OT - Bush Commutes Libby's Sentence

[NoMyths]

*shakes head*

Link: Bush commutes sentence for Libby

Full Text:
Bush commutes sentence for Libby
THE ASSOCIATED PRESS
July 2, 2007, 5:52 PM EDT

President Bush commuted the sentence of former aide I. Lewis "Scooter" Libby Monday, sparing him from a 2 1/2-year prison term in the CIA leak case.

Bush left intact a $250,000 fine and two years probation for Libby, according to a senior White House official, who spoke on condition of anonymity because the decision had not been announced.

Bush's move came hours after a federal appeals panel ruled Libby could not delay his prison term in the CIA leak case. That decision put the pressure on the president, who had been sidestepping calls by Libby's allies to pardon the former chief of staff to Vice President Dick Cheney.

Libby was convicted in March of lying to authorities and obstructing the investigation into the 2003 leak of CIA operative's identity. He was the highest-ranking White House official ordered to prison since the Iran-Contra affair.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Amazing.

First thing Bush has gotten right weeks.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Total crock.

[NoMyths]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Amazing.

First thing Bush has gotten right weeks.

Jon, I have to hear your explanation for this comment. Because it seems to undermine everything you claim to stand for from a legal standpoint (even if reinforcing your philosophical position).

[JPhillips]

Dear Bill Clinton,

About that perjury stuff, we really didn't mean any of it.

Signed,

Republicans

[DaddyTorgo]

that's frigging ridiculous.

and yes, it was ridiculous when clinton pardoned his rich buddies too.

IMO presidential pardons are an absurd relic and need to go. across the board.

[Bearcat729]

[larrymcg421]

Bush is obviously continuing his quest to restore honor and integrity to the oval office. When they play old clips of him saying that, they should accompany it with a laugh track.

[Esquared1]

I've been silent too long on this matter. Here's. . what . . I .. . think. . .wait, those are some damn cute puppies! Hey little guy, how you doing? Aren't you just the cutest? Yes you are. Yes you are. YES YOU ARE!

[molson]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

that's frigging ridiculous.

and yes, it was ridiculous when clinton pardoned his rich buddies too.

IMO presidential pardons are an absurd relic and need to go. across the board.

Agreed, but both sides look retarded when they complain about the specific presidents involved every time there's a change in the office.

[DaddyTorgo]

Originally Posted by molson

Agreed, but both sides look retarded when they complain about the specific presidents involved every time there's a change in the office.

oh I complained about clinton and his fat-cat criminal campaign donor. And i'll complain about bush and his criminal crony.

[MrBug708]

At least it helps prision overpopulation

[KWhit]

Welcome to Hollywood!

Uh.. I mean, Washington!

[Senator]

Godspeed, felons.

[clintl]

Originally Posted by DaddyTorgo

IMO presidential pardons are an absurd relic and need to go. across the board.

I wouldn't go that far. But I would be in favor of a constitutional amendment taking away the right of presidents to pardon someone for crimes committed by someone working in their administration.

[cougarfreak]

Nothing like giving away a CIA agent, who protects our national security, that Bush supposedly holds so dear, then getting a pardon.

[clintl]

I think this is pretty damn funny, considering the comparisons between the pardon of Mark Rich and the commutation of Libby's sentence.

http://archives.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLI...inton.library/

Libby was Mark Rich's lawyer!

[Neon_Chaos]

Got to love America.

[SirFozzie]

Hell.. it wasn't like Bush was going to get anything done with his last 18 months in office anyway.. at least by doing it now, hopefully for republicans the furor has died down by then

[Swaggs]

Not a surprise, but a little sooner than expected.

Cute puppies, though.

[ISiddiqui]

Yeah, not a surprise. This administration is so corrupt, I would have been shocked if Bush let Libby spend a day in jail.

[Neon_Chaos]

Fox News is funny. I don't know why, but apparently, this is on par with the above news report, and is also plastered on the website's main page in big bold letter.:

hxxp://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,287784,00.html

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by NoMyths

Jon, I have to hear your explanation for this comment. Because it seems to undermine everything you claim to stand for from a legal standpoint (even if reinforcing your philosophical position).

Not too incongruous really, as long as you allow for the application of unusual circumstances to provide an unusual exception.

Seriously NM, I really do see where you're coming from & I do see where it could appear contradictory, but hopefully you'll understand that I don't believe an occasional exception under extraordinary conditions is occasionally called for. This seems like a good time for one of those to apply.

AFAIC, the biggest mistake made was if anyone "outted" her (quotations since she wasn't particularly secret to begin with). If they wanted to send a message to her/those around her, it should have been done with more traditional methods within that community. Considering the other possibilities - such as, just hypothetically of course, brake failure as an example - for anyone to have stood trial for anything remotely connected to this case as it actually played out strikes me as near the height of absurdity. It's within the authority of the President to act in this case, and I'm thankful that he did so in order to avoid such a ridiculous situation.

[Buccaneer]

...and they knew that Libby was just the fall guy.

[clintl]

He wasn't on trial for outting her. He was on trial for lying to the Grand Jury about what he knew. And he was unequivocally guilty of that.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

AFAIC, the biggest mistake made was if anyone "outted" her (quotations since she wasn't particularly secret to begin with). If they wanted to send a message to her/those around her, it should have been done with more traditional methods within that community. Considering the other possibilities - such as, just hypothetically of course, brake failure as an example - for anyone to have stood trial for anything remotely connected to this case as it actually played out strikes me as near the height of absurdity. It's within the authority of the President to act in this case, and I'm thankful that he did so in order to avoid such a ridiculous situation.

You support the death penalty for people that download music, and this guy is a convicted felon! I find it hard to believe that there is any philosophy behind it beyond a love for authoritarianism.

EDIT: Authoritarianism is a valid philosophy, but don't try and sugarcoat it as some kind of rule of law philosophy..

[Groundhog]

Standards + Standards

[JW]

Much ado about nothing. Politics as usual. Same old same old. Nothing has changed in DC.

No underlying crime ever proven, and the original leaker, Armitage, never prosecuted, though Fitzgerald knew who he was from the beginning.

[John Galt]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

EDIT: Authoritarianism is a valid philosophy,

No it's not. It really isn't.

[JPhillips]

Originally Posted by JW

Much ado about nothing. Politics as usual. Same old same old. Nothing has changed in DC.

No underlying crime ever proven, and the original leaker, Armitage, never prosecuted, though Fitzgerald knew who he was from the beginning.

Perjury is a crime. A serious crime. What this shows is that the President is willing to protect members of his administration from the full consequences of the law. This is an administration that has contempt for the rule of law.

From the Fitzgerald statement:

We comment only on the statement in which the President termed the sentence imposed by the judge as “excessive.” The sentence in this case was imposed pursuant to the laws governing sentencings which occur every day throughout this country. In this case, an experienced federal judge considered extensive argument from the parties and then imposed a sentence consistent with the applicable laws. It is fundamental to the rule of law that all citizens stand before the bar of justice as equals. That principle guided the judge during both the trial and the sentencing.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by JW

Much ado about nothing. Politics as usual. Same old same old. Nothing has changed in DC.

When was the last time a president in the middle of his term pardoned someone just convicted of perjury and obstruction of justice stemming from a criminal investigation into his own administration?

Originally Posted by JW

No underlying crime ever proven...

Perhaps partly because people were perjuring themselves and obstructing justice? Although I will concede that with Cheney's need for secrecy, Libby may just have perjured himself in order to hide Dick's favorite color.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by JonInMiddleGA

Not too incongruous really, as long as you allow for the application of unusual circumstances to provide an unusual exception.
Seriously NM, I really do see where you're coming from & I do see where it could appear contradictory, but hopefully you'll understand that I don't believe an occasional exception under extraordinary conditions is occasionally called for. This seems like a good time for one of those to apply.
.

I guess exceptional circumstances means protect your lying buddy. Nice convenient definition of extraordinary. The pardon power should be for grave miscarriages of justice, not this. It's been abused before Bush and it will be abused after Bush, but this is hardly an extraordinary circumstance. Rather unfortunately, it exposes your partisan leanings (not that they weren't known) for all to see.

[-Mojo Jojo-]

Originally Posted by JW

Much ado about nothing. Politics as usual. Same old same old. Nothing has changed in DC.

No underlying crime ever proven, and the original leaker, Armitage, never prosecuted, though Fitzgerald knew who he was from the beginning.

I fascinated by the idea that Patrick Fitzgerald is some kind of liberal partisan hack. Can someone please explain this to me?

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by Esquared1

I've been silent too long on this matter. Here's. . what . . I .. . think. . .wait, those are some damn cute puppies! Hey little guy, how you doing? Aren't you just the cutest? Yes you are. Yes you are. YES YOU ARE!

Awesome

SI

[sterlingice]

Originally Posted by John Galt

No it's not. It really isn't.

Yeah it is. I love a benevolent monarchy. It's the most efficient form of government out there. So long as I get to be the monarch

SI

[LloydLungs]

Originally Posted by Esquared1

I've been silent too long on this matter. Here's. . what . . I .. . think. . .wait, those are some damn cute puppies! Hey little guy, how you doing? Aren't you just the cutest? Yes you are. Yes you are. YES YOU ARE!

I love this post. I just thought it should be acknowledged. Continue on...

EDIT: Ah, turns out it just was. Maybe the puppies can take this thread over.

[JonInMiddleGA]

Originally Posted by clintl

He wasn't on trial for outting her. He was on trial for lying to the Grand Jury about what he knew.

Fair point. I was using sloppy shorthand, just figured it was the quickest description available & that most anybody in the conversation knew the various details.

[TroyF]

Wish he hadn't done it.Those who were consistent in wishing Clinton get the book thrown at him and that Libby get the same treatment for lying to a grand jury can stand over here in the "you aren't a flaming hypocrite line" Those who chose one or the other, please, go away. Just go away.

Lying to a grand jury should put you in prison. And you shouldn't be allowed to stay president. Clinton went through unscathed and Libby is going to do so as well. Both because apologists found ways to justify how it's ok to lie to a grand jury and that it's not that big of a deal because of special circumstances that negate how horrible the lying is.

Sickening, but not surprising.

[Fonzie]

When I rise to become Benevolent Dictator Of the United States Of Fonzie this kind of thing will never happen. Primarily because I'll do away with the courts.

By the way, I'll be looking for good people to run my cabinet. Any takers?

[King of New York]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

When I rise to become Benevolent Dictator Of the United States Of Fonzie this kind of thing will never happen. Primarily because I'll do away with the courts.

By the way, I'll be looking for good people to run my cabinet. Any takers?

I would like to be Secretary of Agriculture so that I can clean up the so-called "Amusement Park" industry and the merchants of death who operate it.

[Fonzie]

Originally Posted by King of New York

I would like to be Secretary of Agriculture so that I can clean up the so-called "Amusement Park" industry and the merchants of death who operate it.

Done. Serve me with loyalty and you will be richly rewarded.

Anybody else?

[Young Drachma]

Originally Posted by George W. Bush
Well Done, Thou Good and Faithful Servant.

Is anyone surprised?

[Groundhog]

Originally Posted by Fonzie

Done. Serve me with loyalty and you will be richly rewarded.

Anybody else?

Put me down as Secretary of Gettin Down and Dirty Wit Da Ladies.

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by Esquared1

I've been silent too long on this matter. Here's. . what . . I .. . think. . .wait, those are some damn cute puppies! Hey little guy, how you doing? Aren't you just the cutest? Yes you are. Yes you are. YES YOU ARE!

xkcd.com

[MrBigglesworth]

Originally Posted by TroyF

Wish he hadn't done it.Those who were consistent in wishing Clinton get the book thrown at him and that Libby get the same treatment for lying to a grand jury can stand over here in the "you aren't a flaming hypocrite line" Those who chose one or the other, please, go away. Just go away.

Lying to a grand jury should put you in prison. And you shouldn't be allowed to stay president. Clinton went through unscathed and Libby is going to do so as well. Both because apologists found ways to justify how it's ok to lie to a grand jury and that it's not that big of a deal because of special circumstances that negate how horrible the lying is.

Sickening, but not surprising.

Libby was convicted of multiple felonies. Clinton was acquitted by the Senate and was never convicted of anything. I don't think you have to treat them the same to not be considered a 'flaming hypocrite'. They are two different situations.

[Sgran]

At least we got Paris Hilton.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by cougarfreak

Nothing like giving away a CIA agent, who protects our national security, that Bush supposedly holds so dear, then getting a pardon.

Libby has not been pardoned.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by MrBigglesworth

Clinton was acquitted by the Senate and was never convicted of anything

Let alone lying to a grand jury. He lied in a deposition about sex in a civil lawsuit, not a national security matter involving the criminal investigation of the potential outing of a CIA agent, involving multiple lies and attempts to obstruct justice.

[Vinatieri for Prez]

Originally Posted by st.cronin

Libby has not been pardoned.

This is true. And important. I still don't like it though, nor the 100 or so pardons Clinton (and the presidents before him) handed out at the end of his term.

[st.cronin]

Originally Posted by Vinatieri for Prez

This is true. And important. I still don't like it though, nor the 100 or so pardons Clinton (and the presidents before him) handed out at the end of his term.

I don't like it either, but consider that it was pretty much assumed by everybody that he would, in fact, be pardoned. I know that at least once on this forum I predicted that Libby wouldn't be pardoned.