]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Oh No! That means Big O & Dukes are probably out of a job again. That stinks - they're really busted their humps to land and keep a gig.

they are going back east again somewhere.

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Oh No! That means Big O & Dukes are probably out of a job again. That stinks - they're really busted their humps to land and keep a gig.

WJFK in DC needs to shitcan Bill O'Rly and the dreck they have on in the evenings and bring back Big O & Dukes, El Hefe and J Dubs, and top it all of with Ron & Fez. Move O&A to morning drive, put the junks in in afternoon drive when Don and Mike disappear, put R&F on afterwards, and then slot the other two in middays and overnight, and you've got a great lineup.

Ron & Fez just didnt' work in DC. Not sure why... they were kicking serious ass in their return here, but alas, the station got dumped. The had tripled the ratings in their daypart in 6 months. I'd be stunned if they end up back there.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Make that 5 of the remaining 8 that have changed on-air identity but not format.

(scroll to the bottom of today's)
http://www.radio-info.com/newsletter/

"Free" no more: Philly's WYSP. New slogan is "94 Talks." They'd also been using "Talk that rocks", which probably is too close to the "rocks" slogan employed by rival WMMR. GM David Yadgaroff tells the Inquirer they're sticking with talk, and won't return to the rock wars. The CBS station does rock out on its HD2 channel. But "Free FM" is gone on 94.1.

[Toddzilla]

DCRTV reports that Bill O'RLY is likely sacked from WJFK - who are they making room for, buddays?

[JonInMiddleGA]

Todd -- I made a quick circuit of my usual haunts & saw nary a peep about that rumor anywhere. Doesn't mean it's right or wrong, just means I got nothing.

[wade moore]

Ron and Fez maybe? I'm not sure, but certainly some short of show like that would fit MUCH better in that timeslot.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ron and Fez maybe? I'm not sure, but certainly some short of show like that would fit MUCH better in that timeslot.

what are the chances WJFK runs O&A live from 6-9 and then give the Junkies 10-2? It would be interesting to see what wins out, the Junkies' egos or their collective wish to sleep late.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

what are the chances WJFK runs O&A live from 6-9 and then give the Junkies 10-2? It would be interesting to see what wins out, the Junkies' egos or their collective wish to sleep late.

Actually, that seems quite feasible to me... I don't think Junkies would like it, but who has more power? I'd say O&A...

I think it would be potentially disasterous for their ratings though.. they might even be better off in the 7-10 slot and some newcomer locals or something in mid-days...

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Ron and Fez maybe? I'm not sure, but certainly some short of show like that would fit MUCH better in that timeslot.

From all i've heard, and this includes face-to-face conversation with people who are in the corporate ranks of CBS radio, I dont think R&F will be going back to the DC market, ever. Im pretty sure R&F weren't nuts about being there, and the feeling was kind of mutual. I think if they could do the show from New York, that might increase the odds they would even be interested. Plus, you factor in that they are already under contract to CBS radio, and it's not a show that costs CBS any additional money. These guys are already getting paid, so it might make sense to use them on-air somewhere.

I don't know enough about Junkies to say whether they would work in middays. Some shows are built to grab you immediately, others are something you need to listen to a while. Plus that seems like it might be a pretty radical lineup change, though I think trying to get O&A live on does make a lot of sense. But i think the Junkies have done middays before, right?

[cthomer5000]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

what are the chances WJFK runs O&A live from 6-9 and then give the Junkies 10-2? It would be interesting to see what wins out, the Junkies' egos or their collective wish to sleep late.

what would they do between 9-10am?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

But i think the Junkies have done middays before, right?

Yep, when WHFS flipped, the Junks went back to WJFK for 10-1 middays right after Howard to be the eventual successor since Howard had recently announced his deal w/ Sirius. IIRC, the Junks were getting upset over having to wait until 10:15, 10:30, sometimes later for Howard's show to end before they could start, so JFK ended the Stern show at 9:58AM sharp so the Junkies could start on time. Howard was pissed, but had no more pimp-hand since he was leaving.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by wade moore

Actually, that seems quite feasible to me... I don't think Junkies would like it, but who has more power? I'd say O&A...

I don't know at this point. Although as whacked out as the radio business is just about anything is possible but to be honest, I've seen/heard a lot more speculation about stations wanted to dump O&A than I have about something like putting them in mornings in DC. Their return has been a disappointment almost everywhere and I just don't think that'll be the direction that JFK goes.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

what would they do between 9-10am?

D'oh. Meant to say 9-1. But that still leaves the 2 hours before Don and Mike open.

Bring back Big O & Dukes!

[cthomer5000]

FYI, they are also, with 100% certainty, replacing the 7pm-10pm show.

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

I don't know at this point. Although as whacked out as the radio business is just about anything is possible but to be honest, I've seen/heard a lot more speculation about stations wanted to dump O&A than I have about something like putting them in mornings in DC. Their return has been a disappointment almost everywhere and I just don't think that'll be the direction that JFK goes.

Fair point.. since I'm not in that market anymore and now I can't even listen during work on the computer, I'm pretty out of touch with what the feel for that style of talk is in the DC Area...

I forgot that the Junks did do mid-day for awhile, now that you mention it I think they were pretty successful there.. they certainly I think would have to do a slightly different show, but not dramatically different - and they've made the adjustment before..

The only thing I think is probably relatively certain at JFK is that D&M won't shift time slots, but I can't be 100% certain of that even..

[DeToxRox]

God damn do I miss the Junkies.

Does Cowboy Todd still call in?

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by DeToxRox

God damn do I miss the Junkies.

Does Cowboy Todd still call in?

You can stream them live from 1067freefm.com in the mornings, or download daily podcasts of their shows, donkey. As for Cowboy Todd, he moved to Tennessee or Kentucky to get away from the police - he had one run in after another with the law - and so he calls very rarely. He is still a trainwreck of epic proportions you'll be glad to know.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by wade moore

The only thing I think is probably relatively certain at JFK is that D&M won't shift time slots, but I can't be 100% certain of that even..

Not only are they not shifting slots, they are done once their contract is over (at the end of the year?). D&M and WJFK management have been at odds for some time now and I think both parties cannot wait to part ways. The last book had D&M sinking to 10th in the ratings, so I doubt JFK will be sad to see them go. Maybe thats where the Junkies can go, afternoon drive...

[wade moore]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

Not only are they not shifting slots, they are done once their contract is over (at the end of the year?). D&M and WJFK management have been at odds for some time now and I think both parties cannot wait to part ways. The last book had D&M sinking to 10th in the ratings, so I doubt JFK will be sad to see them go. Maybe thats where the Junkies can go, afternoon drive...

2008 (end of?) is when their contract is up... I think 10th is actually up from what they were before..

And the only thing for sure I think (according to what they say on the air) is that Don is leaving after their contract is up.. I've heard speculation that Rob and Mike may continue/do a show (which I think would be a train wreck of epic proportions if they did - and I've been a loyal D&M guy since the WAVA days).

[DeToxRox]

Originally Posted by Toddzilla

You can stream them live from 1067freefm.com in the mornings, or download daily podcasts of their shows, donkey. As for Cowboy Todd, he moved to Tennessee or Kentucky to get away from the police - he had one run in after another with the law - and so he calls very rarely. He is still a trainwreck of epic proportions you'll be glad to know.

Excellent. I'll make sure to load up on their podcasts. I remember a little kid from Detroit who'd always call in except he said he was like 20. Ahh, the good old days.

[Toddzilla]

Originally Posted by cthomer5000

FYI, they are also, with 100% certainty, replacing the 7pm-10pm show.

Nice call...

* Bill O'Rly is gone from WJFK effective 7/16, to be replaced by Jim Rome
* Big O & Dukes is taking over the 7-10PM slot, replacing Unzipped whatever that was.

The Junkies announced all of this this morning, and it was also reported on dcrtv.com.

w00t

[wade moore]

Jim Rome?

Seriously, how hard is it to put a show in mid-days that fits with the rest of the talent?